IAC International Judging ...

A forum for sharing views on the art of film, video and AV sequence making as well as on competitions, judging and festivals.
Mike Shaw

Re: IAC International Judging ...

Post by Mike Shaw » Mon Jan 28, 2013 11:08 pm

I wondered where and what was going on here - a new thread with pages of posts I hadn't seen? - then I saw the dates of the earlier posts! Suziedave - this year's results won't be out yet - I think judging for 2013 BIAFF starts mid February. If you have entries, rejoice! They'll be seen by the judges of course, but also stand a good chance of being seen on the Saturday - if not the Sunday - at the BIAFF weekend!

Also remember, the entries are initially judged and given a 'star rating' - it's only the top two star categories that go on to compete against other similarly top graded films for the trophies. So in that respect, I prefer BIAFF to any other competition - each film is judged and rated on its own merits, irrespective of subject, irrespective of what other people have done. So you're right, it really is worth entering - standing a good chance of being seen by lots of people, and as you say - that, surely, is the reason why (most of us) make films.

Mike Shaw

Re: IAC International Judging ...

Post by Mike Shaw » Tue Jan 29, 2013 10:16 am

Ooops ...

Just realised ...

I'm preaching to the converted ...

sorry Suziedave!

:oops:

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Suziedave
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Re: IAC International Judging ...

Post by Suziedave » Tue Jan 29, 2013 3:53 pm

Hi Mike

I hadn't noticed the dates of the other posts either, & should have twigged because Richard C, is judging in Feb, ha ha ha.

I am new to these forums, I did try a year or two go but then didnt have time whilst organising the AGM at Grange.

I have even put my post for help, into general instead of techno section..... And I really need help so I hope someone reads it, ha ha

Suzie x

(Moore)

[Suzie - I copied your request for help to the Technical forum ... so I hope some of our clever folk will offer an answer. Dave]

Chrisbitz
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Re: IAC International Judging ...

Post by Chrisbitz » Tue Jan 29, 2013 11:48 pm

****erm... I just realised, I replied to a thread from 3 years ago!! I'll go back to bed now :-) ****
billyfromConsett wrote: The hardest bit for me is where people who are now professional or semi-professional film-makers using our competition to help sell their wares and boost their careers in the industry.

Allowing movies that are being sold, well for me, has issues. And I agree it's not easy to act with fairness. But we have to try to be fair to bonefide amateurs surely?
I think it's almost a lost cause now - By being strict, you'd limit anyone from putting a film on YouTube as they might earn money from it. Equally, someone in the trade, could (and often does) pull in all sorts of favours from true professionals to work for free, and make a completely professional film as a showreel piece for zero budget.

However in all honesty, they wouldn't give Unica or the IAC a second look, as they're too lowbrow and unknown for them to be bothered with. So in a way we're already OK, as no true professional worth their salt would be interested in our sorts of competitions.
I like to make films, this is- my Youtube account. What's yours?

"all of the above is nothing more than nonsensical ramblings, and definately should NOT be misconstrued as anyone's official policy"

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Re: IAC International Judging ...

Post by ned c » Wed Jan 30, 2013 7:32 pm

Chrisbitz wrote:[
However in all honesty, they wouldn't give Unica or the IAC a second look, as they're too lowbrow and unknown for them to be bothered with. So in a way we're already OK, as no true professional worth their salt would be interested in our sorts of competitions.
Take a look at Pigeon Post

ned c

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Re: IAC International Judging ...

Post by Chrisbitz » Wed Jan 30, 2013 7:42 pm

ned c wrote:
Take a look at Pigeon Post

ned c

What's pigeon post? can you post a link or something?
I like to make films, this is- my Youtube account. What's yours?

"all of the above is nothing more than nonsensical ramblings, and definately should NOT be misconstrued as anyone's official policy"

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Dave Watterson
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Re: IAC International Judging ...

Post by Dave Watterson » Wed Jan 30, 2013 8:39 pm

At BIAFF 2012 Pigeon Post by Stewart Mackay won Best British Entry, Best Story and Best Acting Award (for Derek Fowlds)
At UNICA 2012 it won a Silver Medal.

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Re: IAC International Judging ...

Post by ned c » Wed Jan 30, 2013 10:03 pm

http://www.theiac.org.uk/iac/regions/so ... -jan13.pdf

Christbitz go to page 5 above for info on Pigeon Post

ned c

Chrisbitz
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Re: IAC International Judging ...

Post by Chrisbitz » Thu Jan 31, 2013 12:05 am

unless he's now become some sort of significant TV producer, I think its irrelevant. When I started my video production company, there were at least 4 people at my video club who had significantly better and more expensive equipment. However, that didn't stop me saying similar things to the person in the article about my company.

The sooner that people get away from this myth that expensive equipment makes a better film, the better. The more people complain about people who have access to better equipment just makes me feel more disconnected with you guys. My last film that I was really proud of (and has done very well so far) was made in 3 hours with an 8 year old FX1 in SD and a radio Mic.

The majority of amateur film-makers are technically professionals now in some way, so the description is completely irrelevant.

The fact is, that the vast majority of production houses and true professional filmmakers (ones that would easily spend 10-15k per day of filming), have no clue who or what the IAC or UNICA is. When Animal Planet filmed me, they had a 3.5k DSLR and a sound recorder, boom and radio mic. How's that out of the reach of an amateur? Or is the problem that professionals have professional friends or something? So there should be some friends that I'm not allowed to make zero budget films with?

Personally, even as an amateur film-maker, I'd prefer 100,000 views on YouTube any day over 3 Gold stars at UNICA or whatever the top prize is. Why would a big-shot professional be any different?
Maybe that's another indication of the future of film making?..
I like to make films, this is- my Youtube account. What's yours?

"all of the above is nothing more than nonsensical ramblings, and definately should NOT be misconstrued as anyone's official policy"

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TimStannard
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Re: IAC International Judging ...

Post by TimStannard » Thu Jan 31, 2013 8:17 am

I'm inclined to agree with Chris about the IAC being irrelevant to pros.
Winning or doing well in an "amateur" competition is not likely to enhance a professional's reputation. Doing badly, on the other hand, could damage it.
Why would a pro risk that?
Well, obviously Stewart Mackay was prepared to in this instance (I discount Derek Fowlds as he's nothing to "prove" and is effectively retired) but I doubt that's the norm.
Tim
Proud to be an amateur film maker - I do it for the love of it

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Dave Watterson
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Re: IAC International Judging ...

Post by Dave Watterson » Thu Jan 31, 2013 9:56 am

So far no organisation has managed to define "amateur film maker" in a way which satisfies most people. (I deliberately use the term "amateur film maker" to indicate the kind of thinking which went on when IAC , SAAC and similar bodies were originally formed.) In recent years all the national federations and UNICA the overarching international body, have struggled with this issue.

So far as Pigeon Post is concerned ... its director, Stewart Mackay, is or was a member of Bristol Video and Film Society. That club has several members who have worked in the film and television industry. Stewart's friend, Derek Fowlds, discussed making a "family film" with him. One of Derek's sons had written the story and his other sons were keen to take part in various roles as cast and crew. Stewart called in friends from the Bristol Club to help with the shoot. Derek used his connections in the acting world to persuade friends to give their time. So Derek wanted to make a family film but to the higher standards he was used to. Stewart wanted to help a friend and had a vague idea that the film might play to some indie film festivals.

The film is very carefully shot. It makes superb use of light, of locations around Bath, has beautifully recorded and deployed sound.
The same technical care was evident in Ron Prosser's Letters from the Front, in Phil Martin's In the National Interest, James Webber's Dancer, Wimborne Minster club's Montague Jack, to take a few British dramas which have had BIAFF success recently. All of those used some professional actors too.

Mike Shaw

Re: IAC International Judging ...

Post by Mike Shaw » Thu Jan 31, 2013 10:16 am

When writing the Southern Script for the next issue of FVM, I found two seemingly conflicting reports in two different club magazines - one bemoaning the use of 'professional equipment and professional actors by a professional cameraman to create an amateur movie', and the other - an 'amateur' club - proudly announcing they'd sold out of their 'xyz' video about a local landmark, within minutes of it going on sale. Both sides of the coin - and personally, I see nothing wrong and have no objection to either.

I guess in my day I could have been called a professional script writer - that was part of my job. I'm long retired - am I still a professional? I don't think so. Three of us are in the final throes of a movie that, from the outset, copies of have been requested by many individuals and organisations. We cannot afford to reproduce said copies for nothing, so we will be selling it to cover costs: we have agreed that any profits over and above costs will be donated to a charity (already selected and related to the movie). Are we still amateurs? I think so.

I think the am-pro waters have become extremely muddied. If Stephen Spielberg were to make an amateur movie, chances are it would win everything going: but I would want to see that movie - would see it as a standard to aspire to - and I'd be over the moon if one of my feeble efforts could be shown in the same programme.

The IAC defines what constitutes an 'amateur' film and film-maker and from my understanding of it, both the above situations can be acceptable. But perhaps the guide lines could be made clearer, simpler, and maybe even less seemingly restrictive.

The comment was made (in one of the club magazines) - "What is the 'pro' trying to prove by entering an amateur competition - it is like Man United playing the local under 11s, and winning 30-0'. In this thread there was a comment about a pro putting his head on the block by entering an amateur competition. Diverse views. Pros take on jobs for money - I think there are times when they may want to flex their creative muscles simply for the 'fun' of it. Are they barred from entering our competitions when so doing? And equally, there are times when an amateur would like to recoup some of the cost of his hobby by selling a film he makes. Does that stop him from being an amateur?

The 'rules' need to be looked at and clarified, I think.

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Re: IAC International Judging ...

Post by TimStannard » Thu Jan 31, 2013 1:16 pm

OK, I'm lost now. Is there anyone still arguing against professionals being involved in making and amateur film? It seems to me we're all in favour and have a diverse range of views justifying it.
Tim
Proud to be an amateur film maker - I do it for the love of it

Chrisbitz
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Re: IAC International Judging ...

Post by Chrisbitz » Thu Jan 31, 2013 1:26 pm

LOL! I think Carlos Varella from the IAC magazine still doesn't like it!

Although on a personal note, in my experience with the ones complaining the loudest, their main complaint is "they might make better films than me" Which kinda negates their opinion from my point of view. :-)
I like to make films, this is- my Youtube account. What's yours?

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Re: IAC International Judging ...

Post by john ingham » Fri Feb 01, 2013 9:49 am

just out of interest..i am using two pro actors for my film..they are doing it for nothing as they said..they love the script..but if the film turns out well, would this stop me from being able to enter into comps ?
Keep trying, for one day you will get it right

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