IAC DISCUSSION FORUMS

I'm making a film about my friend Brian. He's a folksinger, entertainer and
artist. We've known each other for more than 25 years. He was born in London.
He lived in the Garden of England for more than thirty years. Now he lives
in a converted barn on top of a hill on the edge of Dartmoor National Park.
Brian had to sing a few songs in front of his house, but the weather conditions
were bad. There was too much wind. Yet I could use a very good sennheiser
microphone with a cover on it. I don't know the right word for it in English.
Afterwards I asked Brian to sing his songs again but this time in his house
while watching the exterior shots and while listening to his songs using
headphones. After three days of filming he was exhausted. Now he is willing
to come to Belgium if the sound is not alright and if I really think it is
necessary to sing the songs again. In my film "until You Smile" I will show
sunny pictures of London (1 minute), of the glorious Garden of England and
the house where he lived (1 minute) and of course ... also of Dartmoor National
Park (1 minute). Therefore I will have to go back to Dartmoor, but only
when I am sure that there is an area of high pressure above Devon. Are the
BBC-weather men and women to be trusted ? I'm already looking forward to
going back, you know. Dartmoor is a fantastic place with its mountainous
and rugged panoramic views, with its tors and wild horses, ... but only when
the sun is shining. In my opinion this National Park is even gloomy and mysterious
when it's dull. It has the atmosphere of Daphne du Maurier's Cornish novels.
In the middle of Dartmoor is the notorious prison of Princetown. I always
tease my friend Brian saying that his lovely dog Bilbo is Sir Arthur Conan
Doyle's "Hound of Baskervilles". I don't think that Brian wants me to show
Dartmoor with dark clouds in the sky. He moved to Devon to enjoy the beautiful
Devon countryside. I have to respect his feelings in this film. I appreciate
feature films. Also my friend had to do some acting. But we mustn't underestimate
the problems we are faced with when making documentaries or travelogues.

Are BBC weather men to be trusted?- well see that dirty dam cloud they stick
over Caithness, it usually isn't there! So, no they are not to be trusted.

"vanderlindenhig@telenet.be" wrote:

Brian had to sing a few songs in front of his house, but
the weather conditions were bad. There was too much wind.

Welcome back to Britain, Willy! Unpredictable weather is part of our heritage.
Some of the time you were suffering in Devon we had wonderful sunshine and
still air in Bath just a little further North.

By the way, the words for the "fluffy dog on a stick" which covers a microphone
are "wind gag" or "wind muffler".

Afterwards I asked Brian to sing his songs again ...

I wonder if we are getting spoilt by the equipment we have today. In 8mm
days most material was shot mute and any sound was dubbed on later. In his
marvellous and inspiring book "Rebel Without A Crew" Robert Rodriguez explains
how he shot his first feature "wild". He pointed a rented Arriflex 16mm at
an artist to record the image, then put the camera down, picked up a tape-recorder
and asked them to repeat the action exactly. By working in brief clips he
was able during editing to arrange enough lip synch to be convincing.

The other way would be to record Brian singing in a quiet studio. Then pose
him in a suitable location and have him mime to a playback of his own voice.
In post-production you can mix in judicious quantities of wind and countryside
sounds.

We often talk here about making fiction films because that is an even bigger
challenge ... actors (!) ... and is in direct comparison with the entertainment
films and tv shows most audiences watch. But we certainly recognise the problems
that are involved in making documentaries (as opposed to holiday or travelogue
movies.)

Dave

"Dave Watterson" <david.filmsocs@virgin.net> wrote:

Welcome back to Britain, Willy! Unpredictable weather is part of our heritage.

When in shops/libraries/trains or buses etc. and if
someone complains to me about the British weather,
or for that matter any other moan about any aspect of
Britain, I always reply in the same way.......

"It's still the best country in the world though, ain't it?"

Most all agree with me after overcoming the initial shock
of my unexpected reply.

Albert....doing the unexpected.

"AnimatioN" <Animation@btinternet.com> wrote:

"Dave Watterson" <david.filmsocs@virgin.net> wrote:

Welcome back to Britain, Willy! Unpredictable weather is part of our heritage.

When in shops/libraries/trains or buses etc. and if
someone complains to me about the British weather,
or for that matter any other moan about any aspect of
Britain, I always reply in the same way.......

"It's still the best country in the world though, ain't it?"

Most all agree with me after overcoming the initial shock
of my unexpected reply.

Albert....doing the unexpected.

I am a Belgian, my friend Albert, but I agree with you, and so does Dave

Watterson and all the other film friends who have read your "unexpected"
reply. I must say I like and I appreciate your replies. I feel that you always
want animated discussions on this forum. That's good. I always enjoy my
holidays in Britain, Albert, even when the weather is bad. Glencoe for
instance is fantastic when there are dark and heavy clouds in the sky. It's
better to film Glencoe when the weather is bad and not only because of its
history. The scenery is breath-taking in particular when it is dull. Last
week I took a shot of Stonehenge while passing this site in my car. The sun
was not shining. I was a bit disappointed, but now I think that this shot
is even better without any brilliance. Britain is beautiful. Also Belgium
has unpredictable weather, but only the Flemish cities like Bruges and Antwerp
are beautiful and the whole French-speaking part. I've already thought of
making a travelogue about Wallony. You should once visit the French-speaking
part, Albert ! It's a bit like Wales ! But I agree, ... only a bit !

We always say the weather in Caithness is readily predictable. Mostly you'll
hear it from old women early in the morning as they head for their scones,
"It's a lovely day!" says one lady to which comes the optomistic reply, "yes,
but I think it will rain later!"
In true modern movie style there is an alternative ending, "yes, but it'll
not last!"
Actually though our weather is rarely very bad, mostly just somewhere in
the middle so faily pleasant even in winter. In fact due to the fairly constant
brease we also get more direct sunlight than the rest of the UK even in winter
when we have the shortest days.
In summer we are frequently asked, "When does it get dark?" by tourists
on camping holdidays, We tell them, "September" althought late July early
August is nearer the mark but even then only dark solid for 3 hours depending
on cloud cover.

"Willy Van der Linden" <vanderlindenhig@telenet.be> wrote:

"AnimatioN" <Animation@btinternet.com> wrote:
"It's still the best country in the world though, ain't it?"

Most all agree with me after overcoming the initial shock
of my unexpected reply.

I am a Belgian, my friend Albert, but I agree with you, and so does Dave
Watterson and all the other film friends who have read your "unexpected"
reply. I must say I like and I appreciate your replies. I feel that you
always
want animated discussions on this forum. That's good. I always enjoy my
holidays in Britain, Albert, even when the weather is bad.

Yes Willy,
Our TV is utter crap (but probably one of the best!)
We litter our streets more than many!
We have more football holigans than most!
We mug and rape old ladies!
We have one of the largest prison populations!
We have, so called British, willing to kill us all.

Britain is beautiful.
Not judging from the above though.

But providing one doesn't live in an inner city then this
is something we never experience, so we, living in rural
bliss, live in the best country......or do we?
Albert....questioning.
http://www.retinascope.co.uk/index.html

"AnimatioN" <Animation@btinternet.com> wrote:

Yes Willy,
Our TV is utter crap (but probably one of the best!)
We litter our streets more than many!
We have more football holigans than most!
We mug and rape old ladies!
We have one of the largest prison populations!
We have, so called British, willing to kill us all.

Britain is beautiful.
Not judging from the above though.

But providing one doesn't live in an inner city then this
is something we never experience, so we, living in rural
bliss, live in the best country......or do we?
Albert....questioning.
http://www.retinascope.co.uk/index.html

I didn't know the word "crap", Albert. Now I know. Bad word, according to
my dictionary. Last week I gave a birthday card to my English friend. I
had bought it in a car park on the M5 motorway. On it was a picture of a
packet full of seeds of Brussels sprouts. Next to it : Happy birthday "Good
Old Fart !" I didn't understand the word "fart". Brian started laughing with
it. Now I know the meaning of "fart". In my film about my friend Brian he
will receive an envelope from me and he will say something like : "Oh, I've
received a letter from Willy, the good old tart !" He opens the envelope
with his birthday card in it and he reads : "Good Old Tart !".

The BBC is perhaps the best TV channel in the world. But it is a pity that
there are only 4 channels in England. BBC1 and 2, Channel 4 and an other
one. Here on the continent we have an enormous choice. We have 24 channels
! So we can watch many, many films. I wonder why Britain has only 4 channels.
Do you know why ? For film makers it's good that there are many channels
on TV. Don't you think so ? I myself don't like the satellite dishes. They
are ugly.

An "unexpected" reply from me, Albert on "We litter our streets more than
many !" In April I was back in London after three or four years. London
was tidy ! I was surprised ! It was not like that three or four years ago.
And there were new buses and new cabs in different colours. Everything was
clean. London was "refreshing". Also in the underground "you could eat from
the ground" (that's a Flemish expression). I told my English friend. "It
seems that there is prosperity in England".

"Football Hooligans". When I was a teacher in a secondary school I tried
to enthuse my students by attending matches on Tottenham, Queens Park Rangers,
West Ham, Arsenal and other London football grounds. I remember I was a bit
afraid the last time on Arsenal. It was a London derby. But now it seems
that everything is alright. The tragedy in Brussels with the Liverpool supporters
was twenty years ago. The situation has improved. Do not exaggerate, Albert.
On the continent the attitude of the local footballfans is often very provocative
...

An other "unexpected" reply on "We have one of the largest prison populations."
- I would like to give you a reply to it though it has nothing to do with
film making. - In Belgium our prisons are "bursting", Albert. They are overcrowded
and so are our refugee camps. More and more people from the South and East
are hoping to get to England, "The Beloved Country"... Those poor or unhappy
people are put in airplanes and sent back to their own country. A big problem.
Our warders are on strike from time to time. They cannot control the numbers
of prisoners or refugees anymore. "Make Poverty History". That's the solution.
We should help those people in their own country so that they are not eager
to live with us anymore and perhaps that we are eager to live with them in
their country.

Now it's time to work on my film or to make a short trip on my bike to keep

fit. Most of the time I am sitting in front of my computer or my casablanca.
By the way, next time I would like to ask my friends something about casablanca
and computer editing programmes. Dave Watterson asked me how I edit my films
and also the members of the Cheadle and Gatley Cine & Video Club in Manchester
would like to know. I love my casablanca, but at the moment I cannot make
any mini-DV's or DVD's. God, help me !
>

"Willy Van der Linden" <vanderlindenhig@telenet.be> wrote:

"AnimatioN" <Animation@btinternet.com> wrote:
Yes Willy,
Our TV is utter crap (but probably one of the best!)
We litter our streets more than many!
We have more football holigans than most!
We mug and rape old ladies!
We have one of the largest prison populations!
We have, so called British, willing to kill us all.

I didn't know the word "crap", Albert. Now I know. Bad word, according
to
my dictionary. Last week I gave a birthday card to my English friend. I
had bought it in a car park on the M5 motorway. On it was a picture of a
packet full of seeds of Brussels sprouts. Next to it : Happy birthday "Good
Old Fart !" I didn't understand the word "fart". Brian started laughing
with
it. Now I know the meaning of "fart". In my film about my friend Brian he
will receive an envelope from me and he will say something like : "Oh, I've
received a letter from Willy, the good old tart !" He opens the envelope
with his birthday card in it and he reads : "Good Old Tart !".

Yes Willy, crap means shit as you have discovered,
somewhat connected to fart!

The BBC is perhaps the best TV channel in the world. But it is a pity that
there are only 4 channels in England. BBC1 and 2, Channel 4 and an other
one. Here on the continent we have an enormous choice. We have 24 channels
! So we can watch many, many films. I wonder why Britain has only 4 channels.
Do you know why ? For film makers it's good that there are many channels
on TV. Don't you think so ? I myself don't like the satellite dishes. They
are ugly.

Don't forget that although we only have 4 terestrial channels we do have
many Sky channels too. (well I don't!!) So the rubbish rains down
from the sky with the rain too!

Dishes ugly? Many years ago when we only had B/W TV the frequency
was such that the dipole aerials we used were about 10 foot long!! I use
feet rather than metres as they were English aerials!
Ah, bring back the foot,inch and yard!

An "unexpected" reply from me, Albert on "We litter our streets more than
many !" In April I was back in London after three or four years. London
was tidy ! I was surprised ! It was not like that three or four years ago.
And there were new buses and new cabs in different colours. Everything
was
clean. London was "refreshing". Also in the underground "you could eat from
the ground" (that's a Flemish expression). I told my English friend. "It
seems that there is prosperity in England".

I haven't been to London for a few years, but I bet the kids still
spit their chewing gum all over the pavements! And you only saw the best
parts no doubt, kept especially clean for visitors by the mayor of
London!!
I much prefered the "London Transport" buses all uniform in colour as
were the telephone kiosks. But I suppose as the citizens are all
multi coloured now why not the cabs too!

"Football Hooligans". When I was a teacher in a secondary school I tried
to enthuse my students by attending matches on Tottenham, Queens Park Rangers,
West Ham, Arsenal and other London football grounds. I remember I was a
bit
afraid the last time on Arsenal. It was a London derby. But now it seems
that everything is alright. The tragedy in Brussels with the Liverpool supporters
was twenty years ago. The situation has improved. Do not exaggerate, Albert.

Aw OK, Willy, but I like to stir up things as well as my coffee!!

An other "unexpected" reply on "We have one of the largest prison populations."
- I would like to give you a reply to it though it has nothing to do with
film making. - In Belgium our prisons are "bursting", Albert. They are
overcrowded
and so are our refugee camps. More and more people from the South and East
are hoping to get to England, "The Beloved Country"... Those poor or unhappy
people are put in airplanes and sent back to their own country. A big problem.
Our warders are on strike from time to time. They cannot control the numbers
of prisoners or refugees anymore. "Make Poverty History". That's the solution.
We should help those people in their own country so that they are not eager
to live with us anymore and perhaps that we are eager to live with them
in
their country.

Yes, one cannot blame peoples who seek the 'pavements paved with gold'
as they may have been told. But I do get very uneasy when I see parts
of England which no longer look, speak, or have the culture of English.

But one mustn't say anything about that over here or one is
branded a rascist.

Now it's time to work on my film or to make a short trip on my bike to keep
fit.

The film will keep your brain fit, the bike keep the body fit.
Maybe think hard about the film whilst on the bike and so, 'Kill two
birds with one stone!' (that may be a good film title?)

Most of the time I am sitting in front of my computer or my casablanca.

"Play it again, Sam." (quotation from film, Casablanca!)

By the way, next time I would like to ask my friends something about casablanca
and computer editing programmes. Dave Watterson asked me how I edit my films
and also the members of the Cheadle and Gatley Cine & Video Club in Manchester
would like to know. I love my casablanca, but at the moment I cannot make
any mini-DV's or DVD's. God, help me !

I don't think he will. Are you a believer then, Willy?
Me? I gave up believing in a creator long before I gave up believing
in Father Xmas as a child.....
....because Father Xmas seemed much more plausable to me!
Take care, Willy.
Albert......

I am not sure which country Willy visits or Albert lives in ...

In most of the UK there have been five free broadcast television channels
for some years. These need just the usual tv set and aerial.

Add a freeview box and maybe a slightly better aerial and much of the country
gets a lot more channels on this digital service. Around 30 of those are
free.

Add a satellite dish and there are over a hundred digital channels that do
not require a subscription. In the UK subscribe to the lowest cost Sky deal
for one year then close your subscription. You keep the dish and decoder
with free access to those channels.


Buy a more expensive steerable satellite dish and you can receive hundreds
of digital tv channels from all over Europe without a further subscription.

And if you are willing to pay for subs to Sky or other satellite companies
...

And many of those free channels show lots of films.

Some parts of the country also have subscription cable television networks.

The question I have is ... how many amateur movie makers watch any professional
films?

Sometimes it seems few of them do. At a recent festival one of the judges
made frequent reference to commercial movies ("this reminds me of xxx") and
lots of the audience were shrugging their shoulders in ignorance.

Dave (dished) Watterson

"Dave Watterson" <david.filmsocs@virgin.net> wrote:

I
Sometimes it seems few of them do. At a recent festival one of the judges
made frequent reference to commercial movies ("this reminds me of xxx")
and
lots of the audience were shrugging their shoulders in ignorance.

Dave (dished) Watterson

Thanks for telling me, Dave. I always spend my English nights in B & B's.
They're always very clean and the service is always excellent. All rooms
have a TV-set, but I can only choose one of the four channels I have mentioned.
And my English friend ? He never watches TV. He never reads a newspaper,
but he listens to the radio and he can talk about everyday life and about
politics in England and abroad as anybody else. But okay, I believe you,
Dave.
"This reminds me of xxx"... I'm not shrugging my shoulders in ignorance.
I even think that it's "xxxx". I always ask a pint of "four x" at the bar
in England. It's better than Stella.

"Dave Watterson" <david.filmsocs@virgin.net> wrote:

I am not sure which country Willy visits or Albert lives in ...

I live in Cloud Cuckoo land. Didn't you know, Dave?

In most of the UK there have been five free broadcast television channels
for some years. These need just the usual tv set and aerial.

Ah yes, five instead of the four I mentioned. That's a 25% increase in
what I thought was churned out by these 24/7 monsters that we have created.
They must be fed continuously.....
We have seen the tiger and the lion dissected time and time again,
by you know who.
The Outer Mongolian Rattlesnake has had his TV day many times over.
The Lesser spotted long tailed short arsed fat bellied interstella
goat walker, has been seen 3 times already, with 2 repeats
planned for the Autumn.. (that was Channel 5 BTW)

So what next? Antiques from the moon?
Cooking on Mars? DIY under water?
Buying a house in 'God knows where?' Listen to the whining voices
of the female reporters?
(Listen to Caroline Hawley as an example!!)..no please don't!

Add a freeview box and maybe a slightly better aerial and much of the country
gets a lot more channels on this digital service. Around 30 of those are
free.

You never get anything worth having, for nothing in this world, do you?

Buy a more expensive steerable satellite dish and you can receive hundreds
of digital tv channels from all over Europe without a further subscription.

Buy an even dearer one and you can soon get 100,006 channels from
Proxima Centura!

The question I have is ... how many amateur movie makers watch any professional
films?

I've just watched James Bond's "Thunderball," on ITV. hee hee hee hee!
Must dash now. Got to see, er, er, what was it?
Ah, "The Life of 50 million Couched Potatoes."

Dave (dished) Watterson
Albert......dashed.

It's interesting that Albert, a fine animator, who likes to work in miniature
scale has been watching an effects-filled feature like 'Thunderball'. I
know that Michael Slowe is also a great watcher of feature films and his
speciality is documentary. How many fiction film makers spemd enough time
watching movies?

In other countries television stations sometimes broadcast amateur films
as part of the regular programming. Amateur fiction films are billed just
as if they were professional ones. In Britain amateur work is only shown
if it has some historical value or in a way which makes fun of the people
dedicated to making their own movies.

Would it help if British tv ever took our work seriously and showed some
of it without joking about it?

Dave

"Dave Watterson" <david.filmsocs@virgin.net> wrote:

It's interesting that Albert, who likes to work in miniature
scale has been watching an effects-filled feature like 'Thunderball'.

We all like to relax at times and be entertained at a fast pace,
if that's not a contradiction. To be rushed along from one situation
to the next without a pause for breath, something which amateur films
seldom, if ever, are capable of doing as they plod wearily on to
the bitter end.
I also have the complete "Alien" collection for the same reason!

In other countries television stations sometimes broadcast amateur films
as part of the regular programming. Amateur fiction films are billed just
as if they were professional ones. In Britain amateur work is only shown
if it has some historical value or in a way which makes fun of the people
dedicated to making their own movies.

I have on may times written in answer to TV requests for material,
pointing out that they are only interested in us when it suits
their programming schedules, but as you would expect never get an answer.

'Slap happy,' has its roots in the showing of unfortunate folk meeting
with accidents, don't forget, so TV has a lot to answer for.

Would it help if British tv ever took our work seriously and showed some
of it without joking about it?

They never will because TV is aimed at the 25-40 year old mostly,
who wish to take part/watch stupid quiz shows and all the rest.
The soaps/sport leave the amateur film well, well behind in the
popularity stakes, so will never get a showing until such time,
*if ever*, we get a quality minority TV channel like the old 'Third
program' on the radio. ( I nearly said, "wireless.")

Albert.....
http://www.retinascope.co.uk/index.html

"Dave Watterson" <david.filmsocs@virgin.net> wrote:

I am not sure which country Willy visits or Albert lives in ...

In most of the UK there have been five free broadcast television channels
for some years. These need just the usual tv set and aerial.

Add a freeview box and maybe a slightly better aerial and much of the country
gets a lot more channels on this digital service. Around 30 of those are
free.

Add a satellite dish and there are over a hundred digital channels that
do
not require a subscription. In the UK subscribe to the lowest cost Sky deal
for one year then close your subscription. You keep the dish and decoder
with free access to those channels.


Buy a more expensive steerable satellite dish and you can receive hundreds
of digital tv channels from all over Europe without a further subscription.

And if you are willing to pay for subs to Sky or other satellite companies
...

And many of those free channels show lots of films.

Some parts of the country also have subscription cable television networks.

The question I have is ... how many amateur movie makers watch any professional
films?

Sometimes it seems few of them do. At a recent festival one of the judges
made frequent reference to commercial movies ("this reminds me of xxx")
and
lots of the audience were shrugging their shoulders in ignorance.

Dave (dished) Watterson

At last a sensible thread on this forum!
So much good sense posted by people I respect. Firstly Albert you are too
liberal in your condemnation of all TV. Of course there is a lot of rubbish
aimed at the lowest
common denominator and you have to be so much more selective than in say
the 1960's with only three channels. Good stuff is there if you look, particularly
in the documentary fiield (my own preference as Dave points out). Keep an
eye on BBC 4 and Channel Four as well as the Sky Discovery, History etc.
The best feature films I find seem to be on TCM Channel (goodness knows
where that comes from!) I don't have a dish but do subscribe to the London
cable company NTL, shortly, it is thought, to merge with Tele West. You
get a lot of what you don't want but be selective.
Dave, of course amateurs don't watch enough films, except their own. The
proper place to watch film is in a cinema with a decent size screen, properly
focussed and maintained projector and modern sound kit (with volume set at
a sensible level) add to that decent seats and carefully selected films.
Last evening I enjoyed an evening at the famous Everyman cinema in Hampstead,
newly refurbished, two screens, one with armchairs and space for drinks aircraft
style. So much more impact than a TV screen, even a large plasma which,
I must admit, comes closer but not close enough.
As to our films gaining access to, and acceptance by, the wider public I
maintain that this surely should be the aim of every film maker. We just
have to get better at what we do and above all look at what the best film
makers, amateur and professional, are doing and have done in the past. The
latter point is crucial and in this connection I have just obtained a DVD
on the work of the late Humphrey Jennings, a documentary film maker during
the second world war and just after. His 'Listen To Britain', made as a
morale booster in 1943 is unsurpassable and with not one spoken word! If
anyone wants a copy ask and I will post the details.