amateur/n-c films

[Brian Saberton]

Referring to this and the other thread on a similar topic it seems to me that we run the risk of tying ourselves up in knots and putting obstacles in the way of people with honest intent entering competitions if we make too much of an issue about how you define a professional film maker and their involvement in amateur productions.

First of all (and I speak as an entrant) I'm quite happy with "Rex" being in this years BIAFF and the award it received.
2- If film making clubs or groups can earn a bob or two to further the aims of the club from the sales of films made for other community groups where is the harm? In my opinion these can still be classified as amateur films. Personally I'm happy to see these kinds of film in our competitions. You might argue that it is taking work away from commercial companies but the fees they charge tend to be well beyond the resources of small societies.
3 - Being good at making a wedding video doesn't necessarily imply that you will be any good at making other genres of film as it is an entirely different skill.
4 - By the same token, owning expensive equipment doesn't in itself make you a good film maker. Good films are born out of ideas and imagination and there are plenty of examples where award winning films have been made with modest resources.

As to the debate about the word "amateur" this does seem to generate more angst in the film making world than elsewhere. On a recent series of TV's Master Chef the contestants were identified as "amateur cooks" without anyone seemingly being offended and it isn't a problem in the world of photography so I wonder why it is a problem for us?

[Mike Shaw]

Hear hear!

I think some film-makers equate 'amateur' with 'amateurish'. Hence (maybe) their call for differentiation or a new (and unecessary IMO) classification. Like 'non-commercial'. (Now define non-commercial ... ).

Do the photographers you mentioned regard their amateur photos as 'amateurish' I wonder? I doubt it. Otherwise they'd have tried to drop the word as well.

My amateur films are pretty amateurish, so I don't have a problem with the term.

Maybe we should start a new 'cause' ... bring back the Amateur!! ??

[Chrisbitz]

I keep hearing people say that "other people" think the term amateur is bad, but I don't and I'm not sure it is, by the majority, considered bad.

I think I've only seen one person here really talking about the negative connotations, but I'm not sure it's even slightly a majority opinion.

I say keep the word amateur, and DEMONSTRATE that amateur does NOT mean crap.

[Mike Shaw]

... and re-instate it in the name " IAC, The Film & Video Institute " ... (that 'A' )

[Willy]

... and re-instate it in the name " IAC, The Film & Video Institute " ... (that 'A' )

I agree Mike. Me too. I am still proud to be called an amateur. Being an amateur and making professional quality films. That's what we must try. Some years ago a professional filmmaker wanted to help me. I had just asked him to accompany me, not more, but he could not control himself when I was doing some camera work. He is a very kind man, but he is sometimes too impulsive. I will never forget the moment when he shouted at me : "You are only an amateur !". I replied immediately by saying : "Yes, I am the best amateur and you are the worst professional !" He was surprised by this and I myself was surprised that I had put him in his place immediately. Mind, we are still very good friends. The following year I went back to that place and I did everything at my own pace. I was accompanied by some of my own clubmates. The result was better. Dave will remember this. My clubmates and I visited him on our way back to Belgium.

Oh, Chrisbitz, I didn't understand the word "crap". Therefore I took my dictionary... It means s..t (joking). I would like to meet you when I am in Kent. I like your messages.

Everybody has his own opinion and we must respect it. Hopefully I am not regarded as an extremist or as someone who is too categorical in his opinion. Mike's feelings for instance have struck me. I understand him. I sympathise with his ideas, but I also find the AMPS-rules excellent. I think that interesting festivals can also be organised with films only made by real amateurs. What I have told you on this thread comes "Aus meiner Seele" (Hopefully I have not made a mistake, Dave)... This is my very last word in this interesting and useful discussion.

[Dave Watterson]

What I have told you on this thread comes "Aus meiner Seele"

Willy is NOT referring directly here to the Daily Mail Trophy winning film Aus der Seele but meaning "from my heart".