IAC DISCUSSION FORUMS

What do you guys recommend ?
i have been doing a lot of research..but its like a mine field ... lots to choose from...

John

I assume that you are meaning a field sound recorder that is one to use when you are out on location

Tascan and Zoom are the two makes that spring to mind

Depends how much you want to pay, John. The Zoom H4 is a mighty popular unit as it takes XLRs directly. The Zoom H2 I reviewed in Positive Image gives amazing quality for the price. But all the manufacturers want your business, so Olympus, Sony, Tascam, Zoom, Edirol, Philips all make excellent recorders these days.

tom.

I bought a zoom 1 recorder very cheap from Ebay and find it is excellent both for commentaries and on camera for location recording. Actually you can plug other mics. into it if you wish. I've used it with a Senheisser connected to it. When it came to voice overs I found no difference in the quality between the expensive Senheisser and the reasonable cheap Zoom 1. If you've got big hands you could find the control buttons on the Zoom a bit awkward to use.

thanks lads.... as said above its like a mine field... some of the other guys recommend the Tascam DR100 mk2 it comes in at about £295.00 it also has 2 x XLR points which means my RODE NTG2 will plug straight in without using to many different connectors

yes col..its for location shots, I have been told that most camera's audio is not up to scratch for short film productions....thats what i have been told...(I look blankly into space)

one thing that does worry me is, how easy is it to sync sound to film.... ?

John,
I own an H2 (on Tom's recommendation) and can confirm it is excellent. However, I've also used an H4n and if the £100 prce difference is not a major issue it is well worth it for three reasons: (in no particular order) Build quality, better menu system, XLRs. If size is an issue (ie you want to conceal it upon a person and plug in a lavalier - then the H1 is probably the best bet. (Of the Zoom range. I have no experience of others apart from Olympic "dictation" machines which are not suitable.

john ingham wrote: one thing that does worry me is, how easy is it to sync sound to film.... ?

This is easy so long as you remember one simple rule:

Set camera and recorder recording.
Make a very short, sharp, loud noise. Traditionally this would be a clapperboard, but a handclap will suffice.

This will create a peak in the audio waveforms in your NLE and you simply line up these peaks.

If you are filming "long form" (ie a 20 minute interview or a play), the trick is to leave both tools recording: don't pause or turn off. Pull both items into your NLE and sync before chopping up and editing. Syncing lots of little clips is much more tedious.

If you do have lots of clips to sync, a product called "Plural Eyes" apparently does a good job. I've never used it but our deputy chairman swears by it.

Nore: a caveat to my "long form" comment. There is some suggestion that over time the sync can slip a little. My experience it was only one frame every 10-15 minutes when I was recording to MiniDV tape. I haven;t noticed any problem recording AVCHD to SD cards though.

I use a little Marrantz pro recorder set to 24/48 for filming in dual mono mode, so one channel is about 12dB lower than the other. That way, if one channel overloads, the other is still usable.

The clapper board is still the best way to go, as you can keep an easy log of shot and take.

I *think* that modern cams recording to memory card are more likely to maintain sync. When I did our carol service (24/28 stereo) I had a 1hr 45 min contiuous take, and the footage on our Canon XF100 was still in perfect sync at the end. I put a head and tail board on to check this, and also to sync our "B" cam, a sony A1E as there was a tape change hallf way through.

I use a Zoom H2n in conjunction with a BeachTek DXA-2T mini to XLR adaptor. The BeachTek can also be used with a video camera that does not have XLR inputs. Like Dave I use a clapper board. I have done several sound recording gigs for local users of DSLRs with no problems of loss of synch. I record as .wav files at 48 kHz; save to a CD and deliver to the editor.

ned c

Once again lads ..many many thanks..lots of food for thought,

it seems everyone agrees with the clapper board system....
A friend of mine has just purchased the Roland r26 and has said i can do a test with using my camera and the rode NTG2 and the rode NTG2 with the Roland r26... this should be an interesting experiment..

my camera's audio records in either Dolby digital or lanier PMC..(i think thats right) i have the choice between the two.... i will make a video showing the difference when we do this... I know nothing about audio..apart from bad audio can ruin a good film

once again lads..thankyou so much.... this forum is worth its weight in gold

john ingham wrote: my camera's audio records in either Dolby digital or lanier PMC..(i think thats right) i have the choice between the two...

I suspect it's linear PCM (Pulse Code Modulation).
My limited understanding (from the options provided when creating video DVDs) is that Dolby is more compressed. This is great for fitting more on your DVD. It's more of a delivery format than an editing format. You may find you can hear little or no difference between the two formats (though the audiophiles inevitably claim there's a world of difference) but, as with everything digital, the more information you have to work with the better if you're going to process it. So, unless you have very good reason not to, I'd recommend recording using PCM.

thanks Tim.... we are going to Dartmoor , (its only down the road) to collect some stock footage..i feel a need to film in the ancient forest.... so this will be a great test to see the difference in sound whilst out in the woods and by the running water of the Dart

It is possible that this summer I will make a film about a silversmith who lives in Launceston. It is not so far from Exmouth, Dartmoor,... There are pleasant holiday cottages near Tavistock, Okehampton, etc... My best friend Brian lives in Bridestowe near Okehampton. He can help me, but he is not a filmmaker. This time I will try to do everything myself because I can't afford a Belgian filmcrew (lighting, sound, etc.) to go to Devon and Cornwall with me . It's too far. My wife will be my only filmcrew unless I can find an English friend who is willing to record the sound: an interview of the silversmith while she is making something special.

Last year I exchanged my sennheiser for a different microphone : an AT825 One point X/Y Stereo Field recording microphone. I still wonder: have I done something stupid? The other one enjoys dealing. He is a "business man". I am too soft in business. Some English friends told me that I don't have to worry about it. Luckily the sound in my next film, having used this AT825 for the first time, seems to be excellent. I only wonder if I can use this AT825 outside. I still have to find out.

willy..please feel free to shout if you need any assistance..if i have any free time from work , i will be more than happy to meet and give you a hand..just let me know when you are coming over,

okehampton is just 30 miles away and very easy to get to as are the other places..

john

Fantastic, John! Many thanks. In "Film and Video Magazine" you can read that I asked Ron Prosser and his friends of the Haywards Heath Movie Makers (SERIAC) to help me last year. It was a great experience. Everything was filmed in a few hours.

Some years ago I made "Guernsey, I Love You!" together with Mary and Peter Rouillard from Guernsey and thanks to my "Say Wensleydale Cheese" Geoff Harrison of the Preston Movie Makers became one of my best British friends. I'm happy we will meet again in Chesterfield.

I think I will be in Okehampton in the month of June, but maybe it is better to tell you everything in a private mail in some weeks. Looe, Megavissy (or something like that), Lyme Regis (in Dorset)... I already stayed in those idyllic seaside resorts.

Sound Good Willy, I am sure we can make a plan