IAC DISCUSSION FORUMS

Anyone got some recommendations for what to look for when updating your club projector.

It obviously must be able to project from s.video and component outputs, and also be able to project in the correct aspect ratio for widescreen movies, this done either automatically or at the flick of a remote.

What other inputs do you think it should come with? Hi def HDMI input, and/or others.

I read a bit of scare story in this month's Nor' Easter about Huddersfield Club, who got a new hi def projector. When they used it, there was a picture delay that ruined lip sync. That resulted in the need to buy a sound delaying gadget to sync up the sound.

My wish list would pull in a Panasonic PT-AX100E. It looks good to me. Thoughts people?

Because of the problem of picture and audio being out of sync, I wrote up about the digital audio delay corrector in Positive Image last year. See page 7 of your May/June 2006 issue.

tom.

Well done for thinking about HD. It will future proof your club (for a few years) on the projection front. Check reselutions. There are two main one`s 1080 and 720. Also there are (i) and (p), interlaced and progressive. Most cameras use one of them but the more exspensive can use both.
You lucky your club is looking into it properly. Were lucky our club one may be able to handle widescreen (in the cheat way) let alone black and white!

Ian Gardner

tom hardwick wrote:Because of the problem of picture and audio being out of sync, I wrote up about the digital audio delay corrector in Positive Image last year. See page 7 of your May/June 2006 issue.

tom.

I looked up your article, which has got me thinking about any delay in the picture on my Panasonic flatscreen CRT main TV. It doesn't answer my question about projectors though.

Maybe I'm asking a question that most of us just don't even consider. Will all new projectors cause a picture delay, or just the ones that can do hi def? Cos if I buy a new projector for home cinema use, and the lip sync goes on everything I run through it, I'll be unhappy.

I think I need to ask the likes of Panasonic about this issue that you highlighted last year.

I'm sure not all projectors have this sync problem. As far as I can see the more picture processing that's applied, the later the image gets to the screen and the more out of sync with the sound it will be.

I'll check out the image on my home projector and see if there's any delay.
I have tried looking for delay on my tv, and it is ever-so-slightly there, but I can't say I've ever noticed it before.

Obviously these new projectors are more prone to it.

Billy

I'm involved in the film collecting scene and some of the collectors are very impressed by the Panasonic AX 100E which I know they have used to show Hi Def in the home - I have seen no reports of loss of synch. There is a magazine called Projections run by one of the collectors and I can put you in touch with someone if you would like to phone me for information (I'd rather not put details on the web)

Brian Saberton wrote:Billy

There is a magazine called Projections run by one of the collectors and I can put you in touch with someone if you would like to phone me for information (I'd rather not put details on the web)

Just `PM` him from this forum That`s what it is for and also you can talk secret if you need to

Ian Gardner

I already have done thanks.

Re projector delay - I got a reply from Panasonic -they say "In response, I would explain that there are no such problem with own recordings. Lip sync can be a problem sometime times with sky signals.."

billyfromConsett wrote: Re projector delay - I got a reply from Panasonic -they say "In response, I would explain that there are no such problem with own recordings. Lip sync can be a problem sometime times with sky signals.."

There a bit bitchy arn`t they
I can see they have a point but the signal takes the same time to be processed from the output of SkyHD and maybe a HD-DVD. The delay to and from the satellite is with the signal and not the audio or video (if you get my point.) I`m getting VERY fed up in life with people and companys blameing somebody else for shoddy work. People or companys NEVER admit to there failings.
I`m a believer in the Panasonic Brand. It`s quality stuff. I think it`s a problem that the manufactures need to address. How could anyone put a delay in their Dolby Digital system
I watch football on television with up to a 5 second delay (audio from the radio, don`t ask! )

Ian Gardner

Brian Saberton wrote: I'm involved in the film collecting scene and some of the collectors are very impressed by the Panasonic AX 100E which I know they have used to show Hi Def in the home - I have seen no reports of loss of synch. There is a magazine called Projections run by one of the collectors and I can put you in touch with someone

The message I got from film collecting gent was that the picture lag is nothing to do with the projector, and everything to do with the source DVD encryption.

I still haven't heard from anyone from Huddersfield who can tell me if DVD's were part of the rig when the audio went out of sync.

Lost sync can be caused by a few things.

1. Problems not spotted with the burning of the dvd. Very unlikely.
2. Problems with the dvd player, ie it cannot handle the high bitrate that the dvd was burn`t at. Maybe.
3. The way dvd`s and HD work is that the data is compressed to really high compression rates (mainly HD), and this take longer to uncompress then the sound. More likely.

I think there may be more reasons but it`s been a long day!
Ian Gardner

I asked some staff at a Sony Shop if they do an amp that has a lip-sync correcting sound delay circuit built in. They didn't know, as Sony only have two AV amps! One guy suggested going into the DVD player's menu and increasing the sample rate.

But I have also learned that many modern AV amps have a sound delay circuit built-in, accessed from their menu.

My own Yamaha DSP-AX757SE has an inbuilt sound delay between 0-160ms. I didn't know that til I looked - but its there! So the problem is, sure enough, a widely known issue.

My current projector
I checked out my Panasonic PT-AE100 widescreen video projector for a picture delay by doiing the following:

1) putting an Adobe Premiere countdown leader onto a camcorder miniDV tape which I connected to the projector

2) With the sidescreen out I played it through the projector whilst videoing both the screen and camcorder sidescreen in the same shot

3) Dropping the clip into Premiere and looked at the result on the timeline, comparing sidescreen and projected image.

The result is that my Panasonic projector causes a delay of less than a frame. Maybe that's why I hadn't noticed it- it's imperceptable.

But will a Hi Def job be as quick? I will report back...

Are you sure your Yamaha has an overall sound delay, or just a variable delay to the rear speakers? My Yamaha amp is like this.

According to the manual "the sound menu can compensate for video signal processing delays when using LCD monitors or projectors."

Each speaker can be indiviudally delayed to compensate for distance, but it mentions compensating for video processing delay on a couple of occasions. A review I read a few days ago mentioned it - so I looked at the manual (most unlike me).

I thought it might just affect the centre speaker, but I rekon its more than just that.

A web page for it mentions this feature and is here http://www.avland.co.uk/yamaha/dspax757/dspax757.htm

I will be able to redo that pic delay test with a Pansonic PT-AX100E soon...