PROJECTORS

[Peter Stedman]

Our video club has, at last, the funds to purchase new projection equipment and all are now discussing (that means arguing) about the best projector. Some favour the Panasonic 3000 at over two grand whilst others prefer the Sony VPL HW10 at about 1850 pounds. One respected dealer says he recommends the Sony even though the Panasonic has a greater light output.

Has anyone any personal knowledge of either or both and any opinions one way or the other. I can see another year passing without any dcision being made. Pete

[billyfromConsett]

Our Panasonic PT-AX200e 720p projector is going to be added to for community film shows and we're going for a 1080p model. It will probably one of the two you mentioned Pete. Here is the said article from Projector Central:

http://www.projectorcentral.com/ae3000_ ... ootout.htm

If you find a good price for either of these two will you post it here or PM me? We are about to buy a 1080p projector for Newcastle.

cheers Billy

The PT-AX200e, whilst only 720p, is fantastic when you put HDV material through it. The full version should be amazing to see.

[Michael Slowe]

I have just presented an evening at Finchley Film Makers in North London and I have never had my stuff shown through such fantastic kit. I know they went to a great deal of trouble to get it right and the research was thorough. They first of all up scale both DVD's and Mini DV tape and then put it through the new projector via an HDMI lead and the result is spectacular! I don't have the technical details to hand but I'll try and persuade one of the members to post an explanation on this forum. When I went to NERIAC in Scarborough recently I thought they were state of the art, Finchley blew my socks off! Obviously technically things are advancing at a rapid rate.

[tom hardwick]

When I read posts such as Michael's (above) I feel there's life in the ubiquitous standard definition DVD yet. Of course Blu-ray is better and of course broadcasters won't consider anything but HD (unless it's phone-cam video of planes landing on the Hudson), but upscalers and superb projectors have breathed new life into the 1/3 rd mega-pixel (720 x 576) frame.

Last week I had one of my films shown at the Thurrock Theatre. I simply presented the projectionist with a 20 pence DVD-R and there was no way that anyone in the audience would have said it 'wasn't sharp enough'. I'm pretty sure a BD would have had more colour space and noticeably better dynamic range, but at what cost?

I ask 'what cost?' in the sense that I was 100% certain the projectionist could play my DVD - in fact I didn't even bother to ask. I'd be about 15% certain he could play a Mini DV tape, maybe 5% that he could play a fullsize DVCAM tape and maybe the same for a BD.

So DVD lives to fight another day, having been resuscitated by the upscaler and technology that has to admit that the library is worth preserving - and if at all possible - improving.

tom.

[billyfromConsett]

I wouldn't be 100% certain that a dvd player could play my perfectly made DVD. Biaff every year have most trouble with DVD's. Maybe new upscaling DVD players will play the highest number of disks.

The theatre might not be the same as a typical club where I'd be more sure than 15% certain that a miniDV could be played. Clubs coping with DVcam I'd guess would be lower.

[Roy]

Those interested in Upscaling DVD players for feeding projectors and Tv's have a read of this.
http://www.dvdtimes.co.uk/content.php?contentid=65287

[PeterVideo]

Mike, Tom, everyone, the Finchley Projector (which I chose based on the recommendation of several magazines) is an Infocus IN82 - it upscales to 1080p HD. The details are at
http://www.infocus.com/Products/Projectors/IN82.aspx

It does have a rather unusual appearence - like a flattened Darth Vader helmet. It is also unusual in that there is not a single button on the unit but all the considerable number of controls are from the remote - presumably because it is designed to be ceiling mounted as well as freestanding. This makes the control process quick.

The list price was £3000 - we paid less and I suspect it is even lower since I got it last year. One important element in the performance is that it is a DLP projector which I think now deliver better results than the cheaper LCD type. Look on Wikipedia for more explanation on this specification.

Happy to answer any further questions.

Peter Kidman
Finchley Film makers.

[Dave Watterson]

Thanks for revealing the secret of the projector that blew Michael Slowe away !

My first port of call when considering projectors is http://www.projectorcentral.com where the reviews are very detailed and it is easy to see which of the latest projectors is proving most popular.

If you are a bit hazy about the differences between LCD and DLP projection systems these links go to good, simple diagrams which illustrate the principles:
http://tinyurl.com/cne3ks
http://tinyurl.com/dk8sr4

In recent years the systems have both produced excellent results and which is best each season tends to alternate between them.

The InFocus IN82 is a machine which the manufacturer thinks is better sold by specialist dealers because to get the very best results it needs to be set up carefully. Yet this is true of ALL video projectors. They may work fairly well out of the box, but most should be carefully adjusted in your viewing conditions. There are usually "advanced" menus offering very detailed control over how the picture appears. If you are spending close to £3000 on a machine, consider spending a bit more getting a specialist dealer to install it and set it up properly. Experts often take an hour or more to set up a machine.

One last word to the wise ... good projectors have "scalers" built in to them. Essentially these process the incoming video in various ways to get the best out of it. But good DVD players often also have scalers built in to them. You should always disable one or the other rather than having both work on the image ... generally the ones in projectors are better than the ones in players but it is worth experimenting to see if that is true in your case.

Peter - what kit does Finchley use to play tapes and discs into this new machine?

Dave

PS I love your description of its appearance - "like a flattened Darth Vader helmet" !

[billyfromConsett]

Hi Peter
Welcome to the forum.

When I read Michael's note here I wondered what projector Finchley have, as I was at Scarborough also and the picture on the screen was very good that weekend. As I remember they had Huddersfield club's Optoma projector (but don't quote me on that). I don't know we had any high def 1080 movies, they may have been upscaled standard def. Biaff at present don't accept high def yet. But they did look (and sound) very good.

The in82 looks to be a brilliant job - maybe the brightest projector for under £3000.
There's a comparitive review (though it compares in the IN82 to the Panasonic) about a few of them here: http://www.projectorreviews.com/panason ... titors.php

One of the projector features that I think is important, though rarely mentioned, is how black the blacks look. I say this because many people now, and for years to come, will stick to 4:3, which means the 16:9 screen will be wider than needed. And unless your club has movable borders at the sides of the screen, if the screen sides are lit at all, people will notice that the sides of the screen will 'glow' a tad. In this respect the Panasonic AE3000 ticks that box as far as the reviewers say. It's also £2000 - which is our budget.

Hey, we've got choices!

[Peter Stedman]

Thanks for all those replies that I have passed to the secretary to mull over with the rest of the mafia . . . . . By the time a decision is made there will be newer and better models on the market. Pete

[billyfromConsett]

By the time a decision is made there will be newer and better models on the market.

[PeterVideo]

Hi HD fans- The site mentioned at 'There's a comparative review (though it compares in the IN82 to the Panasonic) about a few of them here: http://www.projectorreviews.com/panason ... titors.php'

is one of the best I have seen and the new Panasonic mentioned therein looks as if it may be worth waiting for. The projector (IN82) we have is hopefully more than good enough for the next 5 years but still has a few operational quirks - which whilst not major i could do without.

I am happy to explain to anyone who is interested and considering this particular model.

Incidentally this projector was just part of a complete and expensive kit overhaul (now complete) and I am hoping to write it all up for all to read when I have a moment.

Peter Kidman
Finchley Film Makers

[billyfromConsett]

I'd be interested to know which gadget you plug into the projector to play everything with.

We need to play DVD's, MiniDV's, HDV miniDV tapes and the occasional SVHS, and at competitions, swapping between these various formats gives the projectionist some buttons to press.

[PeterVideo]

Hi billy

The problem you describe is precisely the problem we had and as the the poor sap who was stuck with unplugging and replugging all these various sources - slowing the whole process down and occasionally getting in a tangle I was the one who had to come up with a solution. The answer in a nutshell is to use a home cinema amplifier which routes sound and vision via multiple inputs (5 at the last count) - be they composite, y/c, HDMI, component etc into one video output and send that signal to the projector via an HDMI cable thus enabling source switching to be acheived with one press of the button on the amp. We bought a Denon 1909 but there are a quite a few others which do the same.
Hope that helps
Peter Kidman
FFM

[billyfromConsett]

Whey Hey! The Denon AVR-1909 is the item I bought from Richersounds about a week ago, but haven't taken it to the club yet as I am still waiting for for some HDMI cables from ebay.

The sales gumf says it upscales everying if you like and we can plug analogue in as well as digital and keep them lip-synched. If your saying it works as it should then we're sorted.

Thanks for that.