I was struck, once again, at the UNICA Festival by how often movies from other
countries used much more modelled lighting than we usually do.
Most of our work is lit in a bland "television" style that probably had its
origins in studios with multi-camera live shoots and video systems that had
problems handling strong contrasts.
Of course not every movie could or should be shot as film noir - but shadows
are part of life and sometimes having a face partially obscured by one seems
more realistic and a more interesting image.
I'm reminded of last year's movie from the Rouillard brothers, "Endings",
which contrasted film noir style shots in a hospital and in a murder scene,
with full-on bright light in beach scenes and wedding scenes.
On landscape movies the comparison with still photographers is very clear
- still guys wait for the right light, usually in the hour after dawn or
the hour before sunset - while most amateur movie makers shoot in the flat
light around midday.
Why is this?
Dave
Lighting
-
Cinema For Thurso Group
Re: Lighting
Aparently we don't get flat light very much up here. We have looooooooooonnnnnnnnngggggggggg
summer days and short winter days. Overall we get more daylight than the
rest of the country due to our proximity to the north pole (just over the
hill!) Daylight filming for us is morning between 8am and 12.30pm and 2pm
thru to 11pm in summer(3.30am to noon is also a likely schedule depending
on a films requirements. Midwinter is a straight run from 9am to 3.15pm.
The spring and autumn daily averages 12 hours servicable light.
As artificial lighting goes my advice has always been -DON'T USE stage or
film lights for 'natural' interiors, just up the wattage in scale in whatever
lights are present. A 60w table lamp is upped to 100w, a 100w ceiling fixture
will gets 150 or 200w if required. This means that the natural lighting angles
and positions are retained in the location and you don't see a shadow of
a lamp that is meant to be the only light source in the shot.
That said, like all else film light the scene acording to the needs of the
story that is being told.
summer days and short winter days. Overall we get more daylight than the
rest of the country due to our proximity to the north pole (just over the
hill!) Daylight filming for us is morning between 8am and 12.30pm and 2pm
thru to 11pm in summer(3.30am to noon is also a likely schedule depending
on a films requirements. Midwinter is a straight run from 9am to 3.15pm.
The spring and autumn daily averages 12 hours servicable light.
As artificial lighting goes my advice has always been -DON'T USE stage or
film lights for 'natural' interiors, just up the wattage in scale in whatever
lights are present. A 60w table lamp is upped to 100w, a 100w ceiling fixture
will gets 150 or 200w if required. This means that the natural lighting angles
and positions are retained in the location and you don't see a shadow of
a lamp that is meant to be the only light source in the shot.
That said, like all else film light the scene acording to the needs of the
story that is being told.
-
Ian Gardner
Re: Lighting
"Dave Watterson" <forums@theiac.org.uk> wrote:
would have to fill my living room with all the lights in Wembley Stadium!
So I would not be able to film there properly with this type of lighting.
My stuff tends to be a bit grainy so I keep it to a minimum if I have to.
If you`ve got a better video camera then lighting does play an inportant
part of filmmaking. But I like the slightly darker image of modern films
and tv. A good example is Spooks on BBC1 (New series tonight (Sunday).
The first series had there Headquarters in `standard light Setup`. Normal
lighting with a basic whiteish overall apperance. The last series had a much
more sinister darker feel. The lighting was darker with spotlighted blues
and reds etc. It is soo much more loverlyer and sinister and looks a bit
more high tech. Having lighting like this does save money in hireing lights
as there seems to be less OR there are the same but more colours and strong
darker lights (Just like lighting a closeup dark scene outside useing strong
bright dark blues) if you get my point. So it looks like night but is well
lit.
I still don`t know how they film a scene that is nignt inside and looks
pitchblack in the final film. I`ll have to have a play.
An indoor scene still doesn`t have to be whitelighted. A few well placed
tablelights and things will give it a more natural look.
Your Package is on the way Dave!
Ian Gardner
A good subject Dave - But boring for me!!!! Because of my Video Camera II was struck, once again, at the UNICA Festival by how often movies from
other
countries used much more modelled lighting than we usually do.
Most of our work is lit in a bland "television" style that probably had
its
origins in studios with multi-camera live shoots and video systems that
had
problems handling strong contrasts.
Of course not every movie could or should be shot as film noir - but shadows
are part of life and sometimes having a face partially obscured by one seems
more realistic and a more interesting image.
I'm reminded of last year's movie from the Rouillard brothers, "Endings",
which contrasted film noir style shots in a hospital and in a murder scene,
with full-on bright light in beach scenes and wedding scenes.
On landscape movies the comparison with still photographers is very clear
- still guys wait for the right light, usually in the hour after dawn or
the hour before sunset - while most amateur movie makers shoot in the flat
light around midday.
Why is this?
Dave
would have to fill my living room with all the lights in Wembley Stadium!
So I would not be able to film there properly with this type of lighting.
My stuff tends to be a bit grainy so I keep it to a minimum if I have to.
If you`ve got a better video camera then lighting does play an inportant
part of filmmaking. But I like the slightly darker image of modern films
and tv. A good example is Spooks on BBC1 (New series tonight (Sunday).
The first series had there Headquarters in `standard light Setup`. Normal
lighting with a basic whiteish overall apperance. The last series had a much
more sinister darker feel. The lighting was darker with spotlighted blues
and reds etc. It is soo much more loverlyer and sinister and looks a bit
more high tech. Having lighting like this does save money in hireing lights
as there seems to be less OR there are the same but more colours and strong
darker lights (Just like lighting a closeup dark scene outside useing strong
bright dark blues) if you get my point. So it looks like night but is well
lit.
I still don`t know how they film a scene that is nignt inside and looks
pitchblack in the final film. I`ll have to have a play.
An indoor scene still doesn`t have to be whitelighted. A few well placed
tablelights and things will give it a more natural look.
Your Package is on the way Dave!
Ian Gardner
-
Dave Watterson
Re: Lighting
"Ian Gardner" <ian@gardner44.freeserve.co.uk> wrote:
like to get strong side lighting to help give a face or a building some modelling?
That would mean shooting as the sun comes up or goes down.
By the way - how did you manage the indoor shots of you sleeping on the couch
for your movie last year?
Dave
I take the point, Ian, but what about when you are filming outside? Do youA good subject Dave - But boring for me!!!! Because of my Video Camera I
would have to fill my living room with all the lights in Wembley Stadium!
like to get strong side lighting to help give a face or a building some modelling?
That would mean shooting as the sun comes up or goes down.
By the way - how did you manage the indoor shots of you sleeping on the couch
for your movie last year?
Dave
-
Cinema For Thurso Group
Re: Lighting- What's wrong with flat light?
Whilst on my daily walk along Thurso River I got to thinking about flat light.
I always thought the cameraman's issue with it was a throw-back to early
photography where films had difficulty with some lighting conditions. Today
whether in film or video, modern imaging does not suffer so.
Then I got to thinking about history and came to the conclusion that to
always film in dimensional light isn't always realistic. Did Churchill say,
"Hang on chaps, we can land on Normandy at noon because it's flat light,
you'll have to wait until 2.30pm!" Time and events in real life don't wait
for flat light to pass!
Yet again I find myself at doing what is required of the story.
I always thought the cameraman's issue with it was a throw-back to early
photography where films had difficulty with some lighting conditions. Today
whether in film or video, modern imaging does not suffer so.
Then I got to thinking about history and came to the conclusion that to
always film in dimensional light isn't always realistic. Did Churchill say,
"Hang on chaps, we can land on Normandy at noon because it's flat light,
you'll have to wait until 2.30pm!" Time and events in real life don't wait
for flat light to pass!
Yet again I find myself at doing what is required of the story.
-
Ian Gardner
Re: Lighting
"Dave Watterson" <david.filmsocs@virgin.net> wrote:
sky was overcast and grey just like most days! except now!
When I have a sudden brainstorm and a strong idea (it`s usually when i`m
trying to go to sleep at night)(don`t think when trying to go to sleep, the
clock just goes round and round lieing wide awake!) I normally try to film
it the next day so the idea is fresh and as i`m filming, more ideas and camera
angles come into my mind. Sometime I get so many it sometimes get`s confusing!
(bedside light) on pointing at me. The grain in the finished film wasn`t
added by me for effect!
Maybe if I had a strong blue spot light the exposure would have been better.
It would trick the camera into thinking that the light coming in was ok (may
be). The problem would be that you want the effect of being cosy on the couch
and falling asleep. For this you don`t want big bright lights on! You want
it softly lit. If you use a video camera with a not too good low lighting
then it becomes harder to do!
I must be honest, lighting wasn`t inportant to me as when I filmed it the"Ian Gardner" <ian@gardner44.freeserve.co.uk> wrote:
A good subject Dave - But boring for me!!!! Because of my Video Camera
I
would have to fill my living room with all the lights in Wembley Stadium!
I take the point, Ian, but what about when you are filming outside? Do you
like to get strong side lighting to help give a face or a building some
modelling?
That would mean shooting as the sun comes up or goes down.
sky was overcast and grey just like most days! except now!
When I have a sudden brainstorm and a strong idea (it`s usually when i`m
trying to go to sleep at night)(don`t think when trying to go to sleep, the
clock just goes round and round lieing wide awake!) I normally try to film
it the next day so the idea is fresh and as i`m filming, more ideas and camera
angles come into my mind. Sometime I get so many it sometimes get`s confusing!
I either had just our 60W living room light on or also had a 40W `bendy light`By the way - how did you manage the indoor shots of you sleeping on the
couch
for your movie last year?
(bedside light) on pointing at me. The grain in the finished film wasn`t
added by me for effect!
Maybe if I had a strong blue spot light the exposure would have been better.
It would trick the camera into thinking that the light coming in was ok (may
be). The problem would be that you want the effect of being cosy on the couch
and falling asleep. For this you don`t want big bright lights on! You want
it softly lit. If you use a video camera with a not too good low lighting
then it becomes harder to do!
Ian GardnerDave
-
Ian Gardner
Re: Lighting- What's wrong with flat light?
"Cinema For Thurso Group" <canuimagine@btopenworld.com> wrote:
foldup flat diffusers. When your working by yourself then filming yourself,
panning long shot, filming and holding the diffuser can become difficult!
I normally stick to running with the camera!
Churchill may have waited if he wanted to film it in good quality!
Ian Gardner
But when they do news items at midday, they would sometimes use those big,Whilst on my daily walk along Thurso River I got to thinking about flat
light.
I always thought the cameraman's issue with it was a throw-back to early
photography where films had difficulty with some lighting conditions. Today
whether in film or video, modern imaging does not suffer so.
Then I got to thinking about history and came to the conclusion that to
always film in dimensional light isn't always realistic. Did Churchill say,
"Hang on chaps, we can land on Normandy at noon because it's flat light,
you'll have to wait until 2.30pm!" Time and events in real life don't wait
for flat light to pass!
foldup flat diffusers. When your working by yourself then filming yourself,
panning long shot, filming and holding the diffuser can become difficult!
I normally stick to running with the camera!
Churchill may have waited if he wanted to film it in good quality!
Ian Gardner
-
Peter
Re: Lighting
"Dave Watterson" <forums@theiac.org.uk> wrote:
people find it harder to criticise them ...
I always think it best to shoot my films in total darkness, and then at leastI was struck, once again, at the UNICA Festival by how often movies from
other
countries used much more modelled lighting than we usually do.
Most of our work is lit in a bland "television" style that probably had
its
origins in studios with multi-camera live shoots and video systems that
had
problems handling strong contrasts.
Of course not every movie could or should be shot as film noir - but shadows
are part of life and sometimes having a face partially obscured by one seems
more realistic and a more interesting image.
I'm reminded of last year's movie from the Rouillard brothers, "Endings",
which contrasted film noir style shots in a hospital and in a murder scene,
with full-on bright light in beach scenes and wedding scenes.
On landscape movies the comparison with still photographers is very clear
- still guys wait for the right light, usually in the hour after dawn or
the hour before sunset - while most amateur movie makers shoot in the flat
light around midday.
Why is this?
Dave
people find it harder to criticise them ...
-
Dave Watterson
Re: Lighting
"Peter" <symphony@pocoanimato.co.uk> wrote:
Or you could set the controls for the heart of the sun!
I can't help it if I like images with shadows in them ...
Dave W
Good idea.I always think it best to shoot my films in total darkness, and then at
least
people find it harder to criticise them ...
Or you could set the controls for the heart of the sun!
I can't help it if I like images with shadows in them ...
Dave W
-
Peter
Re: Lighting
"Dave Watterson" <david.filmsocs@virgin.net> wrote:
...
Peter
my films always look best without pictures, and sound best without sound"Peter" <symphony@pocoanimato.co.uk> wrote:
I always think it best to shoot my films in total darkness, and then at
least
people find it harder to criticise them ...
Good idea.
Or you could set the controls for the heart of the sun!
I can't help it if I like images with shadows in them ...
Dave W
Sorry, I was not intending to be sarcastic, I like lots of shadows too! But
...
Peter
-
Dave Watterson
Disasters
"Peter" <symphony@pocoanimato.co.uk> wrote:
Actually I'm uploading to my editing system five hours of tape shot at UNICA
in Korea ... and though I am trying to ignore them the images make me begin
to wonder if I should make better movies with the lens cap on.
Which reminds me - back in the 16mm days in Edinburgh a film society was
hosting a special event and using their brand new high-powered xenon lamp
projectors. The first movie began in darkness and the image gradually grew
brighter. Then came a scuffle in the box as the assistant projectionist realised
he had left the lens cap on the machine and the lamp was slowly burning through
it!
Any other disaster tales?
Dave
Love the gags, Peter, don't apologise!Sorry, I was not intending to be sarcastic, I like lots of shadows too!
But
my films always look best without pictures, and sound best without sound
Actually I'm uploading to my editing system five hours of tape shot at UNICA
in Korea ... and though I am trying to ignore them the images make me begin
to wonder if I should make better movies with the lens cap on.
Which reminds me - back in the 16mm days in Edinburgh a film society was
hosting a special event and using their brand new high-powered xenon lamp
projectors. The first movie began in darkness and the image gradually grew
brighter. Then came a scuffle in the box as the assistant projectionist realised
he had left the lens cap on the machine and the lamp was slowly burning through
it!
Any other disaster tales?
Dave
-
Ian Gardner
Re: Disasters
"Dave Watterson" <david.filmsocs@virgin.net> wrote:
This isn`t a disaster really but stupidity!
I needed to come up with something for our clubs `Short Open Competition`.
Last summer I Filmed the Trafalgar Celebrations down the front here at Ryde.
I did this and went home. While at work, while looking out of the window
across Ryde, I noticed this field on the hill that was totally red. I thought
that this would be a good title shot at the beginning and at the end of my
film. I gathered up all my filming equipment into my backpack, jumped onto
the motorbike and was off. I arrived and set up the camera and tripod etc.
I turned on the camera and noticed this red light flashing at me. It was
the `No Tape` light. I had forgotton to bring a Mini DV tape with me! I packed
up, drove home, picked up the tape and went back.
I ALWAYS prepair my stuff the night before and put it on a chair at home.
I then double check this on the morning. I must have been distracked of something.
Ian Gardner
Hello all,Any other disaster tales?
This isn`t a disaster really but stupidity!
I needed to come up with something for our clubs `Short Open Competition`.
Last summer I Filmed the Trafalgar Celebrations down the front here at Ryde.
I did this and went home. While at work, while looking out of the window
across Ryde, I noticed this field on the hill that was totally red. I thought
that this would be a good title shot at the beginning and at the end of my
film. I gathered up all my filming equipment into my backpack, jumped onto
the motorbike and was off. I arrived and set up the camera and tripod etc.
I turned on the camera and noticed this red light flashing at me. It was
the `No Tape` light. I had forgotton to bring a Mini DV tape with me! I packed
up, drove home, picked up the tape and went back.
I ALWAYS prepair my stuff the night before and put it on a chair at home.
I then double check this on the morning. I must have been distracked of something.
Ian Gardner