Where next for the IAC?

[Dave Watterson]

For some years people have expressed concern about:

• the number of people in clubs reducing

• the number of clubs reducing

• the number of IAC regions reducing

• the number of members in IAC reducing

How much further can we go?
There are already questions about whether a "live" BIAFF will be viable after 2024.
North-West, Eastern, North Thames regions have gone or sit dormant. CEMRIAC may be next to go.

What is our future to be?

[Geof Caudwell]

Yes, Dave, the IAC is shrinking, but BIAFF is still maintaining a high level of entries. That could mean that the proportion of IAC members who are entering BIAFF is declining. Perhaps we need to make BIAFF entrants aware that the competition can only survive if more of them become IAC members.

[TimStannard]

That could mean that the proportion of IAC members who are entering BIAFF is declining.

Yes, it might make an interesting statistic. I wonder if anyone actually keeps these figures?

Perhaps we need to make BIAFF entrants aware that the competition can only survive if more of them become IAC members.

Hmmm. Nice idea, but I can't think of a single intance in anything where the "use it or lose it" approach has made any difference (happy to be corrected).

Clubs are difficult as they often give the impression it's just a bunch of old men moaning about how much better it was in the old days and reluctant to try anything new. This is frequently an accurate impression, but, I believe, less frequently now because these have been the first clubs to go under. At the same time there are a few clubs who are doing rather well (Sutton Coldfield being the poster boy for this). Whilst nowhere near as active, we at Surrey Border have picked up several new members over the past two years and lost very few.

Whilst clubs are difficult, I don't see the IAC as being quite so difficult to market. BIAFF itself has a larger proportion of younger people entering (I don't mean youth entries, more under 50s) and winning, which makes it less off-putting to younger film makers. I have absolutely no doubt that putting it on Film Freeway made a big difference here. Also, of course, it attracts many people from overseas who presumably don't have the same impression of amateur film in the UK as the locals.

Whilst BIAFF may be surviving, we're probably not going to convert many entrants into members. What's in it for them, other than cheap/free early entry into BIAFF. Indeed, what's in it for any of us? I suspect, like many members, I continue my membership because of the licencing arrangements for commercial music. Yes, FVM has some great contributors, but I doubt it's worth the entry fee. The information contained within is available elsewhere and, significantly, the Internet is where most people go to get similar information.

True, we can trust Tom Hardwick, but spend any significant time looking at reviews on the internet and you'll soon find out which reviewers you trust. Similarly, search hard enough and you'll find people posting videos full of anecdotes and opinions every bit as entertaining as Ken WIlson or Brian Dunkley. Don't get me wrong, I enjoy these contributions because they are well written and edited. I continue to subscribe to PC Pro magazine, for the same reason, but it's a hard sell to anyone whose chief source for information and entertainment since school has been the internet.

Not so very long ago, the only opportunity the amateur (yes, I will continue to use that term) film maker had of getting their film seen by anyone beyond family was a film Club and the occasional competition such as BIAFF or regional comps (which they probably wouldn't have known about unless they'd joined a club).

Now, with a click of a button, they have a potential audience of 2 billion. So the primary reason for joining a club no longer exists. The secondary reason - learning from others - also no longer exists. I can find out about codecs or how to frame shots properly or how to get a "cinematic" look much more easily than if I have to wait for the next meeting and ask our members. Ditto the tertiary reason - networking, as people are able to reach a far wider range of people than would ever be possible at a club meet.

So what do we do?

Here are a few suggestions (I claim none of these as my own)

• 1. Embrace the YouTube/Vimeo "vlog" and tutorial as a valid forms of movie. There are people who amass a significant following - and this is no longer the domain of the likes of Zoella, made by young people with a young folowing. See here: https://www.youtube.com/@LifeistooshortCK/featured this is a couple who post daily edited videos of their travels in their camper vand and they must be doing something right as they've been doing this successfully for 3 years now. Incidentally, I couldn't remember the name (it's been a while since I watched) and a search for "camper van life" led me to may similar vlogs. Don't pooh-pooh these vlogs. They are often better made than most of what we see at local clubs/BIAFF.
  
  Quite apart from welcoming these sorts of films, why not get makers in as guest speakers? I for one would be very interested in how (in this case) they go about creating a script and editing the day's shots all on a laptop in the back of their campervan for release that night or very soon afterwards.

• 2. See if we can't get some of the YouTube tutorial makers to put on a special live event for IAC members only. Or members and guests - who cares? We need to get the name out there. A couple of British ones who spring to mind for Davinci Resolve are Mr Alex Tech (lively, young - well compared to most of us - recently gave up the day job to concentrate on his YouTube channel as he was making enough for it to justify it) and Darren Mostyn - coming from the other direction, a professional colourist who, moved into making tutorials. There are numerous others.
  
  We might well have to offer pay for this - after all if they're creating content for us, they're not making material they can make money from on YouTube, but at least they'd take us seriously and its not as if we don't have enough money in the bank to at least try it.

• 3. There are also lots of YouTube channels dedicated to making films in a more general sense. Mostly US but there may well be some UK ones. Can we not get one or two of them on board? Or get them to do a special live event?

Why not consider approaching a successful YouTuber for patronage?

I appreciate that the above really only potentially helps raise awareness of the IAC rather than create reasons for joining. But if The IAC acts as a "curator" for the mass of stuff online, this might eventually be a reason someone would join.

[edited for numerous typos]

[Dave Watterson]

Geoff:

Yes, Dave, the IAC is shrinking, but BIAFF is still maintaining a high level of entries.

I was concerned about the number of people attending BIAFF in person.

[Jill Lampert]

Tim, your response is interesting. Well done for having so many suggestions.

I think it is probably still attractive to filmmaking enthusiasts to meet up with people who share their enthusiasm.

And I think it is still attractive to show films to a live audience as opposed to a YouTube audience. I have some films on YouTube that have had thousands of views. But though I feel chuffed about that, it's not nearly so much fun as hearing a live audience clap or laugh or make some nice comments about a film I've made.

And I think that it is easier to learn by doing than just to look things up on the internet.

But I guess all these things: Meeting other filmmakers, live audiences and active filmmaking in groups are provided more by clubs than by the IAC itself.

I agree that we should embrace vlogging. We have a vlogger in our club. https://youtu.be/cWI_ZmSUD4E?si=ZvE_llHwF0rLFQh3 He's going to do a talk for us about his vlogging. Who knows? Maybe he'll inspire others to have a go? Or help to attract more members?

We often have 'challenges' at our club, and maybe we should try having a 'vlogging' challenge? And perhaps a 'tutorial video' challenge? Our next challenge this season is to do a 3 minute video review of a film or TV show - so we do try and develop our skills beyond the sort of stuff one might see at a festival.

What does the IAC itself have to offer? BIAFF - wonderful opportunity to get films shown to a real live audience and to meet other filmmakers - so long as it goes on being live!

FVM - Martin is doing a great job revitalising this. You're probably right that people aren't reading magazines so much any more. So maybe it can't be a huge draw for the IAC? But the more it can reflect what people who potentially might join the IAC are interested in, the more hope there is that it can help the IAC keep going. It's a shame that it is only available in paper form.

Publicity for the IAC - I really like your suggestions about getting publicity for the IAC by putting on events with relatively well known presenters. I'd love to get some live tuition in DaVinci Resolve. The IAC has lots of money. What about a proper course - perhaps a weekend course with real live tuition in Davinci Resolve provided by someone very knowledgeable? Free to IAC members. Publicised all over the country in every possible way?

Maybe Forum contributors could try and set out some suggestions that could be discussed at the AGM on 12th November?

[ned c]

1. The magazine on-line with links to the films described/equipment reviewed. Have entrants to BIAFF link to their films with the judges reviews to stimulate discussion. Yes; it's nice to have a paper magazine but the costs could be re-allocated ; see 3.
2. Yes; training; the original courses at Wansfell were a great resource; with preference to IAC members and a surcharge for non-members. Yes; editing software a priority.
3. Pay a specialist to promote both the IAC and BIAFF; it is too much to expect volunteer management to give the sustained energy to promoting and building the organization and the Festival.
4. Have monthly Zoom meetings/presentations; again a heavy demand on volunteer management.
5. For heaven' sake introduce a student section into BIAFF to attract the film school students; they are the future; establish a connection with the film schools, Have academics judge the student entries.
6. Why should a young person with a mortgage and a family join the iAC, what's in it for them?
ned c

[Jill Lampert]

Great suggestions, Ned. Yes! I particularly like the suggestion of paying someone to promote BIAFF and the IAC. I feel that the wonderful, committed, active members of the Council are desperately overworked, and it really is worth delegating this and trying to promote it as much as possible in the hopes of creating awareness and increase the membership.

With regards to BIAFF it seems to me more important to promote the actual festival than entering it? As Geof says, with FilmFreeway, it's probably ok re entries. It's getting people to come to the Crescent that would be really good.

Any more suggestions everyone?

[Martin Evans]

For my four-penn'orth: Our world has changed. Dramatically. It is not just societies such as ours that are struggling. And, quite frankly, I don't see any great reversal of this trend any time soon.

I feel we should concentrate on making BIAFF a major festival. Bums on seats, most importantly. Also though, I like the idea of using some of that IAC cash to pay for workshops, training courses, guest speakers and other premium content.

As for FVM, I try to make it as interesting as possible but I am dependent upon contributions. I repeatedly, and continuously, appeal for articles, particularly tutorial types – on anything at all – but what I find I keep getting sent are ever more sepia-tinted words of reminiscence.

That all said anyway, maybe that’s what our ageing readership wants. And as suggested, I don’t think the magazine offers much that can’t be found online already – except the pleasure in sitting down to read contributions from one’s own society.

[ned c]

Martin is right; the BIAFF is the IAC's most significant contribution to film makers with the concentration on n-c (Sorry; Tim; amateur) film makers, along with two other offerings; the magazine and the music licence. Does the IAC have a role in the wider world of film making? It was founded in the 30s for "gentlemen" film makers; flourished through to the 60s and was then marginalized by the digital revolution. Cast your mind back; the hobby supported two professional monthly magazines; now vanished without trace. Clearly the "market" underwent a drastic change; amateur film making was no longer the reserve of a wealthy few. The question for the IAC is does this new world need a central National organization and if so what is it expected to provide. Note that the National organizations in Canada, Australia, the USA have all ceased to exist.

Why am I so keen on a student section for the BIAFF? The film schools and Communication departments produce many more graduates than can find work in the professions; I see this locally where I know three film school graduates who are working in unrelated areas but make films for the love of it and are the backbone of the local film scene. They are young and energetic and you can see some of the results of their work at FMASU.

Short training courses are a great place to start; I attended weekend courses at Wansfell on 16mm editing; camera use and two of the early courses on NLE; tremendous! I also attended a one week course on 16mm film making at Salford University which was film school in a very concentrated adventure. Here again connections with the film schools could be productive.
ned c


.

[TimStannard]

I think it is probably still attractive to filmmaking enthusiasts to meet up with people who share their enthusiasm.

But the fact that the numbers of people turning up to clubs, or to inter club events, or to festivals, would seem to suggest othewise.

And I think it is still attractive to show films to a live audience as opposed to a YouTube audience. I have some films on YouTube that have had thousands of views. But though I feel chuffed about that, it's not nearly so much fun as hearing a live audience clap or laugh or make some nice comments about a film I've made.

Jill, I wholeheartedly agree with you. Most people who have experienced this would probably agree. But my point is not about people who have experienced it. It's about getting new recruits and it is very difficult to sell the idea of showing your film to 20 or so people (many of whom appear to be old enough to be your grandparents, and probably are not your target audience), when they already have a potential audience of billions.
It probably only needs a club to attract a very small number of new (younger) recruits and then it becomes more attractive for others.

And I think that it is easier to learn by doing than just to look things up on the internet.

Do you not do the things you learn on the internet? I know I do. But it's fair comments and it rather depends on what you are tryng to learn. Certainly camera handling skills benefit in person training. Morre technical aspects like camera settings, however can be learned by watching YT tutorials, trying the settings and assessing the results. At your own pace, at a time that suits you. Not within a two hour window at a club. And, if such a thing worries you, you're not making a fool of yourself in front of others.

But I guess all these things: Meeting other filmmakers, live audiences and active filmmaking in groups are provided more by clubs than by the IAC itself.

Indeed. But a large part of what the IAC does is support clubs (or should be). And what is the IAC if not a big club?

I agree that we should embrace vlogging.

I was thinking in particular of the different styles of vlogging. After all, what is a vlog if not a form of (often punchy and/or opinionated) documentary?

Regarding higher profile (especially among younger potential recruits) guest speakers/trainers and Martin's ongoing efforts to source attractive content for FVM, these two ideas could be combined: Why not see if we can get a successful YouTuber or major known film critic (Kermode/Ross) to write an article for FVM? Or "just" a successful film maker? Let's approve some money for that purpose.

[Willy]

It's been a while since I looked at the discussion forum due to lack of time. These days I am concentrating on my English conversation classes. I have 10 students now. Their age: from 60 to 83. They don't make films, but from time to time I show one of my movies with English subtitles on the TV-screen in my classroom. I am a volunteer. We have a lot of fun. I am trying to acquire a little more fluency in speaking myself.

I was intrigued by the discussion on this thread. Tim said: "Embrace the You Tube as a valid form of movie." In Belgium many people seem to be inspired by Tik Tok. It's a video-sharing app that allows users to create and share shortform videos on any topic. There is a vast market of people looking for micro entertainment for a few minutes during the day. Perhaps that's what Tim means.

Ned said: "For heaven' sake introduce a student section into BIAFF to attract filmschool students. They are the future." I have heard Ned's primal scream several times. He is right. However, I do think that thanks to Dave film school students were attracted many times to participate in BIAFF. If I am not mistaken, mainly from Germany, but also from Britain. But Ned most likely means a seperate competition within BIAFF.

In Belgium "Widescreen" is the name of our national umbrella organization. A bit similar to the IAC. Our own IAC was pushed aside nationally by "Widescreen" under pressure of our Ministry of Culture. The IAC is a charity. Tell me if I am wrong. The leadership of "Widescreen" consists of young people who are paid by the Government. They can also wave banknotes to attract new creative filmmakers. Example: every year an amount of £2,500 is offered to anyone who can submit a special film project. I took my chance two years ago. I think that my dossier was impressive, but I hit the ball wrong. I also had to give up my old age. Do not get me wrong. "Widescreen" aims at pure amateur filmmakers, just like Tim's. "Widescreen" also organizes a shortfilm festival which attracts young people. The new style is clearly noticeable. Yet, "Widescreen" does not let the elderly down. An ordinary annual film festival is organized by them. Mostly the award winning films are made by established filmmakers.

[Jill Lampert]

Martin Evans wrote:
I feel we should concentrate on making BIAFF a major festival. Bums on seats, most importantly. Also though, I like the idea of using some of that IAC cash to pay for workshops, training courses, guest speakers and other premium content.

Long long ago the way BIAFF was run included a hotel where we could all stay (organised by the IAC) and 'trips'. My guess is that organising hotel accommodation has been dropped because it's just too much work for the already overworked organisers. I'm not sure that 'trips' would attract more 'bums on seats' now?

But I wonder whether having some sort of 'educational' speaker(s) (big name?) say on the Friday would help attract people?

And/or would having stalls with companies displaying their wares be attractive? e.g. Sony...DJI...?

[Geof Caudwell]

Talking about making BIAFF more attractive, I wonder if Birmingham is the right location. I've just been looking at what it might cost me to attend this year. The cheapest hotel in the area, Premier Inn, would charge me about £300 for two nights, and doesn't include any food. Car parking for 48 hours is £26 there, or £40 if I have to use another carpark. Fortunately my car is excluded from the pollution charge. Also driving through Birmingham is not something I relish, even with a SatNav.
I would much prefer somewhere like Stratford-on-Avon as a venue. Perhaps other people would too ?

[Dave Watterson]

Check your hotel prices, Geoff. That seems very expensive for the Premier Inn. Try booking agencies like booking.com or trivago.co.uk ...

I hate driving in the city so come by train and could complete the journey by tram, but usually chicken out and grab a cab because of the luggage.

Check with Howard Smith about hotels - he has a few horror stories about cheap but noisy ones.

Hope to see you in the Crescent Theatre,

[Howard-Smith]

Geof, I’ve booked Travelodge in Broad Street for a total of £117 for the Friday and Saturday nights. It’s the cheapest I could find. But the Premier Inn (Broad Street) wouldn’t have been much more expensive - your quote is wildly inaccurate.
Dave, I’ve only had one bad experience and that was Saturday night last year at a different Premier Inn near Birmingham Cathedral. The traffic and night club noise kept me awake half the night. No problem on the Sunday night at the Broad Street branch of Premier Inn which only cost around £40 for the night and it was a really quiet room.