Banter for 2014. Positive/Negative

[Frank Maxwell]

2014 has arrived in style and the main topic for 2013 has been the IAC and Video Clubs. Last year I took the trouble of doing a bit of research with the issue of membership regards Video Clubs. I had the wonderful experience of joining a club and leaving after implementing a few ideas.
Any form of club will have issue with membership. Some are healthy and some are struggling.
So lets look at Video Clubs the positive and negative.
Negative first. In the 60s it was a must to belong to a cine club if you had a movie camera and later video club.
There are three words which I have heard belonging to clubs. "Don't Have Time", Very Busy" "No ThankYou I Rather Not. These are words used when trying to get a project of the ground in a club.
You join and pay your fees and then when you attend you pay a fee again every time you attend. If I attend 50 weeks and Joe Blocks only 25 weeks who is supporting the club?.
What sort of videos are made to capture the publics attention in the area one lives?
No unedited video should be shown at club nights unless requested or the evening has penciled in a show of unedited material.
Certainly less screen watching. Every time I attended a screen show was a must. I have a television at home for that sort of entertainment.
Is it better to have meetings every week or every other week?..
Positive Ideas.
Alter video clubs to VIDEO and Computer CLUBS. PC-APPLE.
Membership on the computer front is healthy with old and young.
Stop making little videos and see if there is a historic event which happen in ones town and make a video and publicise the production.
Have Tee-Shirts or jacket advertising the club every-time you video in public.
Cut viewing time down in club nights. New members will not be impressed. (I certainly was not and kept saying to myself, "Not Again")
FINALLY.
O.K I have said my peace and many will disagree with my statements. Rightly So.
I enjoyed in my life time belonging to a cine/video club. Today it is to old fashion, also I'm a outspoken person which dont mixs well in that format.
Today I communicate all over the world via video link with people and we help each other out regards editing with softwares.Younger video makers have a different outlook, they want to make feature film on a small scale and their hobbies. There motto is "LESS TALK MORE ACTION".
Please note these are my opinion and I do not wish to offend any person or any club.

[TimStannard]

A Happy New Year to All!
Quite a nice little summary, Frank. Thanks for posting. I think you make some good points though there are some which I think need thinking through further.

On your negatives:
Annual membership plus an attendance fee. I'm not sure all clubs work this way. We do. But the attendance fee is £1 and nominally covers the tea/biscuits. Those who rarely attend - we're gratef for their annual membership fees. In your example it is you who is contributing more to the club financially, but you are getting 50 weeks out whereas Joe is only getting 25 (and you're not paying twice as much as him)
Less screen watching? A difficult one. Many of our members (and those of other clubs I've attended - though not all) seem to have little interest in being part of making a film. They want a night out. They are often the wives (sorry if that seems sexist, but they're never the husbands in my experience) of more active members. They want to be entertained. They want to sit and watch films. If you reduce this facility too much they will cease to attend - perhaps not a great loss, but the knock-on effect is that it makes it more difficult for the husband to attend. When we moved towards a series of more "technical" or workshop type evenings we saw a decline in the numbers attending. Having said that, those who did attend seemed to enjoy the meetings all the more.

On your positives:
Local events. These sorts of films really do have limited appeal. I know that Huddersfield, who run a very successfull, public show which runs for five evenings have as one of their highlights a 30+ min newsreel of events in and around Huddersfield. We watch their showreel every year (we do a swap). It holds little interest for us. Similarly we got invloved with the local Borough council a couple of years back and we found we were being asked to film several events. After a few sessions it became obvious they were just looking to use us as a cheap method of massaging their egos. That's not to say some local events cannot have broader appeal. But the Mayor opening the newly refubished shopping mall is not of any interest. If you want useful, interesting stuff which will have wider appeal and historical value, it needs to be treated like any serious documentary. Interview the people proposing it, the people opposing it, the contractors, the people who use the previous incarnation - and ideally the same people when they use the new one. This takes years - it's not simply a case of bowl up with a couple of cameras and a mic.

Tee-shirts and jackets (we've got caps) - ABSOLUTELY. Publicity is the most important aspect. So much is competing for people's spare time. Take every opportunity to publicise the club.

The computer aspect? Very difficult. People use a number of different NLEs and I, for one, do not want to disassemble my computer, take it to our meeting place and re-assemble it just to demonstrate a couple fo things to the three other people who use Sony Vegas (one of whom will already understand what I am demonstrating). Technical evenings can (and should?) only really be done at people's houses (or "studios" if we want to feel big about it)

Stop making little videos - I'm not entirely sure what you mean here, but if you're referring to the lousy one-liner comedies that clubs seem to make, I disagree. Whilst they might not really be fit for public consumption, I think they serve a real purpose. They teach all of us the importance of scriptwriting, planning, storyboarding, acting, angles, composition, lighting, sound - in fact everything to do with film making - not least of which is how to work with others as part of a team.

Most clubs I know report that some of their most successful nights are the "make a film in an evening" night - or variations thereof where perhaps only the actual shoot is on the night. The end result does not necessarily matter. I think the reason people like these so much is they et to see how other people work and are inspited to try things they might not have thought of before.

Enough!

And broadly I agree with you

[Frank Maxwell]

Nice one Tim.
Nice to get a perspective view. It least your opinions should encourage other members to express how they view there club.
I agree with the pound. But if you dont have Tea/Biscuits????? There are other ways to raise funds.
Anyway I have said enough. Its up to other members to have a say.

[Bob Lorrimer]

The problem is that We are Amateurs...and we do try to make films as 'lovers of film craft' ... however, although we love doing it, most of us are not very good at it.

If a younger Member has a real Talent, Flair and Feeling for Film...he will almost certainly move on into the Professional arena...which leaves the rest of us filming, "The Hanging Baskets of Annecy!"

We are all at different levels of talent and this can generally be discerned within the IAC BIAFF Competitions. We all have limitations to which our natural ability will never transcend.

I think young people are more adept at assembling footage than we are...they have a greater affinity for media, pace and computing than I will ever possess and their natural window for their efforts are "online".

The aging Club membership issue is an ongoing Conundrum but at least there are attempts being made to address it......a younger or even (dare I say it) the middle aged sector can be attracted but holding on to them is another matter.

Bob

[Frank Maxwell]

Thanks for those comments Bob. I have been doing amateur film/video for over 40 years and teach youngsters the art of film making.
They want to learn but dont want to make 5 minute video's or better still the word I was looking for is..Time control of lenght of video.
You may be able to do certain things but you got the knowledge to pass it on in a club if you have younger members.
When I was young I joined a club but did not stay as we moved on. I got into film film industry but still supported a club.
Today youngsters learn the media craft to get a job. But times have altered and it is very hard to get in.
Todays issue is how to attract new members to clubs and keep them.
Which I have covered, and many other forum members.
Belonging to a club was a wonderful experience and the older generation had the knowledge and skill using the video camera. Plus all other things to make a club work. But it needs a injection of new members like most clubs on all fronts of having or running a club.

[ned c]

Most forms of clubs are history and especially video making clubs; stop trying to resuscitate what is obviously moribund. Clubs will fail eventually because there is no one willing to take on the task of managing a structured organisation providing a series of meetings that do not address the apparent purpose of the organisation: making movies. For most of us making a film is a team effort; starting with an idea, research, a script, a crew, a shooting plan, post production and finding an audience. The young understand this completely and cut to the chase without bothering with evenings watching partly made holiday films and supping on tea and biscuits. They will not be joining clubs to spend evenings with people old enough to be their grandparents and a very different view of film. The best help we can give to young film makers is to support their efforts with financing; help with securing location access (an older person is sometimes more effective then a younger one), being a resource, in fact an opportunity to be a producer, but we are in the background of their work. In 2013 I garnered three producer credits and was replaced as cinematographer on one production (we parted friends and I kept my producer credit). It is obvious reading the posts that the young do not need the old form of club based n-c film making whilst the clubs are forlornly trying to attract them.

Perhaps we should learn from the young and work with friends on productions we like and not bothering with those time wasting evenings of tea and biscuits. All the more reason for a strong IAC!

ned c

[Michael Slowe]

Ned, I wrote some weeks ago that I thought the IAC could represent THE organisation that supported and encouraged independent (non commercial) film making, here and abroad, confining the major part of their efforts to that end. I was told that this is not what the members want, they want sociability (nothing wrong with that) and that club meetings are popular. There is a feeling that to get too serious about film making is to tread too close to commercialism, surely not?

On another topic, Ned, did they fire you because you are too old to hold a camera or has your sight affected your focus? Never mind, I'm sure you make a great producer, and you have the use of the notorious 'casting couch'.

[Lee Prescott]

Hi Guys,

Oh lordy!!!! Michael S made me laugh and I hope Ned sees the funny side of it too!.........

On another topic, Ned, did they fire you because you are too old to hold a camera or has your sight affected your focus? Never mind, I'm sure you make a great producer, and you have the use of the notorious 'casting couch' --- posted by Michael.

That "Casting Couch" bit made me screech! (I worked in an extremely well known Production Company - now distant by some 46 years but yeah, I'll never forget how certain people - still daren't mention em - utilised that "Casting Couch". Sex was always a "tradable commodity"!!!)!

However, on a more relevant topic - Clubs and membership, especially with regard to Young People, about which a lot is posted on here but seemingly with little if any reported results. To date, up to Christmas anyway, we here in my
immediate locality have met with some success BUT I have to state that it cannot be relied upon in continuity. Most Young people have many "irons in the fire" - not surprising, it was ever thus. Today they have far more "attractions" or should I say "distractions" available to them. Success was engendered by being able to have the 'teenage 'Issue' of neighbours and friends initially in acting rolls they then brought some of their interested mates along and became interested in what I would call "Constructive Video Production"....However their attitudes, interest and responses varied widely, making planning a bit difficult! Amongst all of 'em - no females - which I have always found puzzling. Maybe we should have installed a "couch" or two for them!

A certain Head Teacher here told me that " 'teenage students only have around a 10 minute attention spell". I was aware that applied to young children, it always did - but 'teenage students??? Certainly the "interest application" needs to be varied
throughout a subject but film production and acting a role surely provides that?

Happy New Year to all. LEE.

[ned c]

Sadly the casting couch is where I catch up on my afternoon nap these days. Although I can still just about hold my camera and my eyes are holding up we disagreed on the lighting style and I was unhappy with what the director wanted and as it was a "fun" production I didn't need to feel uncomfortable - I have written up the experience and will send to Garth who may have space for it in F&VM. It was also my first narrative shoot with a large sensor video camera so I can plead that my short term memory was a problem with setting up.

We need to more clearly define what we mean by "young"; the very active young film makers here are in their mid 20s to 30s and have to fit their film making into busy lives but are very dedicated. They run two guerrilla festivals a year with many entries and large audiences without any formal club structure. Teenagers are often a pain and to be avoided. To many here I suppose 50 would be young and certainly welcome into clubs.

Best wishes to all for 2014

ned c

[Lee Prescott]

Hi Folks:

Gotta say, (using one of my Americanisms) that Ned's posting - Jan 05th. does surprise me with his remark by the word "Young"! Here I refer to guys aged 20 mainly under. I'm further surprised that Ned includes specifically people in their 30s....at that rate I should still be running up mountains never mind the stairs or "Casting Couch"!!!! Also Ned says that
"'Teenagers are often a pain and to be avoided"! That is sad!

More seriously tho' in my wider area although we do have, at times, " 'teenage trembler troubles". I have never come up against any of this! - True. - Have I been fortunate or is it the way one deals with and talks with them? I suspect the latter!....I am now able to say this: one of the Young guys, (18+), talented in some ways and we were hoping to retain his interest, has "flown the coop" and gone almost straight from his college into full time film production in London. We all await to see how long it is before his name appears in the inevitable list of "droning credits"! ----- Oddly, he came from a family background that had run into trouble!

As 2014 progresses I hope it does well, for all.

Cheers: LEE.

[Peter Copestake]

Pendle MM is a small club, 14 regular attenders, originating more than 50 years ago. We only meet once a month as this is all most of our members want, but two belong to other clubs which meet weekly. For what it's worth we have an annual sub that covers IAC membership, insurance etc and an attendance charge for the room hire and tea & biccies although the calculation is not quite as specific as that.
We have officers and a committee nominally, in practice a chairperson, treasurer and secretary and a member who looks after our simple web site, but all decisions are taken by the membership. It is very rarely that we need to take a vote. The active members make a few films as individuals but we cooperate on big event shoots.
We are all good friends supporting one another as best we can both on film making and private lives.
Our experience of making a splash locally, see, for example, our snippet in Northern Club News in the current FVM, is that it is totally unproductive at attracting new members. Producing the borough's film for the Portas Pilot Project on high street regeneration, and quite unconnected with that, a piece on North West Today, repeated on North West Tonight extolling what we do, likewise had no effect. We do about 6 - 8 shows a year to Probus, Rotary, church groups etc
Local people are interested in the films we make, especially about the local area, but not about doing anything like it themselves.
My point in boring you with all this is to say that all clubs are different, that what may work in one area may not work in another and that what matters is that there are enough of us to record people and places now as neither will stay the same and these records are what will last.