Anybody editing in HDV?

[ned c]

I have now made a number of "Blu Ray" discs using Toast Titanium and writing to regular DVDs, I can get about 30 minutes on a regular DVD. There is a plug in for Toast v9. Works perfectly. But will Blu Ray survive? The players/recorders movies and blank media are all far too expensive for wider distribution, I know that time will bring them down but I don't think that time is on Blu Ray's side.

Dave, why do you distrust long GOPformats? I have been using HDV for 2 years without any more than my usual problems (usually me) when using SD. I use a Mac and editing in FCP works fine, I also use FCE with equally good results.

How do you archive your work? As the use of various cards extends this (P2, SxS etc) this seems to be the challenge.

ned c
ned c

[daveswan]

Ned, hi...
My main beef is that if you get drop-outs on a I frame you've messed up a whole GOP sequence, but beyond that its a conviction that such formats are best left for delivery where a careful 2-pass VBR encode can be performed, rather than the cam trying to guess what's coming next. DVCProHD also gives me a 4:2:2 colour sampling and relatively mild compression.
RE: BluRay, it's still very early days yet, at this point DVD players were still a lot more expensive than the cheapest BluRay decks (£250) are now. Granted the Disks are overpriced, hopefully they will fall soon (Yeah, right!), remember DVDs weren't exactly cheap either.
Beyond that, I don't expect Blu-Ray to last as long as DVD (Which is still going strong) before it is eclipsed by Holographic Disks, giving (I hope) even higher definition (2k? 4k??) and bit rates, perhaps even to moving TIFF sequences).
Cheers,
Dave

[Wilmot]

XP
Laptop duel core
Prem Elements 3
Output as m2t files on to hard drive
Elements can't output in HD format to tape however m2t files imported into Magix Edit Pro can output to tape.
In future when Blue-ray use expands, I'll output to Blue-ray.

[Dave Watterson]

For those - like me - who are not up to date with HDV terminology, M2T is a HDV video compression format. Essentially it is a "transport stream" for MPEG-2 with a 15 frame GOP.

Each camcorder manufacturer has its own slightly different "transport stream" which can cause problems. Most conversion software can now handle most of these variations. I believe a few editing packages can work with M2T files.

Of course HDV cameras can "downsize" to SD and normal formats for loading into edit systems until we all catch up with the technology!

Dave

[stingman]

You would think by now that they would have got formats and compatability right. I HATE haveing to save a film in one format and then haveing to convert it another format. I can have the same film comming out of my ears with different formats and filesizes.

I`m still looking forward to editing in HD when I get all the gear. As you know Dave, i`m STILL saving

Be good.....

Stingman

[billyfromConsett]

Since I asked the question, I've found out plenty. Re Panasonic's AVCHD codec, many apps can edit it - ie Apple’s iMovie, Apple’s Final Cut Pro 6.0.1, Apple's Final Cut Express, Adobe Premiere CS4, Sony Vegas, Grass Valley Edius PRO v4.5, Pinnacle Studio Plus 11, Nero-7 Premium Reloaded, Ulead Video Studio 11 Plus and DVD Movie Factory 6.
The online video demo for their AG-HMC151E camera is about the most professional I've seen as an online advert.

I'll be getting the Adobe CS4 suite, so whether it's HDV or AVCHD, I'm sorted.
How to distribute my hi-def movies isn't so straightforward. And also I've heard people say, straight after watching a full blown HDV movie, that they can't tell much difference. So the new formats won't be for everyone.

[ned c]

I now have a Blu-Ray player, Sony BDP-S350, which needed the software upgrade to play MPEG4/AVCHD H.264 dics I create using Toast. The upgrade method is outlined in the most recent issue of F&VM.

The results are STUNNING on a 52 inch Sony Bravia LCD so forget on any SD based camcorder/software, the future is HD, perhaps full raster as is now being made available with the Panasonic AVCHDCAM system. These are exciting (but expensive) times.

If any of the posters/readers can play 1080 60i discs will happily make them available.

ned c

[Roy]

Did you know that Youtube is screening selected HD videos in the HD format. Try clicking onto URL below. It might work but I don't guarrantee it.

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=_36p_n_27eQ#

I have checked and the URL I have given does work. The producer has other videos in widescreen HD available to you when you click on. The videos look good even in normal quality on Youtube. I can't tell what it is like in HD as my computer is to slow. Perhaps someone will let me know.

Merry xmas to you all Roy

[billyfromConsett]

My first HDV movie, on miniDV is going to our club tonight. We'll see how or projector handles it..

[Stephen]

Nice one Billy.....

as you know I was in the audience tonight !

it was quite stunning quality.....

a brilliant idea to show off HD

great compositions and a storyline that had the hairs on the back of the neck standing up......




looking forward to more !!!!!!


you are a credit to our club man !

[billyfromConsett]

That's very touching, but to me, the best thing about being able to put on a film like that one, was being given the honour of filming the subjects - and being left to roam free with the editing rig - knowing there will be some happy faces at the end of it.

Thanks for that very kind comment.

[PeterVideo]

I don't know why everyone is getting hung upon Blu-ray discs as the only way to save and output HD- if you have a laptop which will display HD through an HDMI or DVI output and play HD video files eg Quicktime HD or Window WMV HD - then this is a good alternative
Peter Kidman
FFM

[Dave Watterson]

Careful folks ...

if you have a laptop which will display HD

- which not all will do. In fact cheap ones may stumble a bit playing SD video.

For reliable use this way you need a laptop whose hard drive spins at 7,200rpm at least. Many (?most) don't have such a drive because it eats more battery power.

Playing films from computer is a good idea ... when it works.

At a couple of UNICA festivals all the entries have been put on to hard drives and played from there. It makes cuing up a thing of the past because they can start almost as soon as you click the key. It also means promos, intros and other odd bits of film can be played without noticeable delay. But the technical team at UNICA always have the tapes and DVDs ready to fall back on in case of problems.

It is also important to know what you are doing when setting up a playback computer. There are lots of low-level services that you could/should shut down. You don't want network/virus checker/email or other messages popping up. You don't want any program trying to "phone home" for updates. Basically you want to devote all the system to the task when showing movies. Of course after the show you need to turn some of them on again ...

It is a promising approach but not quite so simple as it might sound.

Dave the depressing doubter!

[daveswan]

My old Dell lapie plays HD movies up to 35 Mbps, even from its own hard drive. It did have a 5400 rpm drive, now it has a 7200, but even the old one was good for 25-30 Mbps. Note this wasn't HDV, but "1080p D cinema" from Sorrensen Squeeze, the source footage being DVCProHD.
The specs are 2.16 GHz dual core, 2GB RAM, and two 1920x1200 displays.
Dave

[billyfromConsett]

That dell laptop sounds a bit different to the dell equipment I seem to work with. Rock stable computers, that's probably why the NHS use so many of them, but not what I'd call tuned beasts.