Some thoughts for judges

A forum for sharing views on the art of film, video and AV sequence making as well as on competitions, judging and festivals.
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Ned Cordery

Some thoughts for judges

Post by Ned Cordery » Wed Oct 09, 2002 10:42 pm

Having re-entered the amateur competition/festival circuit after a great many
years and having now read a number of judges comments some thoughts for judges
to ponder:

1. Please believe that everything you see is intended, I can accept that
you don't like what you see but please don't write a piece explaining a jump
cut/crossing the line/etc and how it shouldn't be used, if its in there we
meant it to be.

2. Please view modern commercial films/TV/ads across a wide spectrum of genres
and styles so modern camera and editing styles do not come as too much of
a surprise. Years ago John Cassevetes was cutting in the middle of a sentence
or musical phrase, there is very little that is new, please say so if you
don't like it but don't try and apply "rules" of editing or shooting.

3. Linear chronology is not (and never has been) an essential part of film
- see Pulp Fiction for the most disjointed chronology imaginable, yet, if
you pay attention, it is not difficult to follow.

4. I can accept a judge who says "This doesn't work for me because....."
I have a hard time with "You should pay more attention to......."

5. Let your personality come through, we loved the judge who wrote "awsome"
and respect the judge who said that for him the "program needed more than
judicious cutting, rather the attention of a meat ax to get it to an acceptable
length"

Just some thoughts - what do you think?-

re: sheltering in the Central Line (AN) we had a Morrison Shelter, a sort
of steel topped table as we lived on a tram line and sheltering beneath the
trams was discouraged. That's South of the River for you!

Ned Cordery

Michael Slowe

Re: Some thoughts for judges

Post by Michael Slowe » Thu Oct 10, 2002 2:17 pm

"Ned Cordery" <goslands@infowest.com> wrote:
Having re-entered the amateur competition/festival circuit after a great
many
years and having now read a number of judges comments some thoughts for
judges
to ponder:

1. Please believe that everything you see is intended, I can accept that
Are we the only three people using this site? For heavens sake how many IAC
members are there? I quite agree with what you say nabout judges comments
although you will find, human nature being what it is, that the comments
only really annoy when they are critical! Actually anyone who has been making
films for some time and has also been a judge, knows the strengths and weaknesses
of his film without being told. Why , we might be asked, can't we eliminate
the weaknesses before sibmitting them to competitions? It's a question I
have often asked myself but it's often a case of getting hung up over a scene
or sequence that may be a favourite and being unwilling (or unable) to alter
it. I agree that judges do get involved in nit picking details rather than
considering the piece as a whole and letting the over all "feel and atmosphere"
tell them whether it works or not.
Two other thoughts. Dave Watterson cannot retire, and if he does he must
judge every competition, and I am afraid of Albert too.
you don't like what you see but please don't write a piece explaining a
jump
cut/crossing the line/etc and how it shouldn't be used, if its in there
we
meant it to be.

2. Please view modern commercial films/TV/ads across a wide spectrum of
genres
and styles so modern camera and editing styles do not come as too much of
a surprise. Years ago John Cassevetes was cutting in the middle of a sentence
or musical phrase, there is very little that is new, please say so if you
don't like it but don't try and apply "rules" of editing or shooting.

3. Linear chronology is not (and never has been) an essential part of film
- see Pulp Fiction for the most disjointed chronology imaginable, yet, if
you pay attention, it is not difficult to follow.

4. I can accept a judge who says "This doesn't work for me because....."
I have a hard time with "You should pay more attention to......."

5. Let your personality come through, we loved the judge who wrote "awsome"
and respect the judge who said that for him the "program needed more than
judicious cutting, rather the attention of a meat ax to get it to an acceptable
length"

Just some thoughts - what do you think?-

re: sheltering in the Central Line (AN) we had a Morrison Shelter, a sort
of steel topped table as we lived on a tram line and sheltering beneath
the
trams was discouraged. That's South of the River for you!

Ned Cordery

Ned Cordery

Re: Some thoughts for judges

Post by Ned Cordery » Thu Oct 10, 2002 2:41 pm

"Michael Slowe" <michael.slowe@btinternet.com> wrote:
Are we the only three people using this site?
Sadly the answer is "yes". But please spread the word. I will leave it to
others to explain the history of how we got here - other than to thank Dave
for making it possible. We often discuss aspects of film making and films
that should be on the iac-general site but that seems to have died a death.
Whilst I understand the need for answers to the many technical questions
we all have and the iac-nle does a very good job the important side of film
making is the joy of writing, planning, production, solving aesthetic problems
and generally being creative and having fun. Sharing personal views about
films and what makes them good, bad or indifferent. All seen from the aspect
of the film maker working for fun rather than reward.
Two other thoughts. Dave Watterson cannot retire, and if he does he must
judge every competition,
Here, here.
and I am afraid of Albert too.
We all are.

Ned Cordery

AN

Re: Some thoughts for judges

Post by AN » Thu Oct 10, 2002 3:55 pm

The Berlin Interfilm Short Film Fest starts at the beginning of November.
Now try and guess how many entries they had? (Short film has max run time
of 20 minutes BTW.)

Here's a thought for ALL judges in UK.... they had 2,700 entries
(two thousand seven hundred)!!
Just imagine trying to view that lot and short listing them. Over 300 films
are to be shown. OK, how do I know all this? Well I entered. Was I short
listed? No.
Are we the only three people using this site?
You blokes can make films but none of yer can count! :-)

The regulars are Ned, Michael, Mal, Dave, sometimes Brian and Ken and yes,
me the frightener! I make that 7.....unlucky for some!
and I am afraid of Albert too.

We all are.
Me too.

Albert....putting on the frighteners.

malcolm whiteley

Re: Some thoughts for judges

Post by malcolm whiteley » Thu Oct 10, 2002 10:15 pm

"making is the joy of writing, planning, production, solving aesthetic problems
and generally being creative and having fun. Sharing personal views about
films and what makes them good, bad or indifferent. All seen from the aspect
of the film maker working for fun rather than reward."
Well put and so very very true. I just wish I could spend more time on my
films, but when I do get a chance to put something together I take a dose
of Marmite and set too with a real buzz.
Mal: (riding high)

Ken Wilson

Re: Some thoughts for judges

Post by Ken Wilson » Thu Oct 10, 2002 11:03 pm

"Ned Cordery" <goslands@infowest.com> wrote:
1. Please believe that everything you see is intended, I can accept that
you don't like what you see but please don't write a piece explaining a
jump
cut/crossing the line/etc and how it shouldn't be used, if its in there
we
meant it to be.
How absolutely accurate and on the nose!
So many times at the (professional) cinema, (for those in the IAC who still
go,) have I seen, crossing the line, (what we would call) jump cuts etc;
but we must assume all are intended.
Therefore, amateurs who have made many films over many years;
(my tally to date is now 56,)should also be given the benefit of the doubt
that a particular shot WAS intended.I recently recieved comments, mostly
very good, from a competition, but one remark concerned " burned out shots"
when filming near doors and windows!Perhaps I could re-position actors to
avoid this. Actually, I like natural light and many of my films have INTENTIONAL
shots like this. Look at "Pale Rider" as one example.
2. Please view modern commercial films/TV/ads across a wide spectrum of
genres
and styles so modern camera and editing styles do not come as too much of
a surprise.
This is all so true. Although I personally don`t like the modern
trend, now slightly out of fashion, for rapid cutting and camera movements,
so that even dialogue scenes are cutting every two seconds, swooping and
rotating so that we all get dizzy.
P.S. Thanks Albert for noticing me. I thought that the "3" meant that I was
being overlooked.
I only get access to this site 2 weeks out of 4 when on the night shift at
work. Ken.

AN

Re: Some thoughts for judges

Post by AN » Fri Oct 11, 2002 7:46 am

"Ken Wilson" <@filmlabnorth.free-online.co.uk> wrote:
but one remark concerned " burned out shots" when filming near >doors and
windows!Perhaps I could re-position actors to avoid >this. Actually, I like
natural light and many of my films have >INTENTIONAL shots like this

Maybe we all ought to put footnotes on the competition entry forms, pointing
out that the out of focus/blurred/over exposured shot at so and so place
in the film was intentional.
But then the judges would ask, "Why do that?"

It reminds me of one of my images on my web site (which you have all seen
of course?) It's entitled "Over exposed", and is an overexposed photo of
a rose.
But how many who have seen this shot notice the REAL point to it?
Namely that part of the overexposed image is even more over exposed and is
burnt out to WHITE!
We may try to give some meaning to the unusual, by over exposing/blurring
etc etc but the risk we take in doing this is that no one will understand
what we are about.

Albert.....taking risks.

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