Does anyone in IAC do film or have all gone to Video?

A forum for sharing views on the art of film, video and AV sequence making as well as on competitions, judging and festivals.
Michael Carter

Does anyone in IAC do film or have all gone to Video?

Post by Michael Carter » Sun Apr 27, 2003 9:32 pm

I'd like to join a FILM club in the SW UK. I have been shooting a lot of Regular
8mm Black & White and have 16mm negative Plus-X in the freezer for later,
after I can previsualize zones some.
Are there still clubs devoted to film making?
Sure, I have a video camera, too. I even have a workprinter to transfer film
to video, however, it is film that I want to shoot and learn more about.

I subscribe to ACE.
Should I join IAC?

Michael Carter

Dave Watterson

Re: Does anyone in IAC do film or have all gone to Video?

Post by Dave Watterson » Mon Apr 28, 2003 10:07 am

Hi Michael,

Welcome to the forum. Yes, of course, you should join IAC and get involved
with your nearest club. There are a great many people in the Institute who
are still very much involved with cine film - even including 9.5mm. The
emphasis is on video only because that is what the majority use now.

Of course the two media share a great deal in common so what is true about
movie making for video is usually also true for cine.

I will drop you a hint ... most of the older members in any club started
on cine (16mm, standard-8mm or super-8mm) and though they may now work on
video would love a chance to talk about cine with you.

The best place to start is by emailing info@theiac.org.uk where you will
be answered by Janet and Pamela. Tell them which part of the South West
you are in and they will be able to point you towards the nearest clubs.
They can also send you information about the IAC and the advantages of joining.

It is good to hear from you ... we need a decent cine chap here among all
those who have fallen by the wayside, adopting video and computer graphics
...


Dave Wattercine

Michael A. Carter

Re: Cine folk

Post by Michael A. Carter » Mon Apr 28, 2003 11:13 am

Hi Dave,

Thank you for your reply. I have sent a EMail requesting info
and have included my address.
BTW, my web site has film footage of local sites made while
learning how to use my Weston light meter.
www.16mmoviemaking.com
It is rather confusing as yet, but look around under 'Field Work'
and 'Shooting' and 'Regular 8mm'
Two new films made with the Bolex P1 and Fomapan 100 have
arrived from Andec and will soon be transferred and parts
posted. It is just another castle home movie but used the
Camera's light meter for the first time instead of the Weston.
Perhaps I'll see you at a meeting some day/night.

Michael Carter

Michael Slowe

Re: Does anyone in IAC do film or have all gone to Video?

Post by Michael Slowe » Mon Apr 28, 2003 9:42 pm

"Michael Carter" <forums@theiac.org.uk> wrote:
I'd like to join a FILM club in the SW UK. I have been shooting a lot of
Regular
8mm Black & White and have 16mm negative Plus-X in the freezer for later,
after I can previsualize zones some.
Are there still clubs devoted to film making?
Sure, I have a video camera, too. I even have a workprinter to transfer
film
to video, however, it is film that I want to shoot and learn more about.

I subscribe to ACE.
Should I join IAC?

Michael Carter
I don't quite follow your point about film or video. There is no difference
as far as filmaking is concerned, although I grant you the editing process
is done differently on video now that we have digital equipment. I started
on a Bolex 8mm P1 as you apparently did. I went on to 16mm later and now
use video but over 40 years I see no difference in the way the shots are
framed, exposed, focussed etc. The requirements are the same and it is the
timeless truth to say once again that it is not the way you get your pictures
that counts but what you do with them. Welcome to the IAC and please make
and show your productions any way you think fit.

AN

Re: Does anyone in IAC do film or have all gone to Video?

Post by AN » Tue Apr 29, 2003 7:49 am

"Michael Slowe" <michael.slowe@btinternet.com> wrote:
I don't quite follow your point about film or video. There is no difference
as far as filmaking is concerned,
Oh dear oh dear Michael, you are overlooking the poor ol' animator, as most
folk do, in making that statement. The taking of a single frame for animation
is so completely different with film as compared with video. Alas, one cannot
do this 'single framing' on a consumer video camera.
For you documentary bods this makes no difference...you just press a button
and it's, "In the can!"
Albert..canned.

Michael Carter

Re: Does anyone in IAC do film or have all gone to Video?

Post by Michael Carter » Tue Apr 29, 2003 9:04 am

Albert,

Animation is what started me with film again. I used R8 single frame cameras
then 16mm ones and self processed pencil test strips, printed them and on
and on. Even some clay was used but mostly I liked pencil drawing animation.
My students liked cut outs.
16mm is within my reach, but 3 chip digital noninterlaced is not, and HDTV
has not even made it to the consumer level yet. Why purchase a 3 chip Pal
when HDTV 25/30 frame progressive is looming on the horizon which will make
the former out of date? So, my money goes on film.

These are good debate topics, but, I want to work with other film makers
who are using film.

Currently, I am studying the Zone System regarding movie making in Black
& White and especially push pull and N+or-1 for contact prints??????????????

Michael

AN

Re: Does anyone in IAC do film or have all gone to Video?

Post by AN » Tue Apr 29, 2003 3:38 pm

"Michael Carter" <mc007f0737@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
Albert,

Animation is what started me with film again.
I started 16mm animation in 1958 with a Bolex.
Now using video. So having done both, would I ever go back to 16mm? Yer
can't Onionskin nor Rotoscope with a 16mm Bolex,
but one can with video animation, so for me, the answer is a most definite
NO!
Albert...being positively negative!

Michael Slowe

Re: Does anyone in IAC do film or have all gone to Video?

Post by Michael Slowe » Wed Apr 30, 2003 3:13 pm

"AN" <AnimatioN@btopenworld.com> wrote:
"Michael Slowe" <michael.slowe@btinternet.com> wrote:

I don't quite follow your point about film or video. There is no difference
as far as filmaking is concerned,

Oh dear oh dear Michael, you are overlooking the poor ol' animator, as most
folk do, in making that statement. The taking of a single frame for animation
is so completely different with film as compared with video. Alas, one
cannot
do this 'single framing' on a consumer video camera.
For you documentary bods this makes no difference...you just press a button
and it's, "In the can!"
Albert..canned.
Sorry Albert, thoughtless of me. Always admired the patient animator nver
understood how they do it!

AN

Re: Does anyone in IAC do film or have all gone to Video?

Post by AN » Wed Apr 30, 2003 6:08 pm

"Michael Slowe" <michael.slowe@btinternet.com> wrote:
Always admired the patient animator never
understood how they do it!
Same as everyone else!!

Albert....no further comment.

Guest

Re: Does anyone in IAC do film or have all gone to Video?

Post by Guest » Thu May 01, 2003 12:13 pm

I could be opening flood gates here ...

But - in addition to the animation angle - what are the practical differences
between working on film and working on video ... so far as the end result
is concerned.

Do some shots work better in one medium or the other? Do xip pans work better
in one than the other?

We touched on the issues a few months back when talking about a device which
professionals buy to fit in front of their video lens to make it respond
more like film.

I believe, with Michael, that for most purposes the same "rules" of composition,
editing and so on apply to both.

Dave McSprocket

Michael Carter

Re: Does anyone in IAC do film or have all gone to Video?

Post by Michael Carter » Thu May 01, 2003 1:01 pm

The IAC packet arrived today and I think I'll join the club even though there
seems to be no or few film shooters in it. You see, I have been hanging out
on film makers web boards like:

http://www.8mm.filmshooting.com/scripts ... um.php?f=1

and

http://www.hostboard.com/cgi-bin/ultima ... orum&f=409

and some other more professional ones sometimes.

I aspire to the big screen; even though the projectors are big and noisy;
in a theater the projector is behind a booth and you can't hear it. So, I
shoot film to learn how to shoot film cause film is projected on the big
screen.

The rest of it IS the same or nearly so as you correctly say. That is the
part that I must learn. To that end I must get hooked up with others who
make movies, in whatever format, television, plays, videos.

The IAC packet is impressive and makes me want to join. Well done.

Those film makers are loners and don't have clubs. Not well done. Projectionists
don't seem to make films. Oh well.

It is all so ... disjointed. Perhaps the web will eventually get it all together.

So, if younz (Pittsburgh-eze) don't mind me going on about "film" and shooting
it, etc. I'll see you at the movies! (meetings)

Michael Carter

Michael Slowe

Re: Does anyone in IAC do film or have all gone to Video?

Post by Michael Slowe » Thu May 01, 2003 6:00 pm

"Michael Carter" <mc007f0737nospam@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
The IAC packet arrived today and I think I'll join the club even though
there
seems to be no or few film shooters in it. You see, I have been hanging
out
on film makers web boards like:

http://www.8mm.filmshooting.com/scripts ... um.php?f=1

and

http://www.hostboard.com/cgi-bin/ultima ... orum&f=409

and some other more professional ones sometimes.

I aspire to the big screen; even though the projectors are big and noisy;
in a theater the projector is behind a booth and you can't hear it. So,
I
shoot film to learn how to shoot film cause film is projected on the big
screen.

The rest of it IS the same or nearly so as you correctly say. That is the
part that I must learn. To that end I must get hooked up with others who
make movies, in whatever format, television, plays, videos.

The IAC packet is impressive and makes me want to join. Well done.

Those film makers are loners and don't have clubs. Not well done. Projectionists
don't seem to make films. Oh well.

It is all so ... disjointed. Perhaps the web will eventually get it all
together.

So, if younz (Pittsburgh-eze) don't mind me going on about "film" and shooting
it, etc. I'll see you at the movies! (meetings)

Michael Carter


Nice to have another Michael on board. Sorry to take issue with you again
so soon but modern video projectors showing digital tape can put up a picture
on the screen every bit as bright and sharp as film. I was lucky enough
to see a video production of mine shown in a cinema in Malta at last November's
Golden Knight Festival and it would have looked no better had it been on
16mm film. Now 35mm. is a different matter but the new Sony/Cine Alta High
Definition video format does look like 35mm. film and that is the future
just as soon as costs come down.

AN

Re: Does anyone in IAC do film or have all gone to Video?

Post by AN » Thu May 01, 2003 6:21 pm

"Michael Slowe" <michael.slowe@btinternet.com> wrote:
Nice to have another Michael on board.
Let's hope we don't get as much trouble with the new one as we do the old,
old one! :-)
Definition video format does look like 35mm. film and that is the future
Yeh, film is not the way for newcomers to go, unless you do it for the same
reason some nutters drive vintage cars around....
..nostalgia. But to get from A to B either in a car or in editing
A/B then video is the kiddy.
Albert...kidding?

Atta Chui

Film or Video

Post by Atta Chui » Thu May 01, 2003 11:41 pm

In response to the recent hit topic...

There are certainly differeces in shooting films and shooting videos. However,
the enjoyment of film making comes from many ingredients so film or video
should not be a deciding factor.

Oil painting and water colour painting are very different. both styles/techniques
can produce great pictures.

I learned a lot from the statement "Filming is painting with light". No doubt,
films have a more dynamic response to light, and I believe many of us, after
watching commercial films for so many years, have our eyes trained so that
film images mean "yeah this is like a film".

Script can make a lot of differeces. No matter how "Friends" are shot, it's
a sitcom. When you watch "The Bill" on TV, you won't mistaken it as a film.

For most of us who make films on video, however, one thing is true: if you
are not careful, you can make your pictures "very video-ish" and your audience
may be less engaged into your film... because we are all "Hollywoodified"!

Atta

Michael Carter

Re: Does anyone in IAC do film or have all gone to Video?

Post by Michael Carter » Fri May 02, 2003 10:25 am

In my case, film was the ONLY way to start. I / we wanted to make animations
using cut paper, clay, cells, and flip books. There was next to NO money,
but I wrote a grant request and got funding, using Regular 8mm. Cine-Color
125 was used with two 75W lamps. That wasn't too hot and was possible with
flea market desk lamps that cost $5 for two heads. The cameras often were
the same price. The films we made are in a shoe box here waiting for retransfer
using the WorkPrinter. Filming in single frame mode allowed us to shoot at
16 fps instead of a video 4 frames a second give or take some more. We did
manage to get a old tube video camera for transferrs to video for only $10
but the power box cost $100. The Goko Telecine cost $300 but by then I didn't
care, I was hooked. Then again, at the time I didn't even own a television
and not a VCD either. So, the film method was very cheap, easy, simple, and
highly educational! The video conversion led us into another department entirely.
Film opened the door. Video closed the bank.

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