IAC DISCUSSION FORUMS

http://www.8mm.filmshooting.com/scripts ... highlight=

Regarding the IAC library and how to reach a wider audience, there are some
folks on another board who are trying to make a group DVD using material
from film makers all over the world. It seems cumbersome.

I came up with a idea that may work in an automated way. Have a read on the
above link to the thread started to promote this not very original idea.
No doubt, broadband would be required for the added speed; that should be
easier and easier as more are subscribing and new lines are being installed.
DVD is not required at present, it'd be nice, but the amount of data would
be intense.

BTW, PC viewing of NTSC or PAL files is not a problem. A PC plays both like
UK TV sets do and unlike US TV sets which don't.

See Ya, (on a CD?)

Michael Carter

That DVD thread looks good, however, I have no Pal or MiniDV. I DO have a
WorkPrinter XP and a NTSC Hi-8 video camera and a CD burner. SVCD disks I
burn look and play fantastic on my wide screen TV. That said, I'm not quite
up to speed with you guys, and I thought of things past.

Ever go into a lunch diner train car along side the road, sit in the plastic,
Formica, chrome booth, and drop a few quarters into the little juke box at
the table? Somewhere in the diner is a BIG bubbly juke box that starts to
play your selections.

Ever go the the amusement park and in the penny arcade get a hand stamped
coin that you make yourself by selecting letters with a big metal dial and
pulling a cast iron lever?

Put the two together and consider a collection of VCD 352x240 NTSC film files
on line with a description of each with a picture or two. Click all your
selections and download, then, burn yourself a VCD at home, using your CD
burner. Tutorials are on line at DVDhelp.com and could be along with the
descriptions. I mean, everyone already has a CD burner. And if it is more
quality you desire you could opt for larger SVCD files to download.

IAC has initially discussed this issue regarding their HUGE ancient library
of old films and videos. Nothing has come of it as yet, but you never know
what is going on behind the scenes. I did already rent some videos from them.
It was expensive and a hassle to mail them back and forth, but it worked.


If all those films were transferred to one or two standard formats, such
as VCD and or SVCD, put on line, then customers could make their own selections,
download what they select, and burn the disk themselves. I choose SVCD because
it is no different than my camera tape playback.

PayPal could be attached to the web site, a small cover cost charged or suggested
to cover bandwidth usage, and payment could be made easily and without effort,
using any kind of money from any kind of account from anywhere in the world.
PHEW!

This site site ALREADY HAs a huge collection of films on line ready to download.
I did all of mine, added more from my web site (not to here) and another
disk and put them all onto a CD. It could be a VCD but I'd need nested menus,
and more mpg vcd conversions, since there are so many different files and
I haven't done that in a while. Shouldn't be a problem though. I'd done it
before and have the VCD sample disks.

Such an operation can be started right now since the films are there / here
waiting for download. You just don't know exactly what each one is. PayPal
is already there, too, waiting for donations.

Why not consider making NTSC film versions of your films, upload them here,
make a description file with links to each for us?

I really don't know what to do about PAL since I don't have one. There are
conversion programs that work, which are free is another matter.
An entire pal selection could be made or each movie could be in both? That
seems to be redundant.

DVD files are too large to download, although my brother in law does MERC
full length movies. They didn't look like DVD quality. Somebody could do
a lot of work making 100 DVD disks and mailing them out. Or, we could make
it fully automated and self serve ourselves.

What say you?


no reply to the above so I deleted it there and moved it here

"Michael Carter" <mcarter@16mmoviemakingnospam.com> wrote:

That DVD thread looks good, however, I have no Pal or MiniDV. I DO have
a
WorkPrinter XP and a NTSC Hi-8 video camera and a CD burner. SVCD disks
I
burn look and play fantastic on my wide screen TV. That said, I'm not quite
up to speed with you guys, and I thought of things past.

Ever go into a lunch diner train car along side the road, sit in the plastic,
Formica, chrome booth, and drop a few quarters into the little juke box
at
the table? Somewhere in the diner is a BIG bubbly juke box that starts to
play your selections.

Ever go the the amusement park and in the penny arcade get a hand stamped
coin that you make yourself by selecting letters with a big metal dial and
pulling a cast iron lever?

Put the two together and consider a collection of VCD 352x240 NTSC film
files
on line with a description of each with a picture or two. Click all your
selections and download, then, burn yourself a VCD at home, using your CD
burner. Tutorials are on line at DVDhelp.com and could be along with the
descriptions. I mean, everyone already has a CD burner. And if it is more
quality you desire you could opt for larger SVCD files to download.

IAC has initially discussed this issue regarding their HUGE ancient library
of old films and videos. Nothing has come of it as yet, but you never know
what is going on behind the scenes. I did already rent some videos from
them.
It was expensive and a hassle to mail them back and forth, but it worked.


If all those films were transferred to one or two standard formats, such
as VCD and or SVCD, put on line, then customers could make their own selections,
download what they select, and burn the disk themselves. I choose SVCD because
it is no different than my camera tape playback.

PayPal could be attached to the web site, a small cover cost charged or
suggested
to cover bandwidth usage, and payment could be made easily and without effort,
using any kind of money from any kind of account from anywhere in the world.
PHEW!

This site site ALREADY HAs a huge collection of films on line ready to download.
I did all of mine, added more from my web site (not to here) and another
disk and put them all onto a CD. It could be a VCD but I'd need nested menus,
and more mpg vcd conversions, since there are so many different files and
I haven't done that in a while. Shouldn't be a problem though. I'd done
it
before and have the VCD sample disks.

Such an operation can be started right now since the films are there / here
waiting for download. You just don't know exactly what each one is. PayPal
is already there, too, waiting for donations.

Why not consider making NTSC film versions of your films, upload them here,
make a description file with links to each for us?

I really don't know what to do about PAL since I don't have one. There are
conversion programs that work, which are free is another matter.
An entire pal selection could be made or each movie could be in both? That
seems to be redundant.

DVD files are too large to download, although my brother in law does MERC
full length movies. They didn't look like DVD quality. Somebody could do
a lot of work making 100 DVD disks and mailing them out. Or, we could make
it fully automated and self serve ourselves.

What say you?


no reply to the above so I deleted it there and moved it here

Mr. Carter, you raise a lot of issues here. Firstly not everyone in the UK
has a DV burner yet but yes it will come about eventually. The whole IAC
library will I am sure end up on DVD within ten years. However to burn decent
DVD's from our editing computers they have to be transferred to MPEG 2 files
first I believe. Also the question of universal compatability as far as
playback has to be resolved.

I don't think film makers in Europe are very interested in transferring their
films to NTSC unless a particular need arises. We hope that eventually it
is replaced anyway, maybe when the new High Definition comes in.

Finally, much as those of us that have films in the IAC library would welcome
it, there are insoluble problems with copyright when it comes to putting
films on the web for downloading, especially for payment. That is for films
using music that has not been specially commissioned.

Michael,

When they stick you back in the mud you'd better opt for head down, otherwise
you're not gonna like what you see in the next 10 months, let alone the next
10 years

Brian Hazelden

"Michael Slowe" <michael.slowe@btinternet.com> wrote:

Mr. Carter, you raise a lot of issues here. Firstly not everyone in the
UK
has a DV burner yet but yes it will come about eventually. The whole IAC
library will I am sure end up on DVD within ten years. However to burn decent
DVD's from our editing computers they have to be transferred to MPEG 2 files
first I believe. Also the question of universal compatability as far as
playback has to be resolved.

I don't think film makers in Europe are very interested in transferring
their
films to NTSC unless a particular need arises. We hope that eventually it
is replaced anyway, maybe when the new High Definition comes in.

Finally, much as those of us that have films in the IAC library would welcome
it, there are insoluble problems with copyright when it comes to putting
films on the web for downloading, especially for payment. That is for films
using music that has not been specially commissioned.

"Brian Hazelden" <brian_hazelden@lineone.net> wrote:

Michael,

When they stick you back in the mud you'd better opt for head down, otherwise
you're not gonna like what you see in the next 10 months, let alone the
next
10 years

Brian, can you expand on that? I thought Michael's points sensible ones

... I'm off to bury myself in the mud too!

By the way for anyone not familiar with emoticons the sign needs to be
looked at sideways to see the face it is supposed to suggest. That one looks
like a wink to me!

Dave (mud pack) Watterson

8 issues

1) "Not everyone has a DV burner" You don't need one. Use the CD burner.
Most everyone has a CD burner.

2) "IAC on DVD in 10 years" In 10 years there won't BE current DVD anymore
I'm sure. HDTV will rule or better.

3) "Films must be transferred to MPEG first" Films must be transferred to
a computer media first for sure, be it Hi-8 analogue video or DV of some
kind, perhaps even HD if one had that kind of camera. Since we don't, Hi-8
will do. The films I propose to provide on line for downloading will already
BE MPG files, they will already have been encoded into MPEG2 files. No need
for anyone to do that at home. MPG files are much smaller than avi or dv
files.

4) "Universal Compatibility Playback" Pal does not play on US TV sets. NTSC
does play on UK TV sets. NTSC is more Universal.

5) "NTSC is not wanted unless a need arises" I want UK movies to be seen
in the US. US needs NTSC; it is a wide audience.

6) "NTSC (and PAL?) replaced by HD" For sure eventually. My PC will play
any format, NTSC, PAL, HD. My TV won't. Perhaps TV sets will merge with PCs
and become one bigger thing. Apple has a widescreen PC monitor.

7) "Copyright of music" That music should not have been used in the first
place. I bought a 6 CD set of copyright free music for my productions early
on. (Boy am I sick of hearing it, too). Not all the films have that problem
I'm sure. The ones with copyrighted music could be placed into a special
category apart from silent ones or ones with composed music. They could be
offered for viewing in a silent form, better than nothing.

"Downloading for Payment" Consider downloading as Royal Mail fees. No
motor vehicles are required so getting a disk this way is less polluting.
And, you don't have to return it at cost.

Now that last one raised an interesting consideration. Did you ever attend
a book sale at your local Library? As technology advances old books are discarded.
Really cool old books, old 50 years ago, had plans in them on how to build
spark coils, crystal radios, wood and paper gliders, and wooden cog wheel
machines. All gone now. I have collected old cine books at Photo fairs to
hedge against just that.
If we attend to the copyright rules as they are, valuable works for (cine)
interests get out of circulation, become out of print, and unavailable. It
is sort of like all your movies sitting on shelves and not viewed.
I'd like to be able to read anything ever printed on line, be able to download
a text file of it, and print out a copy. That would be like a distributed
library. There is a lot more room in a distributed library. Then, an author
'could' get a pence for every read? Some form of compensation could be arranged.

This idea needs work, but I'm hanging onto my library and perhaps I'll scan
more of them into text files.

My films are already on line.


Here is the way I see my web site developing:

Each of my films would be a page accessed from a menu. There would be a text
description with still photos shown. There would be a VCD file made of the
film as a trailer to view on line; small in size, 352 x 240, MPEG 1, short
snippets of parts of the longer film are shown in a small sized file for
immediate viewing. (done that). This allows the viewer to choose what they
want to download. There would be two links. One would be for the VCD to preview.
Another would be to a larger, full length SVCD file to download. The total
size of all of the SVCD files would need to be added up so you could figure
out how many CD disks would be needed to burn them on. About 35 min will
fit on a 650MB CD disk. I use 700MB disks. PalPal would be a part of it so
contributions or payment for bandwidth (mail) could be made. That means the
movies are free except for delivery costs. BTW, I don't usually burn CD disks
with other peoples movies on them. I just delete them after viewing on my
PC a few times from my hard disk.

Even if downloading were provided free of charge and all paid by me (or the
IAC), Think of it as advertising. Each movie has credits that could be expanded
upon with contact information for commission work, membership applications,
whatever.

This technology is at hand now, widely available, and cheap. Quality is high.
Most PC users have CD burners (not DV). DVD players for TV sets are very
cheap. Mine was had for under 100 USD and now sells for under 60. It plays
SVCDs. Most newer ones do. Otherwise, WinDVD and NERO are needed and they
are often provided with a PC software package upon purchase. I got my first
copies for free. They were cheap to register.

I have some SVCD films on line, somewhere, I just can't see them for all
this mud.

Michael Carter, mud wrestler

This is a link to a SVCD of the same type that would be downloaded to burn
onto a SVCD

ftp://ftp.filmshooting.com/upload/video ... ght480.zip

It is 77.4MB unzipped. 71.9 Zipped. You would download the Zip file then
unzip it to burn or play. It requires you computer to have WINZIP to unzip
it, and WINDVD to play it; to burn it you need NERO and a CD burner. It is
only 3min52sec with sound.

The quality is not as good as I can do lately. This was transferred from
R8mm with a TC-20 Telecine.


If you haven't yet played with mpg files in the SVCD format you may be surprised
at just how nice they can look on a TV set. (not this file but I have daytime
movies).


I believe it is impractical to consider downloading DVDs, even SVCDs are
perhaps too large, they just look so much better than VCDs that I can't resist
them. SVCD looks like SVHS. VCD looks like VHS or less. Here's a thought,
Professional VCD encoders look like DVDs most of the time. I bought '12 Monkeys'
as a VCD from Malaysia on 2 CD disks; it looks great! Way better then any
consumer mpg encoder can do. If a pro encoder were used then VCD format would
be the way to go.

One CD is 650 - 700 MB in size. With Broadband it is possible to do. One
cd would be an overnighter download.

That's the state of the art. It'll get better.