I use FCP3 on a Mac G4 for the serious stuff but I have never learned to love
FCP, it was designed by computer nerds and not editors. On the PC I have
CineStream 3.1, the final incarnation of good ol EditDV the editors NLE if
ever there was one. Totally intuitive, incredibly flexible but now as dead
as a doornail after having been passed from Media 100 to Discreet to the
trash bin of lost causes and completely out of date - the sort of betamax
of the NLE world. I could knock together a piece on Cinestream in half the
time it takes on FCP but it's time to say good-bye to CS and find a GOOD
replacement NLE for the PC. Any suggestions? Have you seen that Media 100
have cut the price of their flagship system by 56% now available for a mere
USD26,000 I bet they get somne rude letters from the people who bought at
USD60,000!!
Ned C
A new NLE
-
Michael Slowe
Re: A new NLE
"Ned C" <forums@theiac.org.uk> wrote:
Digital Video in 1998. It is the nearest
thing to actual film editing having been designed by proper film editors
and I am a dedicated fan. You don't need the expensive top end 844 system
that allows commercial producers instant multi multi layering but having
said that it's more expensive than Final Cut Pro. Why don't you investigate
it?
Michael Slowe.
Ned, I have been editing on Media 100 since I returned to film making onI use FCP3 on a Mac G4 for the serious stuff but I have never learned to
love
FCP, it was designed by computer nerds and not editors. On the PC I have
CineStream 3.1, the final incarnation of good ol EditDV the editors NLE
if
ever there was one. Totally intuitive, incredibly flexible but now as dead
as a doornail after having been passed from Media 100 to Discreet to the
trash bin of lost causes and completely out of date - the sort of betamax
of the NLE world. I could knock together a piece on Cinestream in half
the
time it takes on FCP but it's time to say good-bye to CS and find a GOOD
replacement NLE for the PC. Any suggestions? Have you seen that Media 100
have cut the price of their flagship system by 56% now available for a mere
USD26,000 I bet they get somne rude letters from the people who bought at
USD60,000!!
Ned C
Digital Video in 1998. It is the nearest
thing to actual film editing having been designed by proper film editors
and I am a dedicated fan. You don't need the expensive top end 844 system
that allows commercial producers instant multi multi layering but having
said that it's more expensive than Final Cut Pro. Why don't you investigate
it?
Michael Slowe.
-
Ned C
Re: A new NLE
"Michael Slowe" <michael.slowe@btinternet.com> wrote:
100. I have visited the Media 100 site and will revisit it but I am concerned
about Media 100's ability to survive in the very competitive market that
now exists, their stock is still below USD1 and I don't think anyone is interested
in rescuing them if they go under, the huge price cut is not really good
news there is a whiff of panic there. I will be at NAB in April and will
visit all the NLE suppliers and see what is about now that appeals. Any other
suggestions?
ned C
>
Michael, thanks for your suggestion. I learnt NLEditing on a very early Media
Ned, I have been editing on Media 100 since I returned to film making on
Digital Video in 1998. It is the nearest
thing to actual film editing having been designed by proper film editors
and I am a dedicated fan. You don't need the expensive top end 844 system
that allows commercial producers instant multi multi layering but having
said that it's more expensive than Final Cut Pro. Why don't you investigate
it?
Michael Slowe.
100. I have visited the Media 100 site and will revisit it but I am concerned
about Media 100's ability to survive in the very competitive market that
now exists, their stock is still below USD1 and I don't think anyone is interested
in rescuing them if they go under, the huge price cut is not really good
news there is a whiff of panic there. I will be at NAB in April and will
visit all the NLE suppliers and see what is about now that appeals. Any other
suggestions?
ned C
>
-
Atta Chui
Re: A new NLE
Ned,
I use Canopus' Storm2 and am already considering myself very lucky. I know
Matrox's X100 is another popular choice, while many audience on this forum
would use something more economical. What do you think a high end editing
suite can help to make a good amatuer movie (so maybe some of us would think
harder about investing on it), or is it just because you also use the system
to make boardcasting material for work?
Personally, I feel that the human creativity is a more important factor,
but then, hey, I have not even touched a high-end machine, so I'm not sure
what they can do...
Atta
PS. anyone knows where I can find information about how to give DV footage
a "film look"?
I use Canopus' Storm2 and am already considering myself very lucky. I know
Matrox's X100 is another popular choice, while many audience on this forum
would use something more economical. What do you think a high end editing
suite can help to make a good amatuer movie (so maybe some of us would think
harder about investing on it), or is it just because you also use the system
to make boardcasting material for work?
Personally, I feel that the human creativity is a more important factor,
but then, hey, I have not even touched a high-end machine, so I'm not sure
what they can do...
Atta
PS. anyone knows where I can find information about how to give DV footage
a "film look"?
-
Brian Hazelden
Re: A new NLE
"Atta Chui" <iac.web@ntlworld.com> wrote:
http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/forumdisplay ... forumid=34
Brian
Have a look at :-PS. anyone knows where I can find information about how to give DV footage
a "film look"?
http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/forumdisplay ... forumid=34
Brian
-
AN
Re: A new NLE
"Brian Hazelden" <brian_hazelden@lineone.net> wrote:
Albert....binning it.
Wotcha Brian, where you bin?Brian
Albert....binning it.
-
Brian Hazelden
Re: A new NLE
"AN" <AnimatioN@btopenworld.com> wrote:
2 kids at uni tends to concentrate the mind
2 weeks off now for Xmas, oh bliss!
Busy Brian
Bin very busy ....... working unfortunately, not making movies."Brian Hazelden" <brian_hazelden@lineone.net> wrote:
Brian
Wotcha Brian, where you bin?
Albert....binning it.
Hi Albert and all,
2 kids at uni tends to concentrate the mind
2 weeks off now for Xmas, oh bliss!
Busy Brian
-
Michael Slowe
Re: A new NLE
"Ned C" <ned@fred.com> wrote:
years and they have just closed their UK office and control Europe from Paris
now. But the stuff is great and I am not even on the latest update. On Mac
OS9 and the last Media 100 that doesn't need OSX and it's rock steady, has
all the features I need or want and there is no need to think that the system
won't run and run long enough for me! Actually I think that they will be
producing some more wonders but it's not really necessary for straightforward
editing. I have 8 audio tracks with EQ possibilities, colour, contrast and
brightness changes, instant speed changes, mixes etc,etc. Boris Graffiti
for graphics and I'm very happy. The thing is it's film editing exactly
except faster and more accurate with no cutting copies needed!
Michael Slowe.
Ned, I know all about the panic talk over Media 100, it's been going on for"Michael Slowe" <michael.slowe@btinternet.com> wrote:
Ned, I have been editing on Media 100 since I returned to film making on
Digital Video in 1998. It is the nearest
thing to actual film editing having been designed by proper film editors
and I am a dedicated fan. You don't need the expensive top end 844 system
that allows commercial producers instant multi multi layering but having
said that it's more expensive than Final Cut Pro. Why don't you investigate
it?
Michael Slowe.
Michael, thanks for your suggestion. I learnt NLEditing on a very early
Media
100. I have visited the Media 100 site and will revisit it but I am concerned
about Media 100's ability to survive in the very competitive market that
now exists, their stock is still below USD1 and I don't think anyone is
interested
in rescuing them if they go under, the huge price cut is not really good
news there is a whiff of panic there. I will be at NAB in April and will
visit all the NLE suppliers and see what is about now that appeals. Any
other
suggestions?
ned C
years and they have just closed their UK office and control Europe from Paris
now. But the stuff is great and I am not even on the latest update. On Mac
OS9 and the last Media 100 that doesn't need OSX and it's rock steady, has
all the features I need or want and there is no need to think that the system
won't run and run long enough for me! Actually I think that they will be
producing some more wonders but it's not really necessary for straightforward
editing. I have 8 audio tracks with EQ possibilities, colour, contrast and
brightness changes, instant speed changes, mixes etc,etc. Boris Graffiti
for graphics and I'm very happy. The thing is it's film editing exactly
except faster and more accurate with no cutting copies needed!
Michael Slowe.
-
Ned C
Re: A new NLE
"Atta Chui" <iac.web@ntlworld.com> wrote:
of systems they know are "professional" so FCP, Avid and Media 100 all have
relatively inexpensive systems that are well respected in the industry. Adobe
Premier has always been regarded as a sort of superior amateur program although
it can do most of the things the above can (in some cases, more), this is
why they have introduced Premier Pro to much fanfare to compete with the
above plus Pinnacle Edition and Liquid Purple (?). The really high end stuff
is Quantel,the high end Avids and Media 100s with blinding speeds, real time
multi stream compositing and prices to match. I agree, it is not the equipment
that makes a good movie but the person using it. The high end systems theoretically
offer faster rendering and better media management so that large amounts
of information can be quickly and easily handled alomng with multi streaminm.
I use a very good British program for pre-production media management, this
is CatDV and I use the personal version, it works very well. www.catdv.com
Ned C
Hi Atta, I still earn a crust as an editor and clients expect to hear namesNed,
I use Canopus' Storm2 and am already considering myself very lucky. I know
Matrox's X100 is another popular choice, while many audience on this forum
would use something more economical. What do you think a high end editing
suite can help to make a good amatuer movie (so maybe some of us would think
harder about investing on it), or is it just because you also use the system
to make boardcasting material for work?
Personally, I feel that the human creativity is a more important factor,
but then, hey, I have not even touched a high-end machine, so I'm not sure
what they can do...
Atta
PS. anyone knows where I can find information about how to give DV footage
a "film look"?
of systems they know are "professional" so FCP, Avid and Media 100 all have
relatively inexpensive systems that are well respected in the industry. Adobe
Premier has always been regarded as a sort of superior amateur program although
it can do most of the things the above can (in some cases, more), this is
why they have introduced Premier Pro to much fanfare to compete with the
above plus Pinnacle Edition and Liquid Purple (?). The really high end stuff
is Quantel,the high end Avids and Media 100s with blinding speeds, real time
multi stream compositing and prices to match. I agree, it is not the equipment
that makes a good movie but the person using it. The high end systems theoretically
offer faster rendering and better media management so that large amounts
of information can be quickly and easily handled alomng with multi streaminm.
I use a very good British program for pre-production media management, this
is CatDV and I use the personal version, it works very well. www.catdv.com
Ned C
-
iMan
Re: A new NLE
Ned you are sooooo wrong about FCP been developed by computer nerds. It was
in fact designed by one of the guys who designed Premier (nerdy programme
admittedly) and part of the team that designed AVID (the Hollywood used AVID
symp, not silly AVID Xpress DV which is an off-liner programme).
Go buy FCP4 and buy some books and really learn the programme. The BBC’s
edit studios have just ditched 6 of their AVID machines because they can’t
do half what FVP4 can and they are too unstable (that’s why they had 6 as
4 of them where always down).
As for Media 100, that is finished “Big Time” Media just haven’t developed
their package in 5 years, it’s old, rusty and has about 18 months left to
live, the programme has cancer. Buy at your own risk, their support is non
existent and believe me if you can’t even figure out a simple little programme
like FCP you will last as long as a snowflake in hell with Media 100.
As for Cinestream, well that is a Childs programme to use in their bedroom,
it’s okay if you just want to mess around with the holiday footage, but that’s
about it.
Trust me upgrade to latest FCP run it on Panther with DVDSP2 and Combustion
and you will be in the same league as Hollywood.
And for gods sake throw that damn PC in the skip and buy another Mac, even
an iMac, how can you possibly have both in the same room, scratches head!!
in fact designed by one of the guys who designed Premier (nerdy programme
admittedly) and part of the team that designed AVID (the Hollywood used AVID
symp, not silly AVID Xpress DV which is an off-liner programme).
Go buy FCP4 and buy some books and really learn the programme. The BBC’s
edit studios have just ditched 6 of their AVID machines because they can’t
do half what FVP4 can and they are too unstable (that’s why they had 6 as
4 of them where always down).
As for Media 100, that is finished “Big Time” Media just haven’t developed
their package in 5 years, it’s old, rusty and has about 18 months left to
live, the programme has cancer. Buy at your own risk, their support is non
existent and believe me if you can’t even figure out a simple little programme
like FCP you will last as long as a snowflake in hell with Media 100.
As for Cinestream, well that is a Childs programme to use in their bedroom,
it’s okay if you just want to mess around with the holiday footage, but that’s
about it.
Trust me upgrade to latest FCP run it on Panther with DVDSP2 and Combustion
and you will be in the same league as Hollywood.
And for gods sake throw that damn PC in the skip and buy another Mac, even
an iMac, how can you possibly have both in the same room, scratches head!!
-
Ned C
Re: A new NLE
"iMan" <nigel.mvp@virgin.net> wrote:
had to be extensively revised to make it useable. Avid DV Xpres is an on
-line program to those of us who work in the undergrowth of DV25 production.
I do realise that not working in uncompressed HD does expose me to a lot
of criticism but there is a LOT of production in the SD DV25 world.
FCP3 is a clunky program in many ways. For example, I work in both NTSC and
PAL 4:3 and 16:9, the presets in FCP are universal so if I have been working
in PAL 16:9 and want to work on another project in say NTSC 4:3 then I have
to readjust all the presets. Yes, there is a work around, create a separate
user for each set of presets. The titler remains hopelessly primitive, different
font sizes in one title require setting two titles or using a plug-in. The
media management is poor, how do you identify which render files apply to
which project if you have multiple projects under way with the same presets?
and real time (real REAL time that is). Absolutely at the cutting edge but
sadly I agree that Media 100 are probably not going to survive. The price
cut from USD50,000 to USD26,000 says something about their state.
Cinestream before I left England. Cinestream in its final version could do
everything FCP2 could do and then some and everyone agreed that the Radius
DV CoDec was the best around. Editing is about the skill of the editor, certainly
helped by the power of the program, but it is the person that counts, not
the software. I am sure a good editor could use Pinnacle Studio and easily
outperform a poor editor on FCP4 in terms of viewable content.
edited Cold Mountain on FCP3 but real feature films (not the special FX laden
junk) are edited on the basis of finding the exact cut point and there is
little use of compositing. For composited FX these are sent out to a specialist
studio.
has with his computer (its almost invariably a him), I am sure that the psychologists
could have a freudian field day with that one. Its just a machine, and I
aim to use the machine/software that does the job not have a loving relationship
with it. I started when we could hol;d the pictures up to the light and see
them and a pair of scissors made the cuts and we had no idea what a transition
really looked like ubtil we go the answer print, no, I don't want to go back
to that computer based NLE is much more creative. Thanks for the comments,
Nigel, and a Happy New Year.
Ned C
>
FCP started its life somewhere in MacroMedia and the early version, FCP1Ned you are sooooo wrong about FCP been developed by computer nerds. It
was
in fact designed by one of the guys who designed Premier (nerdy programme
admittedly) and part of the team that designed AVID (the Hollywood used
AVID
symp, not silly AVID Xpress DV which is an off-liner programme).
had to be extensively revised to make it useable. Avid DV Xpres is an on
-line program to those of us who work in the undergrowth of DV25 production.
I do realise that not working in uncompressed HD does expose me to a lot
of criticism but there is a LOT of production in the SD DV25 world.
FCP3 quits every now and then, gracefully I will admit but it does quit.Go buy FCP4 and buy some books and really learn the programme. The BBC’s
edit studios have just ditched 6 of their AVID machines because they can’t
do half what FVP4 can and they are too unstable (that’s why they had 6 as
4 of them where always down).
FCP3 is a clunky program in many ways. For example, I work in both NTSC and
PAL 4:3 and 16:9, the presets in FCP are universal so if I have been working
in PAL 16:9 and want to work on another project in say NTSC 4:3 then I have
to readjust all the presets. Yes, there is a work around, create a separate
user for each set of presets. The titler remains hopelessly primitive, different
font sizes in one title require setting two titles or using a plug-in. The
media management is poor, how do you identify which render files apply to
which project if you have multiple projects under way with the same presets?
Actually Media 100 have a relatively new package that is awesome, fast, multistreamAs for Media 100, that is finished “Big Time” Media just haven’t developed
their package in 5 years, it’s old, rusty and has about 18 months left to
live, the programme has cancer. Buy at your own risk, their support is non
existent and believe me if you can’t even figure out a simple little programme
like FCP you will last as long as a snowflake in hell with Media 100.
and real time (real REAL time that is). Absolutely at the cutting edge but
sadly I agree that Media 100 are probably not going to survive. The price
cut from USD50,000 to USD26,000 says something about their state.
Hmmmmm, where to start. I earned a good living with EditDV and subsequentlyAs for Cinestream, well that is a Childs programme to use in their bedroom,
it’s okay if you just want to mess around with the holiday footage, but
that’s
about it.
Cinestream before I left England. Cinestream in its final version could do
everything FCP2 could do and then some and everyone agreed that the Radius
DV CoDec was the best around. Editing is about the skill of the editor, certainly
helped by the power of the program, but it is the person that counts, not
the software. I am sure a good editor could use Pinnacle Studio and easily
outperform a poor editor on FCP4 in terms of viewable content.
Which version of Hollywood are you refering to? My editing hero, Walter Murch,Trust me upgrade to latest FCP run it on Panther with DVDSP2 and Combustion
and you will be in the same league as Hollywood.
edited Cold Mountain on FCP3 but real feature films (not the special FX laden
junk) are edited on the basis of finding the exact cut point and there is
little use of compositing. For composited FX these are sent out to a specialist
studio.
I have alwsys been intrigued by the relationship the true Mac afficianadoAnd for gods sake throw that damn PC in the skip and buy another Mac, even
an iMac, how can you possibly have both in the same room, scratches head!!
has with his computer (its almost invariably a him), I am sure that the psychologists
could have a freudian field day with that one. Its just a machine, and I
aim to use the machine/software that does the job not have a loving relationship
with it. I started when we could hol;d the pictures up to the light and see
them and a pair of scissors made the cuts and we had no idea what a transition
really looked like ubtil we go the answer print, no, I don't want to go back
to that computer based NLE is much more creative. Thanks for the comments,
Nigel, and a Happy New Year.
Ned C
>