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A forum for sharing views on the art of film, video and AV sequence making as well as on competitions, judging and festivals.
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Father Xmas

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Post by Father Xmas » Tue Dec 03, 2002 5:14 pm


Dave Watterson

"Message" movies

Post by Dave Watterson » Wed Dec 04, 2002 1:36 pm

I support the move toward thoughtful moviemaking ... no matter what the style
of movie. A few hours of thought is worth any number of hours shooting and
editing.

Where I sometimes have a problem is with movies that want me to share the
film maker's beliefs. Movies which promote a special cause can be good but
more often are not. They tend to be plodding and humourless. To me "serious"
means a subject worth thinking about, not the manner in which it must be
presented. I am quite happy to have funny films about death or disaster ...
IF they make me think.

Am I alone in such foolishness?

Dave McWorld-Weary

Brian Hazelden

Re: "Message" movies

Post by Brian Hazelden » Wed Dec 04, 2002 7:23 pm

Hi Muck Weary,

Yes, totally wrong on all counts!

The key to successful movies is :-

entertainment!

entertainment!

entertainment!

Ask any judge ..........

Brian Hazelden

"Dave Watterson" <webmaster@theiac.org.uk> wrote:
I support the move toward thoughtful moviemaking ... no matter what the
style
of movie. A few hours of thought is worth any number of hours shooting
and
editing.

Where I sometimes have a problem is with movies that want me to share the
film maker's beliefs. Movies which promote a special cause can be good
but
more often are not. They tend to be plodding and humourless. To me "serious"
means a subject worth thinking about, not the manner in which it must be
presented. I am quite happy to have funny films about death or disaster
...
IF they make me think.

Am I alone in such foolishness?

Dave McWorld-Weary

Ken Wilson

Re: "Message" movies

Post by Ken Wilson » Fri Dec 06, 2002 12:15 am

"Brian Hazelden" <brian_hazelden@lineone.net> wrote:
Hi Muck Weary,

Yes, totally wrong on all counts!

The key to successful movies is :-

entertainment!

entertainment!

entertainment!

Ask any judge ..........

Brian Hazelden
Ah yes, but a thoughtful film CAN ALSO be entertaining.
Entertainment comes in all forms. A message or a deeper meaning
gets the old grey matter working. I go to the cinema and see
all the Bond movies and "super hero" films like Spiderman
(and Batman and Superman from the past) but these are NOT
the films I buy for repeated viewing. Candy floss films are
superficial. Entertaining....yes! But no good for a good night
in, at the movies. Incidentally, just bought the 4 disc set
of Lord of the Rings; FANTASTIC. Enjoyed the film at the cinema
too, but the DVD has loads of extras. A film-makers dream.

What about suspense/ thriller films? My favourites.
I always liked Hitchcock films. Always known as the master of
suspense, though he did make a few duff ones too.

Here`s a little tip about building suspense. Read it somewhere.
Don`t tell anyone though.

WARNING: SECRET do not read the rest unless you want to be
enlightened.


Yes, it`s true, there is a structure, a formulae if you like
for building on expectations to increase anticipation for getting
the audience all on edge.


WARNING: SECRET REVEALED BELOW.









The secret of suspense is simple.








































Ken.
"Dave Watterson" <webmaster@theiac.org.uk> wrote:

I support the move toward thoughtful moviemaking ... no matter what the
style
of movie. A few hours of thought is worth any number of hours shooting
and
editing.

Where I sometimes have a problem is with movies that want me to share the
film maker's beliefs. Movies which promote a special cause can be good
but
more often are not. They tend to be plodding and humourless. To me "serious"
means a subject worth thinking about, not the manner in which it must be
presented. I am quite happy to have funny films about death or disaster
...
IF they make me think.

Am I alone in such foolishness?

Dave McWorld-Weary

Ned Cordery

Re: "Message" movies

Post by Ned Cordery » Fri Dec 06, 2002 5:29 pm

"Ken Wilson" <@filmlabnorth.free-online.co.uk> wrote:
"Brian Hazelden" <brian_hazelden@lineone.net> wrote:

The key to successful movies is :-

entertainment!
I agree, but what entertains you may not entertain me!
Ask any judge ..........
Hmmm, on the basis of past discussions judges would be the last people to
ask.

Ah yes, but a thoughtful film CAN ALSO be entertaining.
Entertainment comes in all forms. A message or a deeper meaning
gets the old grey matter working. I go to the cinema and see
all the Bond movies and "super hero" films like Spiderman
(and Batman and Superman from the past) but these are NOT
the films I buy for repeated viewing. Candy floss films are
superficial. Entertaining....yes! But no good for a good night
in, at the movies. Incidentally, just bought the 4 disc set
of Lord of the Rings; FANTASTIC. Enjoyed the film at the cinema
too, but the DVD has loads of extras. A film-makers dream.
I categorise films into two broad divisions, films and no-brain films. Films
are those that aim for something more than superficial entertainment, and
I want to see more than once if they are four star quality. But there are
one star films that I am happy to pass on. The same for no-brainers. For
example a four star film in my book is Lawrence of Arabia, multilayered,
interesting, viewable; take the same actor (Peter O'Toole) in a four star
no-brainer, "My favorite year". I own a DVD of LoA and have fond memories
of MFY. The Lord of the Rings is a four star no-brainer in my book, I have
no need to own a copy although I enjoyed it at the cinema. This is not a
put down, just a statement about the difficulty of defining entertainment
in film. As Willianm Goldman said of Hollywood and its inability to make
every film a winner "Nobody knows anything."
"Dave Watterson" <webmaster@theiac.org.uk> wrote:

I support the move toward thoughtful moviemaking ... no matter what the
style
of movie. A few hours of thought is worth any number of hours shooting
and
editing.

Where I sometimes have a problem is with movies that want me to share
the
film maker's beliefs. Movies which promote a special cause can be good
but
more often are not. They tend to be plodding and humourless. To me "serious"
means a subject worth thinking about, not the manner in which it must
be
presented. I am quite happy to have funny films about death or disaster
...
IF they make me think.

Am I alone in such foolishness?

Dave McWorld-Weary
No, you are not alone. But I don't think the IAC is where you will see them.
Take a look at the "Shooting people" web site and there are a number of festivals
and people asking for help with films that will fall into this category.
We have two non-commercial productions nearing completion and have decided
not enter the IAC Competition as they categorise film makers and all the
awards go to "amateurs" and the open class offers two awards. However, next
year I may be an amateur as I have decided to retire in the new year!

Ned Cordery

AN

Re: "Message" movies

Post by AN » Fri Dec 06, 2002 7:46 pm

"Ned Cordery" <goslands@infowest.com> wrote:
"Ken Wilson" <@filmlabnorth.free-online.co.uk> wrote:
"Brian Hazelden" <brian_hazelden@lineone.net> wrote:

The key to successful movies is :-
entertainment!

I agree, but what entertains you may not entertain me!
Comedy is the best bet to entertain everyone. Take last years
IAC comedy award, 'Timeline.' That made me laugh and I betcha it would have
made Ned laugh too, hence entertains allcomers.
Ask any judge ..........
Hmmm, on the basis of past discussions judges would be the last >people
to ask.
But they do like to be entertained. If you make a serious film
then some of em will not like it. But make a comedy and they all
will.
Candy floss films are
superficial. Entertaining....yes! But no good for a good night
in, at the movies.
My nights in are spent viewing the 500+ films I have on VHS.
Trouble is, I do like candy floss, altho it's bad for my teeth (and brain!).
This is not a
put down, just a statement about the difficulty of defining entertainment
in film.
But comedy is the king.....bet everyone on this group, including you Ned?,
would happily see the Ealing comedies over and over.
The Boulting bros knew how to entertain ALL.
(I watch,"The Man in the White Suit" about 3 times a year. Ah,
that candy floss, "Very tasty, very sweet.")

Albert...still laughing.

Ned Cordery

Re: "Message" movies

Post by Ned Cordery » Sat Dec 07, 2002 12:39 am

"AN" <AnimatioN@btopenworld.com> wrote:
Comedy is the best bet to entertain everyone. Take last years
IAC comedy award, 'Timeline.' That made me laugh and I betcha it would
have
made Ned laugh too, hence entertains allcomers.

My nights in are spent viewing the 500+ films I have on VHS.
Trouble is, I do like candy floss, altho it's bad for my teeth (and brain!).

But comedy is the king.....bet everyone on this group, including you Ned?,
would happily see the Ealing comedies over and over.
The Boulting bros knew how to entertain ALL.
(I watch,"The Man in the White Suit" about 3 times a year. Ah,
that candy floss, "Very tasty, very sweet.")

Albert...still laughing.
Whilst I share Albert's enthusiasm for the Ealing and Boulting Brother comedies
this is a product of our age and shared cultural experience. Comedy is not
universal and a viewing of what the present generation see as funny makes
me reach for the off button, eg anything with Jim Carrey and the truly awful
Austin Powers films. The "Carry On" films have not stood the test of time
well and I believe that comedy is more subject to fashion than drama or documentary.
You would need to know the ages of the judges before submitting a comedy
to any film festival.

Ned Cordery

AN

Re: "Message" movies

Post by AN » Sat Dec 07, 2002 9:27 am

"Ned Cordery" <goslands@infowest.com> wrote:
Whilst I share Albert's enthusiasm for the Ealing and Boulting >Brother
comedies
this is a product of our age and shared cultural experience. >Comedy is
not universal
Very true....I wonder how Muslims make each other laugh? I'm sure I couldn't
make em laugh for toffee nuts. (Wot are toffee nuts anyway?)
and a viewing of what the present generation see as funny makes
me reach for the off button,
You must be getting old Ned, for I too cannot get to that best of inventions
since sliced bread. (the off button) quick enuf!
The "Carry On" films have not stood the test of time well
They were far too shallow to do that. 'Clever' comedy will stand the test
of time as Ealing demonstrates to this day.

Albert...."Changing at Ealing broadway."

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