8MM CINE FILM COPYING TO VIDEO
-
- Posts: 213
- Joined: Sat Jul 03, 2010 9:20 pm
8MM CINE FILM COPYING TO VIDEO
Any experts????
In copying 8mm cine film to video via a camcorder....I know and it is obvious that dealing with the old Standard 8mm running as it does at 16 2/3rd. frames per second it copies without any flickering. However, it is noted that Super 8mm cine film which runs at 18 frames
per second flickers. Now my understanding is that the18fps needs to be "slowed" to
16 2/3rds fps. It is not possible to slow down my Eumig projector in this way. (If one introduces a rheostat to do this then:-
1) the light would dim. 2) I am advised that it could lead to the burn out of the motor!
Is it possible to achieve the fps speed reduction by altering the Video camera and if so to what speed to compensate? Or - any other solutions?
Thanks for any advice /suggestions/solutions.......Lee.
Re: 8MM CINE FILM COPYING TO VIDEO
First, Lee, there is no way you can "change the Camera speed" in order to accommodate the true film speed of 18 fps..
However.....
1. you CAN alter the speed of your Eumig from a set 18 fps to 16.6666 fps by using a thyristor speed controller in the motor circuit. If you then capture the resulting Video to computer, you can use the "speed change" function of most editing softwares to restore it to the correct speed., or
2. you CAN use "stop motion software" to capture the individual frames of film on a "one frame of Film to one frame of Video" basis (usually at much lower speeds), and correct in the editing software. This is known as "Frame by Frame, and would need a modified projector; mine is a cheapo that I would not have considered using as a "show" projector.
Both these methods are widely used.
However.....
1. you CAN alter the speed of your Eumig from a set 18 fps to 16.6666 fps by using a thyristor speed controller in the motor circuit. If you then capture the resulting Video to computer, you can use the "speed change" function of most editing softwares to restore it to the correct speed., or
2. you CAN use "stop motion software" to capture the individual frames of film on a "one frame of Film to one frame of Video" basis (usually at much lower speeds), and correct in the editing software. This is known as "Frame by Frame, and would need a modified projector; mine is a cheapo that I would not have considered using as a "show" projector.
Both these methods are widely used.
-
- Posts: 810
- Joined: Mon Jan 29, 2007 4:24 pm
Re: 8MM CINE FILM COPYING TO VIDEO
You can of course let Tom Hardwick do it for you and save a great deal of worry and hassle!
-
- Posts: 914
- Joined: Mon Jan 29, 2007 9:59 am
Re: 8MM CINE FILM COPYING TO VIDEO
You really need to get a projector that allows you to vary the speed of projection and / or change its three-bladed shutter to a two-bladed one Lee.
Of course Granfer's 'frame-by-frame' technique sounds good, but the timeline is still going to have to interpolate frames when you vary its speed such that you change 16 or 18 fps to 25 fps, whichever way you look at it.
All my films are transferred at 16.67 fps. Of course the 24 fps sound films sound awful at this speed, but the timeline correction to 25 fps restores everything to normal. At the same time of course you can equalise the stereo channels and do audio sweetening should you want to.
Your (PAL) video camera always shoots at 25 fps, unless it has under or over-cranking facilities on board. And read Philip Bridges very interesting article on the failings of CMOS sensors in this month's FVM. Stick to CCD cameras for this operation.
tom.
Of course Granfer's 'frame-by-frame' technique sounds good, but the timeline is still going to have to interpolate frames when you vary its speed such that you change 16 or 18 fps to 25 fps, whichever way you look at it.
All my films are transferred at 16.67 fps. Of course the 24 fps sound films sound awful at this speed, but the timeline correction to 25 fps restores everything to normal. At the same time of course you can equalise the stereo channels and do audio sweetening should you want to.
Your (PAL) video camera always shoots at 25 fps, unless it has under or over-cranking facilities on board. And read Philip Bridges very interesting article on the failings of CMOS sensors in this month's FVM. Stick to CCD cameras for this operation.
tom.
Last edited by tom hardwick on Mon Mar 07, 2011 9:07 am, edited 1 time in total.
Re: 8MM CINE FILM COPYING TO VIDEO
I have saved a Eumig S709 for the purpose of transferring to Video. It is so simple to alter the speed and get a flicker free result. The only trouble of course is the infamous Eumig hum. I can reduce it but not completely eliminate it.
Re: 8MM CINE FILM COPYING TO VIDEO
Not my idea, Tom! I just use it as do countless others, both with their home built machines or their Commercial ones. The credit for the VERY successful and EXTREMELY effective method must go to Roger Evans, a true PIONEER in this field, and to his Associate, John Dodson, who writes the brilliant Software he uses...Of course Granfer's 'frame-by-frame' technique sounds good, but the timeline is still going to have to interpolate frames when you vary its speed such that you change 16 or 18 fps to 25 fps, whichever way you look at it.
http://www.moviestuff.tv/
A full perusal of this site will no doubt fire many of you with the same enthusiasm that it fired me with.
And remember that countless "flicker free" U-Tube offerings have been transferred using this method, or a variant thereof.
-
- Posts: 914
- Joined: Mon Jan 29, 2007 9:59 am
Re: 8MM CINE FILM COPYING TO VIDEO
I didn't say it was your idea (invention) just your transfer technique. It's obviously better to re-photograph individual frames directly and therefore eliminate the distortions introduced by the projection lens and the off-axis recording.
-
- Posts: 213
- Joined: Sat Jul 03, 2010 9:20 pm
Re: 8MM CINE FILM COPYING TO VIDEO
Hi Tom and all:
Bit late with my thanks for all the good advice - for some reason I couldn't access the site or the Forums...I understand that the site was down in some way. Anyway, my thanks to everyone.
**** Re Michael Slowe's comment per letting Tom do my transfers. I do not know your postal address Tom or 'phone number or e-mail address and quite some time ago when I made the effort to find out - it was not forthcoming !!!! DPA I seem to remember being told! --- True! At that time I left the whole matter in abeyance which I should not have done.
-
- Posts: 914
- Joined: Mon Jan 29, 2007 9:59 am
Re: 8MM CINE FILM COPYING TO VIDEO
Hi Lee, the IAC head Office (Pam) forwards many requests for help to me, so I can always be contacted that way. Alternatively try tom r hardwick at gmail dot com
-
- Posts: 810
- Joined: Mon Jan 29, 2007 4:24 pm
Re: 8MM CINE FILM COPYING TO VIDEO
That's rash of you Tom, you may now be lucky enough to receive mails from 'Nadia', 'Olga' and Viagra filling up your mail box!
-
- Posts: 213
- Joined: Sat Jul 03, 2010 9:20 pm
Re: 8MM CINE FILM COPYING TO VIDEO
Hi Tom,
Thanks for your info. Kind of you. I'll get sorting out my ancient footage, (or should it
be meterage now)?.
I just hope that Michael is incorrect and that you do not now receive "massarges"
from "Olga from the Volga", or "Nadia from Vi-aigra" - or worse - from 10 Downing St.
Lee.......
-
- Posts: 914
- Joined: Mon Jan 29, 2007 9:59 am
Re: 8MM CINE FILM COPYING TO VIDEO
I've been giving out my email address in this way for very many years and Olga and her Nigerian pimp haven't made contact yet.
Re: 8MM CINE FILM COPYING TO VIDEO
That's the method I use too - the 'bots' don't pick up email addresses unless they have the actual '@' sign in them.
I bet the bots have fun with this post!! actual@sign.com is going to get a right binful methinks!
I bet the bots have fun with this post!! actual@sign.com is going to get a right binful methinks!
-
- Posts: 340
- Joined: Sun Feb 11, 2007 2:23 am
- Location: Colne, Lancashire
Re: 8MM CINE FILM COPYING TO VIDEO
Or you could get hold of a second hand Sony DSR 300 and use its clearscan setting to eliminate the fluctuations and run the projector at its normal speed which is what I have been saying for years.
I am sure Tom does it better his way but when I slow the projector down then speed up the film on the timeline to match a reel-reel tape's speed I sometimes seem to notice the jump where a frame has been cut out. At least, I assume that's what I'm seeing.
Peter.
I am sure Tom does it better his way but when I slow the projector down then speed up the film on the timeline to match a reel-reel tape's speed I sometimes seem to notice the jump where a frame has been cut out. At least, I assume that's what I'm seeing.
Peter.
Peter Copestake
-
- Posts: 7
- Joined: Sun Dec 18, 2011 2:39 pm
Re: 8MM CINE FILM COPYING TO VIDEO
Hi,granfer wrote:...you CAN alter the speed of your Eumig from a set 18 fps to 16.6666 fps by using a thyristor speed controller in the motor circuit
Can you say more about "you can alter the speed ... from a set 18 fps to 16.6666 fps by using a thyristor speed controller in the motor" please? Can you also use a 'variac' on some projectors, to drop the speed from 18 to 16&2/3rds, that's only a drop of 1&1/3rd frames per second.
I've also heard that some fixed speed projectors are more amenable to others for having their speeds varied, but that's as far as i got with that one - possibly it had something to do with AC and DC motors?
Sorry this is an old thread - a moderator might want to move it to a more contemporary discussion?
Thanks,
Ric