QUO VADIS? Where are we going?

Post by **Dave Watterson** » Wed Jul 18, 2012 1:17 am

In the Bristol Film & Video Society email group, Peter Heaven cited articles from TV-Bay (http://www.tv-bay.com/) and training courses offered locally. They dealt with the latest kit becoming available to shoot at incredible resolution and in 3D, when making programmes for domestic television sets. With his permission I copy the gist of his message here:

I must admit that there seems to be a conflict here; why the move towards HD (and even 4k - of which there are several standards! Let alone SHV) and 3D if, as they imply, we are all going to be watching 'films' on a daft little screen? Mad.

Just for the pixel-aware amongst us, the present '4k' standards are (from TV-bay magazine, which arrived this morning):

QFHD 4K and 4KTV 3840 x 2160 8.3M pixels 2.39:1 (2x 1920x1080 (HDTV))
Digital Cinema 4K 4096 x 1714 7.0M pixels 2.29:1
Digital Cinema 4K 4096 x 2160 8.8M pixels 1.85:1 (2x 2048 x1080 (2K))
Academy 4K 3656 x 2664 9.7M pixels 1.37:1
Full Aperture 4K 4096 x 3112 12.7M pixels 1.32:1

Not forgetting:

SHV 8K (Super Hi-Vision, aka UHDTV) 7680 x 4320 33.18M pixels.

Talent, please note that every spot and wrinkle will be in shown in superb detail...

Also note that '...there are no commercial graphics cards yet capable of going beyond 2560 x 1600', so editing might be a bit challenging!

Still want to buy a new telly?!
------------------------------------------------

Are we in danger of being carried away by technology? - Dave

Roy1 · Post by **Roy1** » Wed Jul 18, 2012 7:59 am

All gimmicks to make someone money. All the advances in technology doesn't make uninteresting content of a film/video suddenly interesting. Arguably a high percentage of people besotted by new technology do not make interesting films/videos that appeal to a wide audiance. Only my opinion, but I'm entitled to it, as is people who disagree.

tom hardwick · Post by **tom hardwick** » Wed Jul 18, 2012 11:52 am

You've defined capitalism: All gimmicks to make someone money. This attitude is what has taken us from Standard-8 to Super-8, from VHS to DVD, from 2D to 3D and from HD to 4K.

I'm all for it. It means I can indulge myself in my hobby knowing that I can capture, edit, project and keep outstandingly, gob-smackingly good footage, and all for relatively little money.

tom.

FredD · Post by **FredD** » Fri Jul 20, 2012 6:10 pm

I have just pre-ordered a Black Magic Designs 2.5K Cinema Camera.
2.5K sensor, 13 stops of dynamic range and 12-bit RAW uncompressed and compressed file formats.
Don't know how I am going to ingest and edit RAW uncompressed data yet, but that is all part of the fun !
Suddenly I am very excited about this new challenge, and looking forward to producing some 'jaw dropping'
picture quality content !

Peter Copestake · Post by **Peter Copestake** » Fri Jul 20, 2012 8:10 pm

16.64 x 14.04mm, interesting format/aspect, Fred D.
Peter C.

FredD · Post by **FredD** » Sat Jul 21, 2012 12:23 pm

More info here Peter :

http://www.blackmagic-design.com/produc ... techspecs/

ned c · Post by **ned c** » Sat Jul 21, 2012 4:19 pm

http://www.zacuto.com/shootout-revenge- ... t-part-two

Here you can see a comparison of the results from the latest cameras ranging from a relatively inexpensive DSLR and iPhone to $100,000 plus Sony, Arri and Red. You can also listen to a lot of cinematographers commenting. However; it is interesting that the evaluations were subjective and no camera was a clear winner the inexpensive DSLR scoring quite well against the heavyweights. What I conclude from this is that the cinematographer is more important than the camera; the creatives; writer, director and actors are at the heart of film and make or break it. I also conclude that if you shoot a whole film on a cheap camera with careful set ups then the audience will be unaware of the price of the equipment if there is a good tale told well. One of the problems with short film festivals is that we get to see a number of films quickly and variations in technical quality are obvious.

FredD; let us know how you get on with your BM camera; are using the PL or Canon mount? I saw the demos at NAB and was impressed.

It's good to keep up with the technology but even better to be close to creatives who write; direct; act and tell the stories.

ned c

FredD · Post by **FredD** » Sat Jul 21, 2012 4:49 pm

Hi Ned,

I have a nice collection of Canon and Zeiss fast primes ready to go, so will be using the EF mount.

Fred D

col lamb · Post by **col lamb** » Mon Jul 23, 2012 3:17 pm

Great potential for semi and full pro use and for viewing on a really big screen.

That said have you tried to edit 4k footage?

A professional friend let me have some footage taken on his 4k camcorder and even my all singing and dancing PC struggled to edit it. Edius 6 was totally useless and Premiere CS5.5 just about managed it. The friend concerned took about six months harassing GV to get them to admit that Edius and 4k and not yet ready for each other.

Next the IAC and Clubs will have to change all the kit used to view said 4k footage at a colossal cost.

Will 4k enable better movies to be made............No

Does HD make movies better..........No

So why chase technology?

I have a Panny TM900, a Panny 151 and a Canon 7D all capable of HD video so why should I change?

Especially when I would have to change my HD viewing kit as well....Oh...how much is that going to cost?

Roy1 · Post by **Roy1** » Mon Jul 23, 2012 4:05 pm

Well said Colin. It's what I have been saying for years, but the silent majority stay silent. All this new technology is fine for pro's, even semi pros and even hobbyists who are wealthy. I would hazard a guess that the average amature video maker can not afford in these times to experiment with expensive advancement, no matter how good it is.

ned c · Post by **ned c** » Mon Jul 23, 2012 4:52 pm

At this point in time 4K is an acquisition format for pros as editing presents obvious limitations. However; JVC have a hand held 4K camera at a reasonable (for a pro) price so brace yourself for the next round of consumer products; cameras, TVs etc to a 4K standard. The manufacturers have to constantly come up with something new as the current product sales decline; this has much to do with marketing at the consumer level and little to do with the desire for advanced technology. In the background are experiments with 6K and 8K. When DV first arrived few computers had the horsepower to handle it same when HD/HDV arrived, handling 4K will be routine in two years time! All it costs is money.

ned c

daveswan · Post by **daveswan** » Mon Oct 22, 2012 2:28 pm

FredD's not the only one. I have a m4/3 BMC on order from CVP. When I'll get it is anyone's guess. In the mean time i'm upgrading my workstation to handle 2.5k DNGs an Resolve. Now up to 16 gig ram, Quadro 600 for GUI and GTX 570 for Resolve.

Oh yes, and I nearly forgot, writing a script worth filming.

col lamb · Post by **col lamb** » Mon Oct 22, 2012 6:11 pm

Fred

Have you got the 4K camcorder?

If so how is it going?

col lamb · Post by **col lamb** » Mon Oct 22, 2012 6:37 pm

I thought that this topic would get a few more posts!!!!!!

4k or not 4k that is the question

Well for home use unless you want to view an image greater than 75" wide then a 4k TV or projector would be totally pointless

Up to this size a 1080p TV or projector is more than capable of not resolving a single pixel to a person with 20/20 vision

At 3m a person with reasonable eyesight can resolve an object about 0.9mm wide and at this distance a single pixel on a 50" TV is 0.5mm wide therefore you cannot see individual pixels at a typical viewing distance

Next limitation is bandwidth, we cannot get HD TV everywhere yet so it will be donkeys years before 4k TV will even be available in London yet alone to us in the sticks.

4k is for cinema and large screen viewing and for the foreseable future it will be just that

4k within IAC member clubs, why? Many are still on SD, 4k has no chance, it is a dead duck, as the perverbial Dodo etc. HD projected onto a 72" screen is more then good enough for the vast majority

HD will be the format of choice for many years to come, simply because we do not require the kit to view it.

4k camcorders may be the norm in a few years but even then I'd guess that there is an option of shooting in 1080i/p

At the end of the day a 4k camcorder is not going to improve a rubbish shooting technique, and even when a fantastic movie has been made you will need to see it on an IMAX screen to appreciate it (OK so I exaggerate a bit n the screen size here)

Mike Shaw · Post by **Mike Shaw** » Mon Oct 22, 2012 7:15 pm

I totally and absolutely agree with all that. I have HD camcorders - even one that shoots underwater - and have yet to edit a movie in anything other than SD, even though I equipped up to have HD edit capability. I can see that some subjects would benefit greatly from having an HD treatment (4k isn't even on my radar) - and when (if) I tackle one of those, I may well break loose. But at the moment ... SD is fine for my rubbish.

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