Sorry - I'm tired and I just posted (for the first time, the following message
on the NLE forum by mistake so please ignore the other thread and answer
this one:
Every day thousands of people appear on TV (via documentary or news items),
whether they want to or not, and they cannot all have been approached for
permission to use their image/s. We often see close-ups of faces and folk
seem oblivious to the film makers.
As I'm currently shooting a documentary, can anyone tell me what is the very
latest regarding the legality of filming in public?
Cheers
Paul
Filming in public
-
Atta Chui
Re: Filming in public
Depends on how you're going to use your film, perhaps you have to consult
a media lawyer in the end :-> but there are a lot of common sense going on
in this area...
Like if it is obvious that you cannot stand at a public place to take a particular
shot then you might be in trouble... if the purpose of your clip is to say
there are many people at the train stations then it should be ok whether
you are doing a close up or not. Now if your clip suggests an officer worker
from Barclay bank comes to this station every day, since you become specific,
you probably need to begin to think about it.
Wonder if other people have different thoughts?
Atta
a media lawyer in the end :-> but there are a lot of common sense going on
in this area...
Like if it is obvious that you cannot stand at a public place to take a particular
shot then you might be in trouble... if the purpose of your clip is to say
there are many people at the train stations then it should be ok whether
you are doing a close up or not. Now if your clip suggests an officer worker
from Barclay bank comes to this station every day, since you become specific,
you probably need to begin to think about it.
Wonder if other people have different thoughts?
Atta
-
Paul Miley
Re: Filming in public
Atta
Funnily enough, I do need to get (amongst others) shots of crowds at the
railway station! I also need footage of people arriving at the airport, bathing/surfing/swimming
by the seaside / construction workers creating new facilities/people caught
in traffic jams etc., I want to (briefly) show the attractions /impact of
tourism on the area where I live as an introduction to my documentary. These
are, as I say, the kinds of shots you see virtually every day on British
television (I saw eleven instances on TV in just one evening). The professionals
who capture these shots would not have been able to get permission from the
masses even if they wanted to.
Within the main body of my project, I want to show individuals going about
their everyday jobs. I have been taping some of these folk for four months
now and I feel like a part of the family. (It's great because sometimes they
come and ask me to get specific shots of them or make suggestions). Do I
need a release form for these people who repeatedly appear in close shots?
What made me think about this (yes - I should have done it first!), was reading
about an incident in the U.S. where a documentary film maker won a case,
against people
who tried to sue because they hadn't given permission to be included in his
production. If I remember rightly, I think the verdict was reached in his
favour because the same people appeared in a number of his shots (presumably
over a long period) and seemed happy to do so at that time.
Does anyone else have any insight into any current/recent legal aspects of
British law? It seems we are going the American way now where everyone is
suing everyone else for anything.
I was in a pub the other day with a wedding party, and the landlady was very
nervous about me grabbing a few shots of the groom because there were a couple
of children in the background -- new laws (quite rightly) out to protect
children, but the landlady could have been in trouble apparently, it just
shows how the world is changing.
Cheers
Paul
Funnily enough, I do need to get (amongst others) shots of crowds at the
railway station! I also need footage of people arriving at the airport, bathing/surfing/swimming
by the seaside / construction workers creating new facilities/people caught
in traffic jams etc., I want to (briefly) show the attractions /impact of
tourism on the area where I live as an introduction to my documentary. These
are, as I say, the kinds of shots you see virtually every day on British
television (I saw eleven instances on TV in just one evening). The professionals
who capture these shots would not have been able to get permission from the
masses even if they wanted to.
Within the main body of my project, I want to show individuals going about
their everyday jobs. I have been taping some of these folk for four months
now and I feel like a part of the family. (It's great because sometimes they
come and ask me to get specific shots of them or make suggestions). Do I
need a release form for these people who repeatedly appear in close shots?
What made me think about this (yes - I should have done it first!), was reading
about an incident in the U.S. where a documentary film maker won a case,
against people
who tried to sue because they hadn't given permission to be included in his
production. If I remember rightly, I think the verdict was reached in his
favour because the same people appeared in a number of his shots (presumably
over a long period) and seemed happy to do so at that time.
Does anyone else have any insight into any current/recent legal aspects of
British law? It seems we are going the American way now where everyone is
suing everyone else for anything.
I was in a pub the other day with a wedding party, and the landlady was very
nervous about me grabbing a few shots of the groom because there were a couple
of children in the background -- new laws (quite rightly) out to protect
children, but the landlady could have been in trouble apparently, it just
shows how the world is changing.
Cheers
Paul
-
Ned C
Re: Filming in public
"Paul Miley" <paul.miley@ntlworld.com> wrote:
airports, railway stations, building sites, pubs etc are private property
and given the current sensitivity it may not be easy to get permission. For
example, some years ago we wanted to film in Stansted airport and they wanted
a fee plus we had to pay for security. I do not know how the law views filming
into private property from a public place, eg a building site filmed from
the street, but expect the site manager to very quickly come and ask what
you are doing fearful that you are looking for some violation. Secondly,
using a tripod in the street, ie a public place, usually requires permission
from the police as you will create an obstruction. The answer would seem
to be to use a small inconspicuous camera and look like someone making a
home movie. Obviously you can't ask all the people getting off a train to
sign releases and you are probably OK provided you do not use the shot in
a juxtaposition that suggests that the people are all criminals or that 25
percent of them are wife beaters. (which 25 percent?)
If you are making a film in which these shots are incidental I don't think
you will have a problem,
Ned C
Some thoughts. First, you need permission to film on private property andAtta
Funnily enough, I do need to get (amongst others) shots of crowds at the
railway station! I also need footage of people arriving at the airport,
bathing/surfing/swimming
by the seaside / construction workers creating new facilities/people caught
in traffic jams etc., I want to (briefly) show the attractions /impact of
tourism on the area where I live as an introduction to my documentary.
airports, railway stations, building sites, pubs etc are private property
and given the current sensitivity it may not be easy to get permission. For
example, some years ago we wanted to film in Stansted airport and they wanted
a fee plus we had to pay for security. I do not know how the law views filming
into private property from a public place, eg a building site filmed from
the street, but expect the site manager to very quickly come and ask what
you are doing fearful that you are looking for some violation. Secondly,
using a tripod in the street, ie a public place, usually requires permission
from the police as you will create an obstruction. The answer would seem
to be to use a small inconspicuous camera and look like someone making a
home movie. Obviously you can't ask all the people getting off a train to
sign releases and you are probably OK provided you do not use the shot in
a juxtaposition that suggests that the people are all criminals or that 25
percent of them are wife beaters. (which 25 percent?)
If you are making a film in which these shots are incidental I don't think
you will have a problem,
Ned C
-
Michael Slowe
Re: Filming in public
"Paul Miley" <forums@theiac.org.uk> wrote:
any real concerns about copyright when it comes to people who we may catch
on tape. If the piece was a TV commercial for a major outfit then certainly
there may be an issue but surely not in an amateur film that hardly sees
the light of day. As for permission to film I have rarely had problems. Lord's
cricket ground wouldn't play (I have been a MCC member for 40 years), also
Wimbledon, but as those who saw Perfect Pitch would know Arsenal were quite
happy provided there was no commercial aspect involved.
As I have said before surely our films don't get the exposure to warrantSorry - I'm tired and I just posted (for the first time, the following message
on the NLE forum by mistake so please ignore the other thread and answer
this one:
Every day thousands of people appear on TV (via documentary or news items),
whether they want to or not, and they cannot all have been approached for
permission to use their image/s. We often see close-ups of faces and folk
seem oblivious to the film makers.
As I'm currently shooting a documentary, can anyone tell me what is the
very
latest regarding the legality of filming in public?
Cheers
Paul
any real concerns about copyright when it comes to people who we may catch
on tape. If the piece was a TV commercial for a major outfit then certainly
there may be an issue but surely not in an amateur film that hardly sees
the light of day. As for permission to film I have rarely had problems. Lord's
cricket ground wouldn't play (I have been a MCC member for 40 years), also
Wimbledon, but as those who saw Perfect Pitch would know Arsenal were quite
happy provided there was no commercial aspect involved.
-
Paul Miley
Re: Filming in public
Hello everyone, thanks for your input. I've just got in from work and typed
into a search engine 'filming in public.' Straight away I was pointed in
the direction of the British Film Commission web site. The following is of
great interest:
"If you film passers-by whilst shooting in a public place, you don't need
to ask permission to feature their faces in your film. Under UK law, the
copyright of film shot in a public place resides with the film-maker."
This is quite a relief. On the other hand, I will have to digest lots of
other headings/concerns like public liability insurance (looks scary and
very expensive. The following too is of interest:
"If you want to film anywhere other than on private land you will need to
liaise with the appropriate local authority. Local authorities (also known
as councils) have responsibility for public land, public buildings, roads
and parking. The local screen commissions can tell you who to contact at
their local authorities. You can find a list of these commissions on the
UK Screen Commission website.
Procedures for dealing with filming requests vary from authority to authority,
but they all encourage filming in their area. Often, you'll find that local
authorities own buildings that are ideal for filming."
I know someone who had an awkward time trying to get permission to film on
a beach with his large conspicuous camcorder. I think I'll take your advice
and just stick to a small three chip camcorder, get in there grab the couple
of long shots I need and B off.
I haven't been involved with a documentary for perhaps twenty years - Oh
for those carefree days where you just went out and concentrated only on
the difficulties of shooting!
Paul
into a search engine 'filming in public.' Straight away I was pointed in
the direction of the British Film Commission web site. The following is of
great interest:
"If you film passers-by whilst shooting in a public place, you don't need
to ask permission to feature their faces in your film. Under UK law, the
copyright of film shot in a public place resides with the film-maker."
This is quite a relief. On the other hand, I will have to digest lots of
other headings/concerns like public liability insurance (looks scary and
very expensive. The following too is of interest:
"If you want to film anywhere other than on private land you will need to
liaise with the appropriate local authority. Local authorities (also known
as councils) have responsibility for public land, public buildings, roads
and parking. The local screen commissions can tell you who to contact at
their local authorities. You can find a list of these commissions on the
UK Screen Commission website.
Procedures for dealing with filming requests vary from authority to authority,
but they all encourage filming in their area. Often, you'll find that local
authorities own buildings that are ideal for filming."
I know someone who had an awkward time trying to get permission to film on
a beach with his large conspicuous camcorder. I think I'll take your advice
and just stick to a small three chip camcorder, get in there grab the couple
of long shots I need and B off.
I haven't been involved with a documentary for perhaps twenty years - Oh
for those carefree days where you just went out and concentrated only on
the difficulties of shooting!
Paul
-
Ken Wilson
Re: Filming in public
Hi Paul. I will add my two-pennyworth as "they" say.
Over 30 odd years and now almost 60 films, I have rarely had any problems
filming all over the place. My fiction films have included locations which
have been many and varied. Several years ago, we NEVER asked permission to
film ANYWHERE, just went in, did the shoot and got out. Bus stations, railway
stations, parks, seaside promenade, tourist attractions, national park areas;
all sorts. Then, around 10 years ago, I discovered that most people don`t
mind beind asked to use their premises as a film location. I think that they
see it as being a bit glamorous and exciting. Since then, we have only been
refused twice and on both occasions found an alternative which was better.
Re-signing forms by people who are in the film. We are currently making a
documentary at the local Hospice as a kind of promo. All patients have signed
a release form to allow us to use their images. Ken.
Over 30 odd years and now almost 60 films, I have rarely had any problems
filming all over the place. My fiction films have included locations which
have been many and varied. Several years ago, we NEVER asked permission to
film ANYWHERE, just went in, did the shoot and got out. Bus stations, railway
stations, parks, seaside promenade, tourist attractions, national park areas;
all sorts. Then, around 10 years ago, I discovered that most people don`t
mind beind asked to use their premises as a film location. I think that they
see it as being a bit glamorous and exciting. Since then, we have only been
refused twice and on both occasions found an alternative which was better.
Re-signing forms by people who are in the film. We are currently making a
documentary at the local Hospice as a kind of promo. All patients have signed
a release form to allow us to use their images. Ken.
-
Cinema For Thurso Group
Re: Filming in public
An interesting dilema, and one where CFT is keen to know the score also. I've
always taken the view that when filming in public the camera is something
that stands out so if a person does not want to be filmed they will either
duck away or specifically say so. In my experience it is most common that
people turn away in their uncertanty as to whether the camera is on and running.
If I were to take a close-up of a passer-by I would take the time to approach
the person and tell them that a shot has or is about to be taken and ask
whether they have any objections. I also make a point of asking their name
on the grounds that it has then the right to appear on the films' titles.
This too, requires their consent.
On the subject of surfing, there was a time some years back when CFT devoted
a lot of film to surfing at Thurso East. One local lad decided that he was
"entitled" to royalties. His feathers were swiftly trimmed as he was informed
that no-one asked him to be on the wave at any time, his presence being purely
concidental with the camera being there and furthermore the fact that public
appear in the news without being asked and also have no right to royalties
meant that the local surfer wouldn't see a penny.
A triffle on the harsh side of strict maybe, but that's the way our cookie
crumbles!
always taken the view that when filming in public the camera is something
that stands out so if a person does not want to be filmed they will either
duck away or specifically say so. In my experience it is most common that
people turn away in their uncertanty as to whether the camera is on and running.
If I were to take a close-up of a passer-by I would take the time to approach
the person and tell them that a shot has or is about to be taken and ask
whether they have any objections. I also make a point of asking their name
on the grounds that it has then the right to appear on the films' titles.
This too, requires their consent.
On the subject of surfing, there was a time some years back when CFT devoted
a lot of film to surfing at Thurso East. One local lad decided that he was
"entitled" to royalties. His feathers were swiftly trimmed as he was informed
that no-one asked him to be on the wave at any time, his presence being purely
concidental with the camera being there and furthermore the fact that public
appear in the news without being asked and also have no right to royalties
meant that the local surfer wouldn't see a penny.
A triffle on the harsh side of strict maybe, but that's the way our cookie
crumbles!
-
AN
Re: Filming in public
"Paul Miley" <forums@theiac.org.uk> wrote:
of London I believe, one needed some sort of licence for a tripod... nowadays
if someone tripped over it you would get sued!
With all the modern anti-wobble gadgets on video cameras and bean bags as
steadies, one doesn't need a tripod so often?
Albert....still on two legs.
No one has mentioned the erection of tripods in public. Years ago in partsAs I'm currently shooting a documentary, can anyone tell me what is the
very
latest regarding the legality of filming in public?
of London I believe, one needed some sort of licence for a tripod... nowadays
if someone tripped over it you would get sued!
With all the modern anti-wobble gadgets on video cameras and bean bags as
steadies, one doesn't need a tripod so often?
Albert....still on two legs.
-
Paul Miley
Re: Filming in public
"With all the modern anti-wobble gadgets on video cameras and bean bags as
steadies, one doesn't need a tripod so often?
Albert....still on two legs."
Speaking of bags...Years ago my wife bought me a small inflatable bag, well
deflatable really. You placed it around the camera on any support (e.g. bench,
table, rock) and as the air was let out of it the bag moulded itself into
a sturdy form which held the camera steady. Does anyone know if these are
still available? If so, where from please?
steadies, one doesn't need a tripod so often?
Albert....still on two legs."
Speaking of bags...Years ago my wife bought me a small inflatable bag, well
deflatable really. You placed it around the camera on any support (e.g. bench,
table, rock) and as the air was let out of it the bag moulded itself into
a sturdy form which held the camera steady. Does anyone know if these are
still available? If so, where from please?
-
Paul Miley
Re: Filming in public
"Speaking of bags...Years ago my wife bought me" - etc.,
OK, OK, I've just had sixty four private messages telling me off for the
my wife/old bag association!
I apologise, but not to her, the momentary sign of weakness would go to her
head.
Darling...if you are reading this I CAN explain (it was a hacker - honest).
Your loving husband
Paul.
OK, OK, I've just had sixty four private messages telling me off for the
my wife/old bag association!
I apologise, but not to her, the momentary sign of weakness would go to her
head.
Darling...if you are reading this I CAN explain (it was a hacker - honest).
Your loving husband
Paul.
-
Ned C
Re: Filming in public
">
Ned C
>
Obviously anything by one, Ned C is not read! See my earlier post,No one has mentioned the erection of tripods in public. Years ago in parts
of London I believe, one needed some sort of licence for a tripod... nowadays
if someone tripped over it you would get sued!
With all the modern anti-wobble gadgets on video cameras and bean bags as
steadies, one doesn't need a tripod so often?
Albert....still on two legs.
Ned C
>
-
AN
Re: Filming in public
"Ned C" <goals@nets.com> wrote:
I sent my letter....wait till yer my age and
you will more than likely be doing the same, and some other 'young' upstart
will be doing the same to you!
Albert....standing on ONE leg in the corner!
Sorry Ned. I HAD read your remarks about tripods, but slipped my mind whenObviously anything by one, Ned C is not read! See my earlier post,
I sent my letter....wait till yer my age and
you will more than likely be doing the same, and some other 'young' upstart
will be doing the same to you!
Albert....standing on ONE leg in the corner!