IAC DISCUSSION FORUMS

I got the new magazine (Film & Video Maker) this week. It look good - and
smells good!

BUT if I heard it right about half the money IAC gets goes to make the magazine
and the other half to the office.

Glossy pages are good and there is a lot to read but it is old news and the
list of events is rubish. I think IAC should put all the stuff on the website
and save money - mabe reduce entry fee for comp as a result.

KV

Absolutely not!!! The magazine is the only real link between all the members,
it is tangible, you can feel it, see it and if you want read it. The websight
is good I'll grant you but all this electronic communication can be over
done and it is much more pleasant to actually pick up a magazine, take it
to where ever you want and read it at leisure (in bed, on holiday, in the
bath....) Also a fairly small number of people actually access the web
sight and perhaps Garth could encourage more people to write pieces or particularly
letters in order to stimulate more debate via the magazine.

Please, let's not hear any more about saving money by dropping the magazine,
on the contrary it should be encouraged and even expanded.



"KV" <forums@theiac.org.uk> wrote:

I got the new magazine (Film & Video Maker) this week. It look good - and
smells good!

BUT if I heard it right about half the money IAC gets goes to make the magazine
and the other half to the office.

Glossy pages are good and there is a lot to read but it is old news and
the
list of events is rubish. I think IAC should put all the stuff on the website
and save money - mabe reduce entry fee for comp as a result.

KV

"KV" <forums@theiac.org.uk> wrote:

I got the new magazine (Film & Video Maker) this week. It look good - and
smells good!

BUT if I heard it right about half the money IAC gets goes to make the magazine
and the other half to the office.

Glossy pages are good and there is a lot to read but it is old news and
the
list of events is rubish. I think IAC should put all the stuff on the website
and save money - mabe reduce entry fee for comp as a result.

KV

Hello KV ! "Film and Video Maker" is one of the best magazines I know. I
always look forward to receiving the next issue. The magazine on the web
? Oh no, please ! Perhaps I'm an old fashioned man and KV is a young IAC
member with bright and news ideas. I already have grandchildren. Just after
they were born they already started to play with computers. Now we live in
a computer society. Film Festivals on a website. Magazines on a website.
Everyday I can read the news on a website. Everything is on a website ! The
Way Forward. We could make a film about it for the 75th anniversary of the
IAC. I prefer to be old-fashioned and to leave my computer from time to time.
I prefer to read a book in an armchair. I prefer to buy my newspaper. I
prefer to show my films at festivals and not on the web. I prefer to feel
and to smell and to read my magazine "Film and Video Maker". Cheers. WVDL.

"KV" <forums@theiac.org.uk> wrote:

I got the new magazine (Film & Video Maker) this week. It look good - and
smells good!

BUT if I heard it right about half the money IAC gets goes to make the
magazine
and the other half to the office.

Glossy pages are good and there is a lot to read but it is old news and
the
list of events is rubish. I think IAC should put all the stuff on the website
and save money - mabe reduce entry fee for comp as a result.

KV

The FVM magazine is a VITAL part of the IAC and must not be touched as it
is a crucial link between members.
It is surprising but true, that there are many who still do not have internet
access or even computers and the magazine is the only place where they can
get the news. The reference to "A lot to read but it is old news" is totally
wrong. Of course we all have our favourite sections which we will read first.
Some like the technical stuff and others the "How to..." articles, but this
has always been the case and Garth has to keep a balance between the various
requirements of the readership. I think that Michael`s article on HD was
very up-to-the-minute and very interesting (though so hi-tech I didn`t understand
half of it!) but no way is it old news. I am sorry KV but I don`t agree with
you at all.
Incidentally, I am now writing a new series for FVM and Part One should be
in the post to Garth by Monday.

Ken.

The Magazine...booring, dreary, colouress and full of non relevany articles
to my interesting in filming. save money get rid of it. it looks as though
it belongs back in the 70's...bin it.









"Ken Wilson" <kw@phase4.free-online.co.uk> wrote:

"KV" <forums@theiac.org.uk> wrote:

I got the new magazine (Film & Video Maker) this week. It look good -
and
smells good!

BUT if I heard it right about half the money IAC gets goes to make the
magazine
and the other half to the office.

Glossy pages are good and there is a lot to read but it is old news and
the
list of events is rubish. I think IAC should put all the stuff on the
website
and save money - mabe reduce entry fee for comp as a result.

KV


The FVM magazine is a VITAL part of the IAC and must not be touched as it
is a crucial link between members.
It is surprising but true, that there are many who still do not have internet
access or even computers and the magazine is the only place where they can
get the news. The reference to "A lot to read but it is old news" is totally
wrong. Of course we all have our favourite sections which we will read first.
Some like the technical stuff and others the "How to..." articles, but this
has always been the case and Garth has to keep a balance between the various
requirements of the readership. I think that Michael`s article on HD was
very up-to-the-minute and very interesting (though so hi-tech I didn`t understand
half of it!) but no way is it old news. I am sorry KV but I don`t agree
with
you at all.
Incidentally, I am now writing a new series for FVM and Part One should
be
in the post to Garth by Monday.

Ken.

"ron jarrett" <henry.jarrett@btopenworld.com> wrote:

The Magazine...booring, dreary, colouress and full of non relevany articles
to my interesting in filming. save money get rid of it. it looks as though
it belongs back in the 70's...bin it.

It's always easy to criticize everything. I appreciate the fact that you

give your opinion on this forum, Ron, but could you also tell me ... how
would you make the magazine even more interesting ? Imagine that you are
the editor-in-chief. What kind of relevant articles would you write/publish
? Some time ago I wrote : "The best coaches are in the sands !"... Could
you write an interesting and relevant article on this forum, Ron ? An article
that you would find interesting enough for the magazine ? I am looking forward
to reading it. I am sure that Garth Hope would like very relevant articles
for his magazine. Give us an example, Ron.

Willy, he would have to improve his spelling first!




"Willy Van der Linden" <vanderlindenhig@telenet.be> wrote:

"ron jarrett" <henry.jarrett@btopenworld.com> wrote:



The Magazine...booring, dreary, colouress and full of non relevany articles
to my interesting in filming. save money get rid of it. it looks as though
it belongs back in the 70's...bin it.

It's always easy to criticize everything. I appreciate the fact that you
give your opinion on this forum, Ron, but could you also tell me ... how
would you make the magazine even more interesting ? Imagine that you are
the editor-in-chief. What kind of relevant articles would you write/publish
? Some time ago I wrote : "The best coaches are in the sands !"... Could
you write an interesting and relevant article on this forum, Ron ? An article
that you would find interesting enough for the magazine ? I am looking forward
to reading it. I am sure that Garth Hope would like very relevant articles
for his magazine. Give us an example, Ron.

"Michael Slowe" <michael.slowe@btinternet.com> wrote:

Willy, he would have to improve his spelling first!

Not fair to knock spelling on a forum. People type fast and make mistakes.

I can only check in everyt few days. So to answer:

I meant the news in the magazine is old - long gone festivals etc

Some articles are OK, some are space-fillers. What's the poin of the press-releases
pages?

The coming vents is a joke.

OK it feels nice (sounds kinky!) but the mag is expensive. Could it be simpler
anbd cheaper? Lots of organisations have less flashy magazines.

See what Ken means about not all having net access ... but the ones who do
are the future, is the mag an expensive way to keep the dodos happy?

There were moans about the cost of the competition and plenty of people complane
to me about cost of joining IAC. If there was no mag would those other fees
be lower?

KV

Feeling some sense of responsibility for having opened this pandora's box
let me add some thoughts. As the editor of the AMPS Newsletter I know how
difficult it is to put together our 8 page bimonthly let alone a full sized
glossy. However, I believe the IAC has a membership of about 1800 and to
produce a magazine with minimal advertising income for such a small circulation,
remember the costs of postage as well as production, and you have a very
expensive production. This is the Internet age and limited circulation magazines
are most economically distributed via the net. For people who are not on
the net then a very low cost minimalist version printed at Kinko's (or what
ever the UK equivalent is) and sent out by mail. Given that even the less
than serious film makers use computer based NLE systems then I must assume
that most members have computers and the potential for connection to the
Internet. In answer to Michaels comment, yes it is nice to riffle through
the pages but it is possible to print out the articles of interest and keep
them as hard copies, actually much easier than keeping the whole magazine.
It is a question of where to use financial resources, is the magazine a place
to put the major part (a guess) of the income? It is a closed circulation
magazine so does not attract new members and because of this does not attract
advertisers, given the lead time on magazines then it will always be behind
the latest news/events that will be on the web page. We are going to have
to get used to some things that feel uncomfortable initially, we will view
our various amateur festivals on the net, the potential for full screen presentation
is there and we will be communicating, reading specialist journals even sharing
editing projects via the Internet. We resist this at our peril.

Ned C


"KV" <KV@iacforums.net> wrote:

"Michael Slowe" <michael.slowe@btinternet.com> wrote:
Willy, he would have to improve his spelling first!

Not fair to knock spelling on a forum. People type fast and make mistakes.

I can only check in everyt few days. So to answer:

I meant the news in the magazine is old - long gone festivals etc

Some articles are OK, some are space-fillers. What's the poin of the press-releases
pages?

The coming vents is a joke.

OK it feels nice (sounds kinky!) but the mag is expensive. Could it be simpler
anbd cheaper? Lots of organisations have less flashy magazines.

See what Ken means about not all having net access ... but the ones who
do
are the future, is the mag an expensive way to keep the dodos happy?

There were moans about the cost of the competition and plenty of people
complane
to me about cost of joining IAC. If there was no mag would those other fees
be lower?

KV

"Ned C" <ned@amvideo.com> wrote:

Feeling some sense of responsibility for having opened this pandora's box
let me add some thoughts. As the editor of the AMPS Newsletter I know how
difficult it is to put together our 8 page bimonthly let alone a full sized
glossy. However, I believe the IAC has a membership of about 1800 and to
produce a magazine with minimal advertising income for such a small circulation,
remember the costs of postage as well as production, and you have a very
expensive production.
______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

I was a bit surprised when you started this discussion saying that "Film
and Video Maker" is too expensive.
As you know I am also a member of AMPS. Membership is only 20 or 25 dollars
I remember. I also like the American newsletter, but it has only 8 pages.
The AMPS Magazine on internet would be easy, but please, do not compare the
AMPS Newsletter with "Film and Video Magazine", Ned ! Communication and socializing
are very important and vital things in life. Therefore the magazine is a
place to put the major part of the income. I still prefer reading my newspaper
and magazines to reading the very limited news on internet. I'm sure that
you agree with this, Ned, don't you ? As I already told you ... Any hobby
is expensive nowadays. It's also a matter of making a choice. I know people
who are interested in riding on an expensive motorbike, but they're also
interested in windsurfing, in computer games, in music, in skying, in making
films etc... etc... And then sometimes they find things too expensive ...
They are very spoilt. I was young in the Golden Sixties, but even then we
could not afford all those things. On the contrary. I have only one hobby
and that's film making and therefore I want to spend some money on my IAC-membership
and all the advantages like copyright, receiving the "Film and Video Maker"
magazine and other things.

This is the Internet Age, but we must not exaggerate. I prefer reading Ernest
Hemingway's "The Old Man and the Sea" having the book in my hands. Imagine
that it's on Internet. That must not be so comfortable. It's the same with
"Film and Video Maker". I enjoy reading the discussions on this forum, but
the IAC-website is not the place for our magazine. Now we can even watch
films on this website, but please be honest ... you can better view films
on a wide screen at a festival or in your club if you would like to enjoy
the real atmosphere of the films. Our clubs and festivity halls are also
the places where we can communicate and socialize. We live in the Internet
Age, but it doesn't mean that everything must be on Internet. Now I'm going
to stop writing because when the messages are too long on this forum then
it is not easy to read them on the computer screen.
Willy

____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

"Ken Wilson" <kw@phase4.free-online.co.uk> wrote:

"KV" <forums@theiac.org.uk> wrote:

I got the new magazine (Film & Video Maker) this week. It look good -
and
smells good!

BUT if I heard it right about half the money IAC gets goes to make the
magazine
and the other half to the office.

Glossy pages are good and there is a lot to read but it is old news and
the
list of events is rubish. I think IAC should put all the stuff on the
website
and save money - mabe reduce entry fee for comp as a result.

KV


The FVM magazine is a VITAL part of the IAC and must not be touched as it
is a crucial link between members.
It is surprising but true, that there are many who still do not have internet
access or even computers and the magazine is the only place where they can
get the news. The reference to "A lot to read but it is old news" is totally
wrong. Of course we all have our favourite sections which we will read first.
Some like the technical stuff and others the "How to..." articles, but this
has always been the case and Garth has to keep a balance between the various
requirements of the readership. I think that Michael`s article on HD was
very up-to-the-minute and very interesting (though so hi-tech I didn`t understand
half of it!) but no way is it old news. I am sorry KV but I don`t agree
with
you at all.
Incidentally, I am now writing a new series for FVM and Part One should
be
in the post to Garth by Monday.

Ken.

KV and Ron Jarrett are right on the money re the IAC magazine. However as
Ken Wilson states
"the magazine is the only place that members get news.." Fair enough, but
does it require the overall glossy aspect and associated expense to achieve
that? I don`t think so.
As far as NW region members are concerned, they get a small cheap pamphlet
type thing called Tripod News which is included with the IAC magazine....
Now I don`t know whether this applies for ALL the relevant regions of the
IAC, but whilst this pamphlet looks cheap and is cheap, it serves its purpose
in providing information. If its a case of keeping members fingers on the
pulse,why does`nt the IAC use that method instead? Far cheaper and more practical.
All these people who say `Oh, I want to be able to feel the magazine and
smell it and read it in my armchair, bath, back garden, etc etc.....Where
the hell is all that coming from!!!???
GET REAL!!!
To Ken Wilson and all the other advocates of the magazine the basic fact
of the matter is this..
It is NOT worth the money it costs to produce.PERIOD.
Why? Well not to put too fine a point on it, its full of W and P. I won`t
translate but heres a clue for those who need it.....wind and water.

I don`t know about anyone else, but I always get the impression that the
IAC is hanging on by its fingernails from one year to the next - so if finances
are such an important issue I`ll open up another Pandoras Box and ask this
question; In relation to what the IAC gets in yearly revenue re membership
fees, exactly how much DOES that magazine cost to produce? I for one would
like to know.

Mention has also been made of the fact that a lot of people have not got
internet access and that the mag is the only means they have of getting news
(well I`ve already put forward a cheaper alternative to that)but lets get
things into proportion here..
As I do not know what the total IAC membership is in real terms (someone
on this forum has suggested 1800?), for the sake of argument lets say its
1600.
Question; How many people actually use this forum? As someone rightly mentioned
not long since, this forum is driven by a hardcore of only half a dozen people
(!) They know who they are, and when things get quiet it it usually Dave
Watterson who throws a question in to keep the thing going!
By the law of averages there MUST be more than half a dozen of those 1600
members who HAVE got internet access.The fact is they they don`t bother.Exactly
why is the 64000 dollar question.
Even if it was only a quarter of that 1600, its still a sad state of affairs
when only 6 or 7 of them use this forum.

As far as the IAC is concerned, unless changes are made along the lines which
`Ned C` suggests elsewhere on this forum, the phrase `flogging a dead horse`
springs to mind.

Ace

Can I say something?

''The Magazine...booring, dreary, colouress expensive'' argument vs the,
''Must have - glossy, quality feel that you can read in your armchair''.

First off I should say that I've been writing the Positive Image pages for
many years and I can see both sides of the argument. Take this months's
edition - we don't have many colour pages at our disposal yet one of them
(page 15) is given over to a small colour photo of the writer and his text,
nothing else.

I go to a great deal of trouble with the colour photographs I submit. The
photographic items have to be positioned, lit and photographed many times.
The files are selected and pulled into Photoshop, they're resized, have
the text added, they're converted to 300 dpi CMYK JPEGS and are finally burnt
to disc. And then after all that they sometimes get distorted (bottom of
page 7). How?

It all takes a great deal of time, yet when colour pages are 'wasted' I begin
to wonder why I bother. Of course the colour pages have to be distributed
fairly and this month's Outback Odyssey used them well, but with so much
colour used in page after page of every single magazine out there (and most
of the newspapers as well) FVM can indeed start to look rather grey.

I'm sorry that some see my articles as booring and dreary, but then I can
claim that I not only do it for no money, but that doing it costs ME money.
In time, telephone calls, CDROMs, envelopes, postage, printing paper and
so on.

The upside is when I get emails or calls from people who feel my articles
have helped in some way. But then again last week I had Carl B on the phone
(he knows who he is) saying I was spreading false information via Positive
Image, and I was wrong about the Canon XL2. I asked him where I'd mentioned
the XL2 and he said he'd come back to me. He never did.

In conclusion I'd say that the magazine is a must-have for the IAC. I believe
it's a great shop front and without it we'd lose contact and therfore lose
members. I do wish there was a few quid put by for the front cover though,
as very often this does not say Film and Video Maker in the slightest. You've
only got to have quick look at the WH Smith shelves of video magazines to
see where we should be.

tom

KV and Ron Jarrett are right on the money re the IAC magazine. However as
Ken Wilson states
"the magazine is the only place that members get news.." Fair enough, but
does it require the overall glossy aspect and associated expense to achieve
that? I don`t think so.
As far as NW region members are concerned, they get a small cheap pamphlet
type thing called Tripod News which is included with the IAC magazine....

To Ken Wilson and all the other advocates of the magazine the basic fact
of the matter is this..
It is NOT worth the money it costs to produce.PERIOD.

The problem with a good discussion is that it will inevitably get very heated
and eventually turn nasty and personal. There are some good points along
this line of debate, however, my position remains steadfast! The magazine
is one of the two most important reasons for being a member of the IAC. The
other is the BIAFF competition and movie weekend.
I first would like to clarify what I said about many people who do not have
a computer at all and no internet access. I know this for a fact as we travel
all around the country giving film shows and people have told me this. So
to remove the magazine entirely would surely be very unfair to those people
who wouldn`t get their news any other way.

I personally don`t spend very long sniffing my copy of the FVM, well not
more than an hour or two anyway, but I know what people mean. As a child
the smell of Christmas was the fresh print smell of my annuals (children`s
books) which were the most important presents I got.
"Hobby" magazines do not have to be up-to-the-minute in the same way as a
newspaper or the "instant" news we get from TV. Tom`s articles which give
a lot of advice about equipment, often cameras or lenses, does not go out
of date in a couple of days time and is relevant when the next issue comes
out a few weeks later.

The regional magazines solution, i.e. cheap pamphlets, in no way can be seen
as a substitute for a quality magazine.
I agree that there are lots of things than can be improved but comments here
which are totally lacking any constructive suggestions are pointless. Those
on this forum who simply shout: "Rubbish", "Pointless" and "Bin-it" are either
just winding us up or just moaning and wingeing for the sake of it.
Improve the mag by writing interesting material for it. As someone said on
here, it is very easy for people to criticise, but not in the least helpful.

I agree with Tom that sometimes the colour pages could be used to better
advantage. I too have sent in colour pictures only to have then printed in
black and white when the colour page seemed underused with only a single
picture or text heading. But I have edited our regional magazine "Nor` Easter"
and know how much work goes into that (pamphlet.) I had very little material
sent in most of the time so nothing to work with. The FVM editor, Garth does
get some articles sent in, but I`ll bet rarely enough and it will be a scramble
at the last minute to fill it.
So stop complaining and do something about it. Write some articles and send
them in.
Yes, the IAC does seem to limp from one year to the next, but we need do-ers
not wingers!

Ken.

I've been watching this thread with interest but felt reluctant to join in
- not least because the current issue of FVM has several articles by me.
But since noted contributors like Ken and Tom have spoken up ...

Let me point out that in the past the IAC magazine has been a much humbler
production - closer in nature to the A5 sized booklets issued by each Region.
Sometimes it has been subsumed as supplementary pages in commercial magazines.

Our expectations of magazine production standards are higher than they were
... but the A5 size cyclostyled format, sometimes with slightly thicker card
as covers, was what sustained IAC in its glory years.

I like the look and feel of today's FVM if we can afford it. I'm not sure
we can continue to afford it.

Like most writers I believe content is king. If the articles are good enough
the look and feel of the magazine is pretty unimportant.

Like most writers I know that producing an article is not a trivial task
and not many people can do it well. Asking everyone who is critical to write
a piece for the magazine is impractical. (I may be biased here because I'm
a frequent film judge who has never made a movie worth entering in a competition.
I do not believe you have to be a good practitioner to be a good critic -
whether of films or magazines.)

Ken knows the problems Garth faces - so do all the editors of the Regional
magazines. Few people volunteer articles. You have to beg and push people
into writing, which means keeping an ear to the ground to know who has relevant
knowledge or experience. That's hard to do in a Region and very, very hard
given a whole country.

Dave (who has sent more pieces for Garth to consider using in the next issue!)

"Dave Watterson" <david.filmsocs@virgin.net> wrote:

Asking everyone who is critical to write a piece for the magazine is impractical.

(I may be biased here because I'm
a frequent film judge who has never made a movie worth entering in a competition.
I do not believe you have to be a good practitioner to be a good critic -
whether of films or magazines.
______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

I agree with you, Dave, that not everyone has a good written language (spelling,
style), but I think that a member of the editorial FVM-staff can always correct
spelling mistakes and change the sentence structure a little bit in the articles
that he receives. I am a foreigner and I sometimes see spelling mistakes
in this forum, but I also know that my own word choice is not always right
(or correct ?). I am already happy when readers can understand what I mean.
I am not against friends who make spelling mistakes. Not at all. I always
appreciate the fact that they have the courage to write something. A forum
and a magazine are possible means to communicate.

Do not ask me to use a hammer. I never hit the nail on the head. On the other
hand I can use a pen and write articles in Dutch. 20 years ago I was a free
lance journalist. Every day I sent articles to the editorial staff. The articles
appeared in the newspaper sometimes with a different title and it even happened
that my sentences were not the original ones.

The only thing that I miss in FVM are photos of young people and articles
written by young film fanatics. We should also try to attract young film
makers in our magazine. Perhaps we sometimes forget this. It seems to me
that FVM is a magazine for people who are retired just like me and who have
not fallen in a sort of limbo. They all make films. I have the feeling that
KV is a young man. Then I understand that he finds FVM too expensive because
maybe it lacks some "Schwung", but I think that the articles are interesting
enough for old and also for young people.

Of course it would be ridiculous to send a film to the BIAFF-secretary Brian
Dunckley, and ask him to improve it before entering. But it is not ridiculous
to send an article to Garth Hope and his editorial staff and to ask them
to correct spelling mistakes, to change some words and the sentence structure.
If I were a Briton I would already have written articles for FVM, but I feel
happy that I can express my thoughts on this forum.

It's really amazing that only half a dozen of IAC-friends write messages
for this forum. I confirm some forum-friends in their opinion. Indeed, there
are almost 2000 IAC-members and only 5 or 6 people with a bad spelling and
a bad word choice like me (Ken, Michael, Dave and some other ones are exceptions)
have the courage to write something. I have a very good English IAC-penfriend.
His letters are wonderful. What he writes is always extremely interesting.
His letters are always very long - even longer than mine - and his language
seems to be perfect. But he never writes articles for FVM and for this forum.
I am sure he is not the only one. Maybe there are even former British free
lance journalists who never contribute stories to this forum. I wonder why
they never do this. Who can tell me ? Perhaps they fear hot disputes ?