Help, please.
I'm judging a club competition. There is the usual range of work and some
good items. But there is a fault which is common to most of them: poor sound.
Since I like to be positive in talks, I'd welcome advice from everyone on
quick tips for better sound.
The sort of problems I find are over-modulated recording of commentary, poor
choice of voice, clunky fades and mixes of music and speech, wind noise and
sometimes handling noise from the camcorder. And of course the odd plinky-plonk
musical wallpaper.
So quick tips, please. Pretty, please.
Dave (sounds like "save" / "rave" / "wave" )
WANTED: Ten quick tips for better sound
-
Peter
Re: WANTED: Ten quick tips for better sound
"Dave Watterson" <forums@theiac.org.uk> wrote:
I have always held the view that most amateur videos have poor sound. People
have been surprised when I have said that I spend more time working on the
sound than the pictures! One of the most noticeable problems is that every
time an edit is made the sound jumps up or down in level, (drawing attention
to the cut) and each picture edit should have a level adjustment made to
the sound. If it s possible (with the software) a crossfade may need to be
applied to the edit point - in and out. I use an industry standard sound
editing program which has all of the attributes to make professional recordings
for CD as well as integrating with video (ProTools). I have not yet used
it with video, but it is part of Avid, so it must work.
Of course, most digital consumer camcorders have poor sound, using a very
cheap mic with little bandwidth given to the track being written to the tape,
so the sound is extremely inferior, and no good for serious music, if this
is to be recorded straight onto the camera tape in sync with the pictures.
An improvement is to use a more expensive mic plugged into the camera - I
would suggest a 50-100 pound job - anything above this will have no more
improvement as the camera is alredy beyond its audio limit. Of course (Michael!!)
- professional or even semi-pro cameras will be better at recording a higher
quality sound, and a more expensive mic MIGHT pay off, but don't go over
500 pounds.
In sound recording studios the cheapest mics will be over 1000 pounds - up
the about 10K.
The other points I would make are that (1) the mic is placed as close the
the actor as possible (a lot of commercial films are poor in that the actors
voices are "muddy"), (2) that suitable music of a high quality is used in
appropriate places, and not as wallpaper, and that music is carefully faded
up and down when commerntary or voice over is used. But using music effectively
is an art in itself. It can be very good if the music is specially written,
but you need a tame composer to succeed here.
Basically I would suggest that the editor spends as much time, if not more
working on the sound element in the video, as the picture! I could go on
for hours, but had better leave off!! If you want to phone me my number is
020 8376 0210.
Peter
Dear DaveHelp, please.
I'm judging a club competition. There is the usual range of work and some
good items. But there is a fault which is common to most of them: poor sound.
Dave (sounds like "save" / "rave" / "wave" )
I have always held the view that most amateur videos have poor sound. People
have been surprised when I have said that I spend more time working on the
sound than the pictures! One of the most noticeable problems is that every
time an edit is made the sound jumps up or down in level, (drawing attention
to the cut) and each picture edit should have a level adjustment made to
the sound. If it s possible (with the software) a crossfade may need to be
applied to the edit point - in and out. I use an industry standard sound
editing program which has all of the attributes to make professional recordings
for CD as well as integrating with video (ProTools). I have not yet used
it with video, but it is part of Avid, so it must work.
Of course, most digital consumer camcorders have poor sound, using a very
cheap mic with little bandwidth given to the track being written to the tape,
so the sound is extremely inferior, and no good for serious music, if this
is to be recorded straight onto the camera tape in sync with the pictures.
An improvement is to use a more expensive mic plugged into the camera - I
would suggest a 50-100 pound job - anything above this will have no more
improvement as the camera is alredy beyond its audio limit. Of course (Michael!!)
- professional or even semi-pro cameras will be better at recording a higher
quality sound, and a more expensive mic MIGHT pay off, but don't go over
500 pounds.
In sound recording studios the cheapest mics will be over 1000 pounds - up
the about 10K.
The other points I would make are that (1) the mic is placed as close the
the actor as possible (a lot of commercial films are poor in that the actors
voices are "muddy"), (2) that suitable music of a high quality is used in
appropriate places, and not as wallpaper, and that music is carefully faded
up and down when commerntary or voice over is used. But using music effectively
is an art in itself. It can be very good if the music is specially written,
but you need a tame composer to succeed here.
Basically I would suggest that the editor spends as much time, if not more
working on the sound element in the video, as the picture! I could go on
for hours, but had better leave off!! If you want to phone me my number is
020 8376 0210.
Peter
-
Paul Chater
Re: WANTED: Ten quick tips for better sound
"Dave Watterson" <forums@theiac.org.uk> wrote:
Here's your starter for 10.
Our ears are less tolerant to mistakes than our eyesight, so sound is critical
to a good film.
when filming:
1. Get the microphone as close as possible to the subject - (but not in shot).
2. Use off camera microphones wherever possible.
3. Use headphones whilst filming to ear to the sound recorded.
4. All microphones must have a good wind gag.
when editing:
1. Sound must be balanced; ambient and music must compliment the voiceover,
not distract.
2. Remember sound and vision is partnership not rivals.
3. Balance soundtrack between each clip by blending to similar volume levels.
4. When the edit is finished, review the sound track by closing your eyes
and just listening. You will usually find some correction is needed.
finally - question: How do you stop wind noise when filming?
answer: stand further away from the microphone when farting!
Apart from the poor joke, I hope this is helpful.
Paul
Dave,Help, please.
I'm judging a club competition. There is the usual range of work and some
good items. But there is a fault which is common to most of them: poor sound.
Since I like to be positive in talks, I'd welcome advice from everyone on
quick tips for better sound.
The sort of problems I find are over-modulated recording of commentary,
poor
choice of voice, clunky fades and mixes of music and speech, wind noise
and
sometimes handling noise from the camcorder. And of course the odd plinky-plonk
musical wallpaper.
So quick tips, please. Pretty, please.
Dave (sounds like "save" / "rave" / "wave" )
Here's your starter for 10.
Our ears are less tolerant to mistakes than our eyesight, so sound is critical
to a good film.
when filming:
1. Get the microphone as close as possible to the subject - (but not in shot).
2. Use off camera microphones wherever possible.
3. Use headphones whilst filming to ear to the sound recorded.
4. All microphones must have a good wind gag.
when editing:
1. Sound must be balanced; ambient and music must compliment the voiceover,
not distract.
2. Remember sound and vision is partnership not rivals.
3. Balance soundtrack between each clip by blending to similar volume levels.
4. When the edit is finished, review the sound track by closing your eyes
and just listening. You will usually find some correction is needed.
finally - question: How do you stop wind noise when filming?
answer: stand further away from the microphone when farting!
Apart from the poor joke, I hope this is helpful.
Paul
-
Willy Van der Linden
Re: WANTED: Ten quick tips for better sound
"Dave Watterson" <forums@theiac.org.uk> wrote:
Brian Higbee who lives in Devon. The weather conditions were extremely bad.
It was windy and Brian had to sing outside, but Davy, one of the members
of my club, who is a musician himself, was a member of my "film crew". He's
an expert on sound. Last year we bought a sennheiser (price : about £450).
It is a very good one. We approached the singer as close as possible. We
used a monitor, a TV-set with flat screen. We could not see the perse and
microphone which was covered with the skin of a rabbit or any other animal.
(I've forgotten the English word again !). Davy (27), who's a new member,
suggested buying a mix-panel. It costs about £95 ! He found it on the website
: www.conrad.be They also have a site in the UK, but unfortunately the
mixer we use is not available in your country. See : www.conrad.com It
is an 8 channel battery powered line mixer. Hit this link for specs http://www2.produkt.info.conrad.com/dat ... 01-ml-Mini
Mixer Mc Crypt MCB-1002.de-en-fr.pdf. They sent the mixer to us by parcel-post.
Why a mix-panel ? Because we wanted to have total control of our mic. before
the sound was going to be recorded. We used earphones and could already hear
the slightest breaths of wind and background noises entering the microphone.
So we could choose the right angle for the mic. and get the best out of the
desired sound using the tone control knobs. Another advantage : the mixer
switched the mono signal for the mic into stereo sound. We also made some
recordings of Brian with his guitar plugged into the mixer as well, and in
the mean time we recorded his voice with a microphone.
Two years ago I already took some shots in Devon. I didn't use the manual
function (sound) in my sony 2000 camera, which was wrong. The sound was mono.
Looking at the sound tracks in my casablanca or on any recorder I noticed
that only one of the two sound tracks was moving. Some weeks ago my film
was partly in mono and partly in stereo. Having seen this Davy adjusted the
sound in his computer (programme pinnacle 10). Now the film is only in stereo.
You can also do this with your casablanca. Now I think that the sound of
my film is alright. I tested it in our filmclub. Perhaps you can still hear
some traffic in the far distance, but then you must have the ears of an elephant.
Anyway, traffic in the distance is natural.
While filming our folksinger Brian we had to stop from time to time, because
of airoplanes making too much noise. Not only the wind was terrible.
Now something different : Each time when you hear the narrator saying something
in your documentary it's good to decrease the number of decibels. Of course
you must not exaggerate. The fluctuations must be "soft" or "smooth". Music
is used to create the right atmosphere in your film.The balance music-narration-live
sound is very important.
Peter is right. Editing a film also means working on the sound by using crossfades
for instance. It may take months to get the ideal quality of sound when making
a film of about 20 minutes.
Some time ago I told you that I'm making a film about my friend and folksingerHelp, please.
I'm judging a club competition. There is the usual range of work and some
good items. But there is a fault which is common to most of them: poor sound.
So quick tips, please. Pretty, please.
Brian Higbee who lives in Devon. The weather conditions were extremely bad.
It was windy and Brian had to sing outside, but Davy, one of the members
of my club, who is a musician himself, was a member of my "film crew". He's
an expert on sound. Last year we bought a sennheiser (price : about £450).
It is a very good one. We approached the singer as close as possible. We
used a monitor, a TV-set with flat screen. We could not see the perse and
microphone which was covered with the skin of a rabbit or any other animal.
(I've forgotten the English word again !). Davy (27), who's a new member,
suggested buying a mix-panel. It costs about £95 ! He found it on the website
: www.conrad.be They also have a site in the UK, but unfortunately the
mixer we use is not available in your country. See : www.conrad.com It
is an 8 channel battery powered line mixer. Hit this link for specs http://www2.produkt.info.conrad.com/dat ... 01-ml-Mini
Mixer Mc Crypt MCB-1002.de-en-fr.pdf. They sent the mixer to us by parcel-post.
Why a mix-panel ? Because we wanted to have total control of our mic. before
the sound was going to be recorded. We used earphones and could already hear
the slightest breaths of wind and background noises entering the microphone.
So we could choose the right angle for the mic. and get the best out of the
desired sound using the tone control knobs. Another advantage : the mixer
switched the mono signal for the mic into stereo sound. We also made some
recordings of Brian with his guitar plugged into the mixer as well, and in
the mean time we recorded his voice with a microphone.
Two years ago I already took some shots in Devon. I didn't use the manual
function (sound) in my sony 2000 camera, which was wrong. The sound was mono.
Looking at the sound tracks in my casablanca or on any recorder I noticed
that only one of the two sound tracks was moving. Some weeks ago my film
was partly in mono and partly in stereo. Having seen this Davy adjusted the
sound in his computer (programme pinnacle 10). Now the film is only in stereo.
You can also do this with your casablanca. Now I think that the sound of
my film is alright. I tested it in our filmclub. Perhaps you can still hear
some traffic in the far distance, but then you must have the ears of an elephant.
Anyway, traffic in the distance is natural.
While filming our folksinger Brian we had to stop from time to time, because
of airoplanes making too much noise. Not only the wind was terrible.
Now something different : Each time when you hear the narrator saying something
in your documentary it's good to decrease the number of decibels. Of course
you must not exaggerate. The fluctuations must be "soft" or "smooth". Music
is used to create the right atmosphere in your film.The balance music-narration-live
sound is very important.
Peter is right. Editing a film also means working on the sound by using crossfades
for instance. It may take months to get the ideal quality of sound when making
a film of about 20 minutes.
-
Brian Hazelden
Re: WANTED: Ten quick tips for better sound
Hi All,
I'm afraid I have only one tip, but it has served me well.
"Record the sound that you want."
But ................. more importantly!
"Don't record the sound that you don't want."
Brian
"Dave Watterson" <forums@theiac.org.uk> wrote:
I'm afraid I have only one tip, but it has served me well.
"Record the sound that you want."
But ................. more importantly!
"Don't record the sound that you don't want."
Brian
"Dave Watterson" <forums@theiac.org.uk> wrote:
Help, please.
I'm judging a club competition. There is the usual range of work and some
good items. But there is a fault which is common to most of them: poor sound.
Since I like to be positive in talks, I'd welcome advice from everyone on
quick tips for better sound.
The sort of problems I find are over-modulated recording of commentary,
poor
choice of voice, clunky fades and mixes of music and speech, wind noise
and
sometimes handling noise from the camcorder. And of course the odd plinky-plonk
musical wallpaper.
So quick tips, please. Pretty, please.
Dave (sounds like "save" / "rave" / "wave" )
-
Ned C
Re: WANTED: Ten quick tips for better sound
At the risk of some repetition
1. Monitor the location sound all the time, use headphones, listen for levels,
quality, interference and extraneous sounds.
2. Whenever possible have a dedicated sound person. It is not easy to shoot
the picture and manage & monitor the sound at the same time.
3. Use a separate mic of decent quality. Use a boom, definitely needs a sound
person.
4. Treat the sound shoot as seriously as the picture shoot.
5. For narrations get someone who sounds good and can vary delivery and emote,
expect to have several takes with different emphasis/pacing.
6. Spend a lot of time selecting music, NLEs make it possible to check the
effect, get some disinterested comments.
7. Keep the ambient, even at an almost subliminal level it rounds out the
sound mix.
8. Expect to spend at least as much time on the sound edit/mix as on the
picture edit. Many NLEs have sound programs that will integrate with the
general edit program for sound sweetening.
9. Listen to the sound track of Master & Commander.
10 Remember the old editor's adage - The picture delivers the information
but the sound track delivers the emotion.
Ned C
"Dave Watterson" <forums@theiac.org.uk> wrote:
1. Monitor the location sound all the time, use headphones, listen for levels,
quality, interference and extraneous sounds.
2. Whenever possible have a dedicated sound person. It is not easy to shoot
the picture and manage & monitor the sound at the same time.
3. Use a separate mic of decent quality. Use a boom, definitely needs a sound
person.
4. Treat the sound shoot as seriously as the picture shoot.
5. For narrations get someone who sounds good and can vary delivery and emote,
expect to have several takes with different emphasis/pacing.
6. Spend a lot of time selecting music, NLEs make it possible to check the
effect, get some disinterested comments.
7. Keep the ambient, even at an almost subliminal level it rounds out the
sound mix.
8. Expect to spend at least as much time on the sound edit/mix as on the
picture edit. Many NLEs have sound programs that will integrate with the
general edit program for sound sweetening.
9. Listen to the sound track of Master & Commander.
10 Remember the old editor's adage - The picture delivers the information
but the sound track delivers the emotion.
Ned C
"Dave Watterson" <forums@theiac.org.uk> wrote:
Help, please.
I'm judging a club competition. There is the usual range of work and some
good items. But there is a fault which is common to most of them: poor sound.
Since I like to be positive in talks, I'd welcome advice from everyone on
quick tips for better sound.
The sort of problems I find are over-modulated recording of commentary,
poor
choice of voice, clunky fades and mixes of music and speech, wind noise
and
sometimes handling noise from the camcorder. And of course the odd plinky-plonk
musical wallpaper.
So quick tips, please. Pretty, please.
Dave (sounds like "save" / "rave" / "wave" )
-
Dave Watterson
Re: WANTED: Ten quick tips for better sound
Many thanks to all those who sent such useful hints and tips. I had not heard
the joke before, Paul, and it had me giggling at the keyboard. I drew on
all the ideas when speaking to the club and will now draft something to offer
to their magazine editor.
You are a great crowd of helpful, interesting people. I do enjoy popping
on here most nights to catch up with what's being said.
Dave
the joke before, Paul, and it had me giggling at the keyboard. I drew on
all the ideas when speaking to the club and will now draft something to offer
to their magazine editor.
You are a great crowd of helpful, interesting people. I do enjoy popping
on here most nights to catch up with what's being said.
Dave