Royalties & Rights to show....

[Cinema For Thurso Group]

Well I'm wondering about these two things. Firstly I am of the general opinion
(perhaps erronously) that people to appear on film who have not been asked
to appear for any reason specific or otherwise, have no right to royalties.
Is this correct?
Secondly in the home movie footage that I'm planning to show publically there
is material of a local drama group rehersing (but not publically performing)
a pantomime. There is no soundtrack so none of the writer's copyrights apply
but do the drama group hold the right to prevent public exhibtion (and believe
me they are of that mindset)of the film and are they entitled to royalties.
Again they weren't asked to perform for film, they were just something filmed
on the spur of the moment.
None of the footage contains anything that would offend or humiliate any
group or individual and is all home-movie material never shot with any thought
to public screening until now. I shot and own all the film. Do I have complete
control on this.

[Ned C]

"Cinema For Thurso Group" <forums@theiac.org.uk> wrote:

Well I'm wondering about these two things. Firstly I am of the general opinion
(perhaps erronously) that people to appear on film who have not been asked
to appear for any reason specific or otherwise, have no right to royalties.
Is this correct?
Secondly in the home movie footage that I'm planning to show publically
there
is material of a local drama group rehersing (but not publically performing)
a pantomime. There is no soundtrack so none of the writer's copyrights apply
but do the drama group hold the right to prevent public exhibtion (and believe
me they are of that mindset)of the film and are they entitled to royalties.
Again they weren't asked to perform for film, they were just something filmed
on the spur of the moment.
None of the footage contains anything that would offend or humiliate any
group or individual and is all home-movie material never shot with any thought
to public screening until now. I shot and own all the film. Do I have complete
control on this.

As a general guide anything filmed from a location that is in the public
domain, road, free park etc does not require authorisation and you can film
people without requiring their permission or getting a release but this will
not be true if you are shooting children as there are possible restrictions.
You are open to action if you use the footage that then shows the people
in a derogatory fashion or juxtaposition, eg a commentary that says "AIDS
is a serious problem in this area". Anything filmed on private land or premises
requires the permission of the owner of the location by a location release
and releases are required from any people who appear on camera. So in your
example you will need the permission of the owners of the theatre and releases
from all the people in the production. You don't have to pay people for the
releases but it only needs one to refuse to prevent you from using the material.
I wouldn't be too sure about the "silent" rehearsal either if it is recognisable.
Your potential problem will be compounded if you charge to attend the public
performance. The photographic material is yours and you own the rights to
it but must have clearance from the people who appear on it to use it!

Ned C

[Cinema For Thurso Group]

not be true if you are shooting children as there are possible restrictions.
As such I haven't made a point of filming children but as some of the material

is of Galas in the town centre it obviously contains scenes with children
most of whom will now have grown up or are at least near leaving school age.
I guess that if under 16 the rule would still apply but for those who are
over 16 now?
Another point is that often people are too distant or too poorly light to
be identified without difficulty if atol possible.
As stated nothing in the films show anyone in a bad light and the commentary
will be not name names or make any comment on any individual, group or area.
I am planning to show the films to raise money for the Tsunami relief efforts
and in that I feel there would be few if any decentors to allowing the film
to be screened publically and for an admission fee- although our local drama
club could well be sticky. It is the case that I do not remember all the
names for people who appear. Would a general release document cover if I
ask the drama group to contact those involved directly.

[Nigel]

You might want to ask a solicitor about the "Production Release Form". I read
in a book and have also been told in the past that a Release is not legally
worth anything unless it states that the person signing it has received "Consideration"
i.e. has been paid, this could be just £1.00, but it has to show this to
be legal.

Professional photographers get around this by giving the model "Photographs"
for their portfolio, this is stated as 'Consideration" payment on the release
form. It shows they have received payment in some kind or another, either
cash or product.

Check with solicitor.

Finally, be wary of what it says in books, they can be out of date, remember,
laws change. In the case of American books, well they have different laws
to us too.

------------

www.dvuser.co.uk

[Cinema For Thurso Group]

Thanks for this Nigel. The matter is being looked at very carefully and additionally
it is important to consider possible differences between Scotish and English
law which are different in many ways.

"Nigel" <nigel.mvp@virgin.net> wrote:

You might want to ask a solicitor about the "Production Release Form". I
read
in a book and have also been told in the past that a Release is not legally
worth anything unless it states that the person signing it has received
"Consideration"
i.e. has been paid, this could be just £1.00, but it has to show this to
be legal.

Professional photographers get around this by giving the model "Photographs"
for their portfolio, this is stated as 'Consideration" payment on the release
form. It shows they have received payment in some kind or another, either
cash or product.

Check with solicitor.

Finally, be wary of what it says in books, they can be out of date, remember,
laws change. In the case of American books, well they have different laws
to us too.

------------

www.dvuser.co.uk

[Nigel]

Sorry, didn't realize you were in Scotland. Of course you have a point there
too, Scottish laws can differ slightly.

It's always good to get a bit of general knowledge from boards such as these,
then get the final stamp via a solicitor.

Good look.

[jane]

What about filming at an event where the person filming had to pay to get
in and filmed the performers doing a show without their permission or the
permission of the owner of the location? Isn't that the equivalent of bootlegging?

And what are the legal standing if the person filming went on to make a movie
with this footage and then charged people to see it?

As a general guide anything filmed from a location that is in the public
domain, road, free park etc does not require authorisation and you can film
people without requiring their permission or getting a release but this
will
not be true if you are shooting children as there are possible restrictions.
You are open to action if you use the footage that then shows the people
in a derogatory fashion or juxtaposition, eg a commentary that says "AIDS
is a serious problem in this area". Anything filmed on private land or premises
requires the permission of the owner of the location by a location release
and releases are required from any people who appear on camera. So in your
example you will need the permission of the owners of the theatre and releases
from all the people in the production. You don't have to pay people for
the
releases but it only needs one to refuse to prevent you from using the material.
I wouldn't be too sure about the "silent" rehearsal either if it is recognisable.
Your potential problem will be compounded if you charge to attend the public
performance. The photographic material is yours and you own the rights to
it but must have clearance from the people who appear on it to use it!

Ned C

[Ned C]

If you pay to get in this is not a public place. You are correct, this is
an example of bootlegging and if the result is sold then this is an infringement
of the performers rights. I was at a concert recently and the security people
were on the lookout for camcorders and audio recorders.

Ned C



"jane" <stinkysrevenge@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:

What about filming at an event where the person filming had to pay to get
in and filmed the performers doing a show without their permission or the
permission of the owner of the location? Isn't that the equivalent of bootlegging?

And what are the legal standing if the person filming went on to make a
movie
with this footage and then charged people to see it?





As a general guide anything filmed from a location that is in the public
domain, road, free park etc does not require authorisation and you can
film
people without requiring their permission or getting a release but this

[Cinema For Thurso Group]

If you pay to get in this is not a public place. You are correct, this is
an example of bootlegging and if the result is sold then this is an infringement
of the performers rights. I was at a concert recently and the security people
were on the lookout for camcorders and audio recorders.

Ned C

Fortunately I never paid to film anything in my life and wherever required
I always asked and everyone was aware that my camera would be filming.
There has only been one occassion where I filmed first then got permission
afterwards. I have two gigs of film, one the afore mentioed, and I did consider
showing these in my programme but I couldn't find an email contact(quite
absurd thing) for Dodgy (you know them) and La Bottine Souriante haven't
replied yet. As is I found I have plenty to show without these extra 20 minutes
worth so they won't be in the film. All relavent permissions are being saught
at this time.

The IAC is pretty darn useless I've found when trying to get info. I sent
an email On Sunday and I haven't had a reply. So maybe you can help.
The copyright clearance scheme will allow me to show the film I'm putting
together for 2 full screenings for charitable cause withing one year BUT
I'm wanting to show the film 3 times to pull in a matinee.
What do I need to know here, what permissions are required, can I get permission
as the one extra show will be outwith the terms of the License scheme. Your
thoughts please.