Blankety blank!

A forum for sharing views on the art of film, video and AV sequence making as well as on competitions, judging and festivals.
AN

Blankety blank!

Post by AN » Mon Nov 11, 2002 1:03 pm

Last week I went to CEMRIAC festival with a 60 second film for
the competition.
Imagine how red my face was, when the projectionist asked if I was in the
audience and that my miniDV tape was completely BLANK!

I muttered some poor excuse about having a brain storm and labelling a new
tape in error instead of the correct one before sending it, or maybe my tape
had come near to a powerfull magnet!

I have just this morning tried out the blank tape entry and to my amazement
it's perfect!!
The 60 second film is there in all it's glory :-)

So what happened??.... Maybe when I played back my tape at home as a final
check before sending it, overlooked to rewind it to the beginning and the
projectionist took it from the blank area after the film??

The lesson here is for all projectionist to hit the 'rewind' button before
playing tapes just in case!

Anyone else had this blank experience?

Albert...just blank.

malcolm whiteley

Re: Blankety blank!

Post by malcolm whiteley » Mon Nov 11, 2002 8:12 pm

My minds gone a blank on what I was going to say!!!!
Mal (where was I)

AN

Re: Blankety blank!

Post by AN » Mon Nov 11, 2002 8:24 pm

"malcolm whiteley" <malcolmwhiteley@hotmail.com> wrote:
My minds gone a blank on what I was going to say!!!!
Perhaps you were going to talk to us about blanks,
but we cannot blank on it.

Ol chineese he wisely say,
"If mind go blank, then nothing to worry about all day!"
Mal (where was I)
Probably in another English town like Chester etc busy making
another prize winner?

Albert.....who seldom knows where he is, coming OR going!

Dave Watterson

Re: Blankety blank!

Post by Dave Watterson » Mon Nov 11, 2002 11:26 pm

Giving a talk to Surrey Borders Club I included a movie quiz, one of the answers
involving a musical section where the audience had to know or guess the words.
All went well before the interval when I was posing the questions.

Afterward the break when giving the answers ... that section of tape - and
only that section - was missing its soundtrack. (Have you heard me trying
to sing?!?!?!?!)


Dave McBlush

Ken Wilson

Re: Blankety blank!

Post by Ken Wilson » Tue Nov 12, 2002 12:03 am

"AN" <AnimatioN@btopenworld.com> wrote:
Last week I went to CEMRIAC festival with a 60 second film for
the competition.
Imagine how red my face was, when the projectionist asked if I was in the
audience and that my miniDV tape was completely BLANK!
(Ken`s nightmare..da,da,da,da!)
I may have mentioned that I am on Digital 8. Some competitions
including our own recent NERIAC like S-VHS or mini DV, so I
borrowed a mini DV deck for a couple of hours and transferred
5 films. No time to try them out apart from a quick random
check before entry into competition. Heart was a bit in mouth
as we watched the sunday show (to a theme) in case a situation
similar to Alberts happened. All was well but it`s not an ideal
way to enjoy the show. ....Sorry, it wasn`t a funny story! Ken

AN

Re: Blankety blank!

Post by AN » Tue Nov 12, 2002 9:44 am

"Ken Wilson" <@filmlabnorth.free-online.co.uk> wrote:
I may have mentioned that I am on Digital 8. Some competitions
including our own recent NERIAC like S-VHS or mini DV, so I
borrowed a mini DV deck for a couple of hours and transferred
5 films.
I had a reply from a projectionist on iac-general(private) bemoaning how
entrants send in tapes in all sorts of states.
Some are not rewound, some not 'cued up' as he puts it....all
in different states which doesn't help the projectionist at all.

SO, do you all use Academy leaders on your films or home made
count down numbers or don't you have anything?

This starting of films and cueing up seems to be in a mess,
with many(most?) film makers not really knowing what a projectionist requires
of you.

Even if the IAC knows the requirements, this differs from
Cotswold/Guernsey and all the rest. We need an international
world standard like the Academy leader, but this entails a long wait each
time, so what should be done?

Albert....projecting more trouble.

Dave Watterson

Leaders

Post by Dave Watterson » Wed Nov 13, 2002 1:14 pm

Coming from the world of 35mm and 16mm I am used to traditional countdown
leaders:

flash frame of pretty girl (ostensibly a lab colour test)
flash frame of "HEAD"
countdown white letters on black 10 to 3 (beep on 3)
black to picture start

The relative flash of each number - usually 3 frames each - could be seen
easily on a film projector.

In video I have yet to see anyone use the colour bars some people place at
the start of a tape. Besides any adjusting of the monitor or projector ought
to be done before you come to the show.

The Premiere clock-wipe count down is over-fussy for my taste.

I rather like the broadcast-style 15 second countdown on what looks like
a segment of a stop watch.

My preference is for 5 second black at most between start of tape and picture
- or between items on a compilation tape. Any operator who cannot pause
in a 5 second break is not going to have the nouse to present count-downs
etc properly. For an audience 5 seconds is a long gap - especially if they
have mentally switched off during the credits of the preceding item.

The bottom line is that for ANY public show the operator should always check
every tape and line it up herself/himself - just as experienced cine projectionists
used to do ... you never knew when someone had cut off a damaged section
of leader and left your countdown running from 9 directly to 2.

Dave McTimex

AN

Re: Leaders

Post by AN » Wed Nov 13, 2002 3:40 pm

"Dave Watterson" <webmaster@theiac.org.uk> wrote:
In video I have yet to see anyone use the colour bars some people place
at
the start of a tape.
The Hiroshima film festival requests 40 secs of colour bars
on ALL entries. Just goes to show what a mess this leader
business has got into.
The Premiere clock-wipe count down is over-fussy for my taste.
But at least it is based on the std Academy leader, and is freely
available.....in the film days one had to BUY the academy leader.
My preference is for 5 second black at most between start of tape and picture
That is the one of the problems...every one has their own preference regarding
leaders.
This only goes to ensure that the poor ol projectionist is continually presented
will all types of 'preferential' leaders instead of an agreed standard.

So a non std long length of black may confuse him into thinking that the
film has not been rewound for example. Many projectionists are not given
the opportunity to pre view so one single standard of leader would be a blessing
for him, and he would immediately know whereabouts at the start he was, even
if the tape had not been fully rewound.

I think the IAC should adopt the Premier Academy leader as the required standard
for leaders on all tape, as I would wager that the majority of serious NLE'ers
who enter competitions use Premier (sorry Ned!)
Dave McTimex
Albert.....counted out.

Ned Cordery

Re: Leaders

Post by Ned Cordery » Wed Nov 13, 2002 6:01 pm

"AN" <AnimatioN@btopenworld.com> wrote:
for leaders on all tape, as I would wager that the majority of serious NLE'ers
who enter competitions use Premier (sorry Ned!)

Dave McTimex

Albert.....counted out.
1. There is a standard Academy leader built into FCP when printing to tape
so no problem there.

2. Am I the only non-Premier user on this board and the IAC in general? I
don't think so as I seem to remember that Brian H uses Speed Razor and there
are now a number of affordable programs with a better tool set than Premier.

3. I just took a look at the IAC competition rules and see that the semi-professional
is eligible for the Open category and not the amateur category. It will be
interesting to see how people categorise themselves, I can think of some
high profile names that fall into the semi-pro category,

Ned Cordery

Michael Slowe

Re: Leaders

Post by Michael Slowe » Wed Nov 13, 2002 6:56 pm

"Ned Cordery" <goslands@infowest.com> wrote:
"AN" <AnimatioN@btopenworld.com> wrote:
for leaders on all tape, as I would wager that the majority of serious
NLE'ers
who enter competitions use Premier (sorry Ned!)

Dave McTimex

Albert.....counted out.

1. There is a standard Academy leader built into FCP when printing to tape
so no problem there.

2. Am I the only non-Premier user on this board and the IAC in general?
I
don't think so as I seem to remember that Brian H uses Speed Razor and there
are now a number of affordable programs with a better tool set than Premier.

3. I just took a look at the IAC competition rules and see that the semi-professional
is eligible for the Open category and not the amateur category. It will
be
interesting to see how people categorise themselves, I can think of some
high profile names that fall into the semi-pro category,

Ned Cordery
No you are not alone in avoiding Adobe Premier, I edit on Media 100, the
fabulous American made system which replicates exactly how we edited film
in the good (?) old days.
As to Leaders for tape programmes I lay either 5, or preferably 10 seconds
of black and MARK the mini DV tape case (inner and outer) accordingly. The
trouble with academy (or similar) leaders is that they always get projected
which is an awful way to start a film.

Ken Wilson

Re: Leaders

Post by Ken Wilson » Thu Nov 14, 2002 12:00 am

"Dave Watterson" <webmaster@theiac.org.uk> wrote:
Coming from the world of 35mm and 16mm I am used to traditional countdown
leaders:

flash frame of pretty girl (ostensibly a lab colour test)
flash frame of "HEAD"
countdown white letters on black 10 to 3 (beep on 3)
black to picture start
Dave is right.
As I work in a 16mm film processing lab, I agree with the above.
When we sync up sound, it`s always "plop on 3" (although this
means that this is when it appears on screen as mechanically
the sound neg is pulled forward by 26 frames for printing.)
The BBC seemed to have their own "plop on 4" policy.
Therefore, it seems strange that in Premiere, we have a "Plop on 2" situation.
Where did this originate?
I always like to have some black at the start of a tape (S-VHS)
prior to the countdown, as many of these tapes seem to have glitches on them.
Seemingly NOT the case with Digital 8 or mini
DV. Perhaps this is the recording method as Hi-8 tapes also
suffered with the odd ripple and these are the same tapes I now
use for Digital 8.
Anyone thought of cutting countdown leaders to music? Could be
a winner at the next festival. Ken.

AN

Re: Leaders

Post by AN » Thu Nov 14, 2002 11:12 am

"Michael Slowe" <michael.slowe@btinternet.com> wrote:

AN

Re: Leaders

Post by AN » Thu Nov 14, 2002 11:18 am

"Ken Wilson" <@filmlabnorth.free-online.co.uk> wrote:
Anyone thought of cutting countdown leaders to music? Could be
a winner at the next festival. Ken.
Damn, damn, damn, damn!!
I was going to do something on these lines, entitled,
"Take me to your Leader!" (the count down numbers stop at one point and the
larks begin!)
Now it's no longer original for me as you have suggested
something similar, so I have to start again. :-(
...now lets see, that End title was at the beginning of one film so that's
out too. :-((

Albert...thinking aloud.

Dave Watterson

Re: Leaders

Post by Dave Watterson » Thu Nov 14, 2002 4:27 pm

Lots of people - including the new IAC Chairman - use Casablanca. Does that
have an academy style countdown facility?

Who might coordinate a campaign to standardise video leaders - at least for
amateur work? IAC could take a lead in the UK, UNICA though nominally an
international organisation is strongest in Europe. The amateur scene in
the USA seems fragmented and I have no idea what it is like in Japan. Without
the USA and Japan on board can any multi-national endeavour succeed?

I have cherished a dream for some years of making an animation based on the
colour bars - a sort of homage to "La Linea" (?spelling)a classic series
of animations using a single black line as its star. Perhaps some of the
wizards like Albert, Garth Hope, Laurie Calvert etc.could do something on
those lines.

Dave (McBoing-Boing)

AN

Re: Leaders

Post by AN » Fri Nov 15, 2002 3:46 pm

"Dave Watterson" <webmaster@theiac.org.uk> wrote:
I have cherished a dream for some years of making an
animation based on the colour bars
If you do make this film Dave, are you going to call it,
"Apertheid?" :-)

(Isn't that a peculiar word to spell? Couldn't find it in my
Dictionary)

Albert.....spellbound.

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