YOUR BIAFF 2013 RESULTS

A forum for sharing views on the art of film, video and AV sequence making as well as on competitions, judging and festivals.
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John Roberts
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Re: YOUR BIAFF 2013 RESULTS

Post by John Roberts »

I have to strongly disagree, though this is just my opinion and not aimed at any particular judge/club/competition - but I've found in my (very limited) experience that more than a few judges at 'grass roots'/club level to be the most subjective and dismissive of all. I also don't believe that there is such a thing as an 'impartial region' because even though one region may judge a selection of movies from outside their own, they will most likely also have films from their own region (and indeed their own club) entered into the competition, so that could potentially open the doors for accusations of political voting. I've seen it done at club level so why not on a regional or national level as well?

In fact, I've tended to find that feedback for not only mine but other colleagues films improves as the status of the competition increases. Perhaps because there is more accountability? I've heard heart-breaking dismissive comments from some club judges over many years, do we really need our films and young (and older) film-makers subjected to this?

Grass roots assessing = one big mass fall-out :lol:

But, that's just my opinion, and I've also heard some fabulous 'club competition' judges too. I don't think it's a solution to the 'problem' however, it will just be a different way of disagreeing with the results!

(Now runs away and hides...)
Geoff Addis
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Re: YOUR BIAFF 2013 RESULTS

Post by Geoff Addis »

Same Hymn Sheet, different choruses: it seems to me that every year we get the same or similar moans and groans following the adjudication.

Its interesting to note that the Southern Photographic Federation marks photos out of 10 points: up to 1.5 for Technical Quality, 3-5 for content and technical skill and 5.5-6 for communication and expression of a message. I wonder how our videos would fare if judged in a similar manner.

Geoff
Ken Wilson
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Re: YOUR BIAFF 2013 RESULTS

Post by Ken Wilson »

Oh dear. here we go again! Judging, our regular moan...and something which we still don`t have sorted out.
Our film "BOOKENDS" got the "regular" 3 stars that most of them seem to get nowadays. Unlike in past years, I think this is right this time as it is just an ok film and goes down fairly well at the various clubs where we have screened it. It was shot quickly in a day, plus a few pick up shots on a second day and was a simple 2 person comedy, though previous ones have also been made this way and have faired better. But you never know for sure what will work and what will not.

The judges comments though were probably funnier than the film and came from people who I had never heard of and were generic comments selected from the "What can we say bin" by tired judges. The written sheet even said "After a long day, some light relief..." so I know they were clearly at their wits end by then...L-O-N-G days film judging, something I have frequently complained about on this forum and in my FVM articles and no-one can or will do anything about it. It obviously does have some bearing on results at times. But as I say, my award for 2013 is where I would have expected it to be and so is fair.

On the following forum comment:
Surely the truth is we need both types of judges. People who know nothing about the mechanics of film best reflect most people in the world and therefore are, in my opinion, best placed to judge how effective the film is - what emotions it stirs, how informative it is, how entertaining it is. They are also able to give good feedback about what would make the film better.
However, film-making judges are more likely to be able to identify specific areas for improvement - not just technical (audio quality, lighting, colour matching etc) but also artistic (composition, use of audio etc). I'm not sure it is possible to "train" someone to cover all these aspects, but it is certainly possible to give guidance


I totally agree. As a judge and ALSO a film maker, cinema goer and reader of all things film, I think I do see things from different points of view and going by the remarks from film makers after recent judging sessions we have done, our suggestions as film MAKERS seem to have been quite helpful.
Jill Lampert
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Re: YOUR BIAFF 2013 RESULTS

Post by Jill Lampert »

It has been suggested that the best judges of our films would be club members.

Last night we had a small competition at our club. There were 5 films from five different clubs. None made by our own members. The members of my club were the judges. We were instructed to rate the films 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th and 5th. What was interesting was the diversity of opinion.

There were 17 member judges.

Only six of them placed the winning film 1st. Two of the judges didn’t put the winning film in their top 3. Each of the five films was placed 1st by at least two judges.

Although there was a clear winner, it couldn’t be said that there was a consensus about which was the best film. The majority of the club members did not think the winning film was the best film.

There was a similar picture at the bottom end. Only 7 people actually ranked it 5th. Two thought it was the best film in the competition.

I don’t know what to make of this. Is this an exceptionally wide spread of opinion? Or is this what we should expect at any club? Is it what we should expect in any pool of judges?

Jill
col lamb
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Re: YOUR BIAFF 2013 RESULTS

Post by col lamb »

OK so a few contentious comments have not quite elicited the response that I expected but it did reveal a few interesting points.

Overall in most cases those who entered movies into BIAFF this year are more or less OK with the results.

A slight preference exists for judges to be active movie makers.

One thing is for sure, there is no difinitive "right" way to judge movies, but there have been efforts to improve the judging process.

My IAC region recently judged a series of movies for another region and the watching process took 12 hours..........sorry but three people watching that many movies in one day cannot possibly result in a correct result. I believe that a similar process exists in judging for BIAFF

We have just had a regional IAC competition where we had 18 movies entered, the movies were sent down South for a well known individual to judge them, what came back was a Winner, a second Highly Commended and a third Commended movie.

Incidentally the critique was a very pleasant one liner for each movie, hardly an analytical response

On the night after viewing all the movies the audience vote was for the Commended movie as their choice and 75% voted for this movie.

So who got it right........the single judge or the audience?

On another tack, I have watched quite a few of the movies listed on our web site and generally in my opinion a 2* movie is a 2* movie, some 3* are 2* and others are 4* or better, some 4* are 2* or 3* some are diamond, in fact one diamond is only a 2*, othere are 3* or 4*.

To be specific, two movies by Bob Lorrimer, The Bear Behind and The Drill both won 4*, now if you just have a look at both of these and compare them to John's "Thinking Time", which got a diamond and how would you rate them.

To me both of Bob's movies are at least as good as, if not better than John's yet they received far less allocade, but that is my opinion for what it is worth.
Col Lamb
Preston, Lancashire.
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tom hardwick
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Re: YOUR BIAFF 2013 RESULTS

Post by tom hardwick »

My next Positive Image bullet-points 'how to win film competitions'. Which boils down to 'how to win over judges'. You want to make good films? That's another matter entirely.
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Willy
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Re: YOUR BIAFF 2013 RESULTS

Post by Willy »

One of my friends is a bit disappointed. Not about the number of stars he has got but about one line in the judges' comments. It says: "... Yet all this has been shot in 4:3 and has had the picture quality reduced by being masked to 16:9..."

My friend, however, has filmed everything in 16:9.

But I myself, understand the judges. I think that part of the image quality in his film is not perfect. Only the conclusion of the judging panel is not right. This may happen.

Anyway the tone in the judges' comments is very positive and encouraging.
Willy Van der Linden
tom hardwick
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Re: YOUR BIAFF 2013 RESULTS

Post by tom hardwick »

Are you sure about that Willy? If we're thinking about the same film then I'm pretty sure it was shot on a 4:3 three CCD camera that was switched into its 16:9 mode. This does indeed mean it was shot in 16:9, but with a resolution hit that leaves us with 720 x 432, not a lot better than 405 b & w TV when you come to think of it.

So are my conclusions incorrect? I'm happy to be put right because l make my judgements after a lot of deliberation.

tom.
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TimStannard
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Re: YOUR BIAFF 2013 RESULTS

Post by TimStannard »

col lamb wrote: To be specific, two movies by Bob Lorrimer, The Bear Behind and The Drill both won 4*, now if you just have a look at both of these and compare them to John's "Thinking Time", which got a diamond and how would you rate them.

To me both of Bob's movies are at least as good as, if not better than John's yet they received far less allocade, but that is my opinion for what it is worth.
Col, fair play to you in raising that. I agree entirely and several times typed something along similar lines (far less eloquently than you) but bottled out before pressing submit because (a) no matter how I put it, it seemed to denegrate John's film (which is most definitely not be my intention) and (b) I am a mere newbie when it comes to film making and also someone who averages three stars so I accept my opinions about the quality of films may not be as valid as some others on this forum (even if they're wrong :lol: )
Tim
Proud to be an amateur film maker - I do it for the love of it
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Willy
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Re: YOUR BIAFF 2013 RESULTS

Post by Willy »

Hello Tom. I shouldn't have written this. My apologies. Mea culpa. I appreciate your great experience in this field very much. Also thanks to you our magazine is indespensible. Some friends always ask me to borrow the newest issue of FVM because they find your articles about cameras and other things very interesting. Perhaps you remember that I bought a new Sony NX5 two years ago because you recommended it. To buy a new camera or not to buy it. That was my question. Now I don't regret. The image quality is superb in the film that I am making at the moment. I always need some time to get used to a new machine or camera.

One moment I felt a bit desperate. I knew what to do during all those long winter nights: making films. I am very happy with it.

Now about In Search of Cavity Nesters. I know the film quite well. I also know the maker of it. He is the kindest man in the world. I also trust him. He is modest and honest. I called him a minute ago. He said that I may be sure for 200% that he filmed everything in 16:9. But, ... the club logo is in 4:3! It is the picture of our terrestial globe with the name of the club "Videoclub Deurne" on it. If you add that 4:3 logo to your 16:9 storyboard then you get a "flat" globe of course. That is a bit misleading. Swa, that's his name, always films in 16:9. I myself remember that some woodpeckers in this documentary are not very sharp. I mean some images of woodpeckers... So, ...

Anyway, also my friend told me that I shouldn't have said this on the forum. He can still sleep very well. On the contrary even. The judges'comments were very positive! Where else do you get such reports he said! Not in Belgium or anywhere else in the world. He is really very happy with his 3 stars. I don't remember if this documentary will be screened at BIAFF in Chesterfield, but be sure it is worth seeing it. His films are adventurous nature films. They are not stereotypical. In this film you can see Swa. He is in his mid seventies. You can see him wading through marshes and running on fallen tree trunks. He risked his life. The BIAFF 3 stars are a fantastic reward for the film he has made. Some years ago he won 1 star and he was the very last at BIAFF. Next year he will win the Daily Mail Trophy!
Willy Van der Linden
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Willy
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Re: YOUR BIAFF 2013 RESULTS

Post by Willy »

When reading your last message I thought about the Mersey Ten Competition five years ago, Jill.

I was the only judge at Preston , but I got enough time to watch the films at home in order to evaluate them. I took a decision but to be sure about my choice I showed these films in my two clubs before attending the festival. So actually there were 30 judges or more. The marks showed that there were two films that "towered" above the others. "Head in the Sand" by Paul Bagshaw and a film about "How to Become a Policeman?" (I don't remember the title).

Most clubmates chose Paul Bagshaw's film. Actually that was quite a relief. It was also my choice. It was a "battle" between a festival film and a promotion film. Fantastic how well the "policefilm" was edited! Technically it was a masterpiece. However in Paul's film there was more emotion in it. In Preston - Col was also there I guess - I asked the audience not to throw tomatoes at me. They did not, but a VIP who delivered a short speech, said that he expected a different film to be the winning one. He shouldn't have said this, but I could appreciate his opinion. The question is: how do we have to evaluate well-edited promotion films at festivals? I prefer real festival films. At Hollywood no promotion films are shown and that's good. In our clubs friends prefer promotion films I always fear. Friends are sometimes obsessed by the tchnical quality of the films. Last week a judge wrote in his report that he had heard something in my soundtrack. He didn't tell me what was wrong.
Willy Van der Linden
Peter Copestake
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Re: YOUR BIAFF 2013 RESULTS

Post by Peter Copestake »

I'm rather surprised that there are suggestions for changing the method of judging when there seem to be fewer gripes this year and comments, as opposed to rating, seem generally acceptable. Certainly it was unreasonable comments that were not based on fact that were my complaints.
If more than one judge agrees with another I should think that's quite remarkable.
You've only to look at different weather forecasts to realise how opinions vary when there is any personal opinion involved.
Peter Copestake
Bob Lorrimer
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Re: YOUR BIAFF 2013 RESULTS

Post by Bob Lorrimer »

Scanning through the 'Sunday Time Table' .. I see that John Robert's Film (Thinking Time) which has been awarded one of the 8 DIAMONDs is a little buried at 9.30am (first up in the session).

I can fully understand my own masterwork "NO WAY BACK" an uninhibited study of "Sexual longing and Lust" being shown while everybody is having lunch, but then - I don't have 'Diamonds' to my credit.

Bob
Michael Slowe
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Re: YOUR BIAFF 2013 RESULTS

Post by Michael Slowe »

Bob, I write this from my room at Chesterfield, where the devil are you, I've been looking for you? my film is also fairly well buried on Sunday morning, but then it's not about "uninhibited sexual longing and lust", would that it were!

Can we meet up somewhere in these wild parts?
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Willy
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Re: YOUR BIAFF 2013 RESULTS

Post by Willy »

I am writing this from my room in Beerzel (Belgium), my friends. I miss you. My film "Mon Petit Bonhomme" (5 stars) will be shown on Sunday afternoon. Maybe the organiser wanted to create some diversity in his programme. A Bob Lorrimor film always creates a "refreshing" breeze.

Yesterday I visited Julien Van de Velde, the little man and main character that you will see in my film "Mon Petit Bonhomme". As you know Julien and I planned to attend BIAFF for the 3rd consecutive time after Harrogate and Weymouth. My film on Sunday and Julien the filmstar! We will never get such a chance again! For me it would have been BIAFF number 12 or 13. We had already booked accommodation in Chesterfield, but alas ... In particular my friend Julien does not feel well. Chemotherapy ... cortisone ... Julien looks like Yul Brunner at this moment. He is as bald as a coot. But he can still laugh with it. He is always in a good mood. Of course you would not recognize him and that's very embarrassing.

We are both "roundheads" now. But I am working on my next film and in June I will be in England again if everything is Ok. I wish you all the best at BIAFF in the shadow of the crooked spire!
Willy Van der Linden
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