Sorry about blank posting...hit the wrong button.
Re Dave asking about why amateurs don't make music films.
Why don't they make romances or war films?
I recall Kevin Brownlow making a big war film, many years ago
and there was one about the Battle of Culloden(?).
Never seen a great amateur romance...has there been one?
Nor a story about racing/sport story. A few science fiction,
but not using actors.
Is this because the requirements to make such films are beyond the reach
of the amateur? (Good actors/huge sets/racing cars etc etc)
But one can scale down...make a war film about, say, two soldiers going from
house to house seeking out snipers. That is within grasp.
But it's the same ol story....lack of a *GOOD* story!!
Maybe amateurs ought to join the writers guild and learn how to
flourish the pen about before waving the camera about.
Albert....flourishing.
Can we go further?
-
Ned C
Re: Can we go further?
"AN" <forums@theiac.org.uk> wrote:
many amateurs is that they have difficulty accessing the wide range of talents
necessary to make a narrative film. Most amateur film makers start by buying
a camera and then joining a club so that there is a sort of camera owning
culture in clubs. The natural extension is an NL editing system. These are
two important crafts but all narrative films start with a good script so
where to find the writers? We have talked about directing and acting before
and these present obstacles. There are also the sheer organisational demands
of making a narrative film, there has to be a producer who drives the project
and at the end of the day a hobby becomes hard work so it is easy to understand
why amateurs stick to relatively simple subjects. As an example your story
of two soldiers, you need two lead actors, supporting actors for the snipers,
uniforms, rifles, abandoned or damaged houses, plus a good script. In addition
to the camera operator you will need make-up, set dresser, props supplier,
sound recordist, etc and none of these are minor skills! I believe that it
took Kevin Brownlow years to make his WW2 film. I wonder at the idea of an
amateur musical, bad acting is quite an experience add bad singing and dancing
and the result would be absolutely rivetting!
Ned C
Film making is a co-operative art and I think one of the problems faced by
Re Dave asking about why amateurs don't make music films.
Why don't they make romances or war films?
I recall Kevin Brownlow making a big war film, many years ago
and there was one about the Battle of Culloden(?).
Never seen a great amateur romance...has there been one?
Nor a story about racing/sport story. A few science fiction,
but not using actors.
Is this because the requirements to make such films are beyond the reach
of the amateur? (Good actors/huge sets/racing cars etc etc)
But one can scale down...make a war film about, say, two soldiers going
from
house to house seeking out snipers. That is within grasp.
But it's the same ol story....lack of a *GOOD* story!!
Maybe amateurs ought to join the writers guild and learn how to
flourish the pen about before waving the camera about.
Albert....flourishing.
many amateurs is that they have difficulty accessing the wide range of talents
necessary to make a narrative film. Most amateur film makers start by buying
a camera and then joining a club so that there is a sort of camera owning
culture in clubs. The natural extension is an NL editing system. These are
two important crafts but all narrative films start with a good script so
where to find the writers? We have talked about directing and acting before
and these present obstacles. There are also the sheer organisational demands
of making a narrative film, there has to be a producer who drives the project
and at the end of the day a hobby becomes hard work so it is easy to understand
why amateurs stick to relatively simple subjects. As an example your story
of two soldiers, you need two lead actors, supporting actors for the snipers,
uniforms, rifles, abandoned or damaged houses, plus a good script. In addition
to the camera operator you will need make-up, set dresser, props supplier,
sound recordist, etc and none of these are minor skills! I believe that it
took Kevin Brownlow years to make his WW2 film. I wonder at the idea of an
amateur musical, bad acting is quite an experience add bad singing and dancing
and the result would be absolutely rivetting!
Ned C
-
AN
Re: Can we go further?
"Ned C" <gloss@fred.com> wrote:
to recall when the SAS stormed the embassy in
Kensington some years ago they were all in civies. Dummy rifles these days
would probably end up by actors being shot by armed police, called out when
some nosey parker spotted them.
Snipers don't always operate in abandoned houses tho'....this could be part
of the story....bit like the 'Petrified Forest' when an ordinary house gets
taken over.
But again, the actors etc are the problem, so we are back where we started.
I agree about a ham dancing film being rivetting!
Real seat glue!
But better to go down quickly trying something new, for
maybe judges should now give marks for a film maker's courage!
Albert...a bit cowardly.
Yes, your right about the uniforms, but there are ways around maybe...I seem"AN" <forums@theiac.org.uk> wrote:
Re Dave asking about why amateurs don't make music films.
Why don't they make romances or war films?
I recall Kevin Brownlow making a big war film, many years ago
and there was one about the Battle of Culloden(?).
Film making is a co-operative art and I think one of the problems faced
by
many amateurs is that they have difficulty accessing the wide range of talents
necessary to make a narrative film. Most amateur film makers start by buying
a camera and then joining a club so that there is a sort of camera owning
culture in clubs. The natural extension is an NL editing system. These are
two important crafts but all narrative films start with a good script so
where to find the writers? We have talked about directing and acting before
and these present obstacles. There are also the sheer organisational demands
of making a narrative film, there has to be a producer who drives the project
and at the end of the day a hobby becomes hard work so it is easy to understand
why amateurs stick to relatively simple subjects. As an example your story
of two soldiers, you need two lead actors, supporting actors for the snipers,
uniforms, rifles, abandoned or damaged houses, plus a good script. In addition
to the camera operator you will need make-up, set dresser, props supplier,
sound recordist, etc and none of these are minor skills! I believe that
it
took Kevin Brownlow years to make his WW2 film. I wonder at the idea of
an
amateur musical, bad acting is quite an experience add bad singing and dancing
and the result would be absolutely rivetting!
to recall when the SAS stormed the embassy in
Kensington some years ago they were all in civies. Dummy rifles these days
would probably end up by actors being shot by armed police, called out when
some nosey parker spotted them.
Snipers don't always operate in abandoned houses tho'....this could be part
of the story....bit like the 'Petrified Forest' when an ordinary house gets
taken over.
But again, the actors etc are the problem, so we are back where we started.
I agree about a ham dancing film being rivetting!
Real seat glue!
But better to go down quickly trying something new, for
maybe judges should now give marks for a film maker's courage!
Albert...a bit cowardly.
-
Michael Slowe
Re: Can we go further?
"AN" <AnimatioN@btopenworld.com> wrote:
to the commercial films we see on say TV and which gain acceptance from a
non filmaking audience, then in my opinion most of us have to steer clear
of "story" films that need the back up skills outlined by one of our number
in this thread. It is sometimes done by very talented people but so rarely.
The thought of singing and dancing as well bogglles the mind!
Who says we have to compete with the pros? Just pride I suppose and consideration
to our audiences. I take enough stick as it is from those persuaded to view
my work and even though I may be regarded as reasonably competant by my fellow
members of "the movement" outsiders quite properly are merely viewing a film
- and boy do they speak their minds!
If we aim to make films which at least have some relationship (however distant)"Ned C" <gloss@fred.com> wrote:
"AN" <forums@theiac.org.uk> wrote:
Re Dave asking about why amateurs don't make music films.
Why don't they make romances or war films?
I recall Kevin Brownlow making a big war film, many years ago
and there was one about the Battle of Culloden(?).
Film making is a co-operative art and I think one of the problems faced
by
many amateurs is that they have difficulty accessing the wide range of
talents
necessary to make a narrative film. Most amateur film makers start by buying
a camera and then joining a club so that there is a sort of camera owning
culture in clubs. The natural extension is an NL editing system. These
are
two important crafts but all narrative films start with a good script so
where to find the writers? We have talked about directing and acting before
and these present obstacles. There are also the sheer organisational demands
of making a narrative film, there has to be a producer who drives the project
and at the end of the day a hobby becomes hard work so it is easy to understand
why amateurs stick to relatively simple subjects. As an example your story
of two soldiers, you need two lead actors, supporting actors for the snipers,
uniforms, rifles, abandoned or damaged houses, plus a good script. In addition
to the camera operator you will need make-up, set dresser, props supplier,
sound recordist, etc and none of these are minor skills! I believe that
it
took Kevin Brownlow years to make his WW2 film. I wonder at the idea of
an
amateur musical, bad acting is quite an experience add bad singing and
dancing
and the result would be absolutely rivetting!
Yes, your right about the uniforms, but there are ways around maybe...I
seem
to recall when the SAS stormed the embassy in
Kensington some years ago they were all in civies. Dummy rifles these days
would probably end up by actors being shot by armed police, called out when
some nosey parker spotted them.
Snipers don't always operate in abandoned houses tho'....this could be part
of the story....bit like the 'Petrified Forest' when an ordinary house gets
taken over.
But again, the actors etc are the problem, so we are back where we started.
I agree about a ham dancing film being rivetting!
Real seat glue!
But better to go down quickly trying something new, for
maybe judges should now give marks for a film maker's courage!
Albert...a bit cowardly.
to the commercial films we see on say TV and which gain acceptance from a
non filmaking audience, then in my opinion most of us have to steer clear
of "story" films that need the back up skills outlined by one of our number
in this thread. It is sometimes done by very talented people but so rarely.
The thought of singing and dancing as well bogglles the mind!
Who says we have to compete with the pros? Just pride I suppose and consideration
to our audiences. I take enough stick as it is from those persuaded to view
my work and even though I may be regarded as reasonably competant by my fellow
members of "the movement" outsiders quite properly are merely viewing a film
- and boy do they speak their minds!
-
Atta Chui
Re: Can we go further?
Even documentary can be "expensive" to make. As amateurs, we put together
some clips we carefully film at holidays and do our best at post-production
level to put together something nice. However, if you want to make a different
class of documentaries, say, a documentary on a social topic, there are a
lot of work. You need to do research. Find people to talk to. Get permission
to visit organisations. Maybe you need to wake up at six to join some demonstrators.
Negotiate with BBC for a clip or two, etc.
I make a lot of narrative films. Unlike Albert, I have seen a lot amateur
narrative films as well. This year's Daily Mail Challenge Trophy was won
by a narrative film set in the backdrop of WW2. I went to Channel 7' video
show. Most of the Channel 7's productions shown there were story films.
However, some amateur filmmakers spend a lot of effort to make their films
"look like pros". I think this may be off the balance. You see, the advantage
of being an amateur is that you can express your idea in any way you like.
There is no studio boss to tell you how to rewrite the script. We make good
film by being creative. I believe many of us, being limited in resources,
can make a creative film.
Atta
some clips we carefully film at holidays and do our best at post-production
level to put together something nice. However, if you want to make a different
class of documentaries, say, a documentary on a social topic, there are a
lot of work. You need to do research. Find people to talk to. Get permission
to visit organisations. Maybe you need to wake up at six to join some demonstrators.
Negotiate with BBC for a clip or two, etc.
I make a lot of narrative films. Unlike Albert, I have seen a lot amateur
narrative films as well. This year's Daily Mail Challenge Trophy was won
by a narrative film set in the backdrop of WW2. I went to Channel 7' video
show. Most of the Channel 7's productions shown there were story films.
However, some amateur filmmakers spend a lot of effort to make their films
"look like pros". I think this may be off the balance. You see, the advantage
of being an amateur is that you can express your idea in any way you like.
There is no studio boss to tell you how to rewrite the script. We make good
film by being creative. I believe many of us, being limited in resources,
can make a creative film.
Atta
-
AN
Re: Can we go further?
"Michael Slowe" <michael.slowe@btinternet.com> wrote:
they produce every type of film...documentary/story/animation/comedy/action
etc etc.
We all do our best within our confines, whether that be money/acting/sets/script/editing
etc.
But that is no reason not to make a war film... or song and dance either...at
present I am about to embark on a pair of wellington boots dancing. ("Putting
the boot in!"). Now it's no good comparing that with pro Fred Astaire and
I will not try to ape him in any manner. We amateurs, as someone said, can
explore other avenues that the big studios avoid.....
MGM never made a wellington boot film..and never will!
Albert....having the will
Well EVERY type of film we make can be compared with pros asWho says we have to compete with the pros? Just pride I suppose and consideration
to our audiences.
they produce every type of film...documentary/story/animation/comedy/action
etc etc.
We all do our best within our confines, whether that be money/acting/sets/script/editing
etc.
But that is no reason not to make a war film... or song and dance either...at
present I am about to embark on a pair of wellington boots dancing. ("Putting
the boot in!"). Now it's no good comparing that with pro Fred Astaire and
I will not try to ape him in any manner. We amateurs, as someone said, can
explore other avenues that the big studios avoid.....
MGM never made a wellington boot film..and never will!
Albert....having the will