IAC International Judging ...

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billyfromConsett
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Re: IAC International Judging ...

Post by billyfromConsett »

Well I did inform an IAC official of what I noticed with 'Rex'. I've not had a reply as yet. Maybe if an investigation happens, there will not be enough time before Biaff, and it will get its Diamond anyway. It's a good movie, the Biaff audience will like it.

Maybe a section of the competition could be set out for 'supported movies'. Maybe there is isn't a problem with the present situation, except for the odd ones that turn up for sale on professional movie-makers websites ...
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Dave Watterson
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Re: IAC International Judging ...

Post by Dave Watterson »

I am a little surprised that Willy's colleagues from the Netherlands did not know Berry Van der Vorst's name. He has won prizes there several times. Among his awards are:

Publicity Award (for ‘Sticker’) at the 48Hour Film Project Utrecht, Nederlands Film Festival 2008
Honorable Mention (for ‘Rex’) at the Shocking Shorts Award, Nederlands Film Festival 2008
Nomination for Cultural Award Limburg 2007
Gold & Silver (for ‘Nexus’ & ‘Dear Mommy’) 4xF Filmfestival 2006
Best Youth Entry (for ‘Nexus’) Benelux Film Festival 2006
Gold & Silver (for ‘Nexus’ & ‘Dear Mommy’) British International Amateur Film Festival 2006
“Award Staatssecretaris Van der Laan” (Most Promising Debut) (for ‘A Mind’s Eye’) Benelux Film Festival 2005
"Rex" won a Bronze Knight at Malta.

Berry attended the festival in Bedford, so some of you may even have met him yourself!

Dave
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Willy
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Re: IAC International Judging ...

Post by Willy »

Dave Watterson wrote:I am a little surprised that Willy's colleagues from the Netherlands did not know Berry Van der Vorst's name. He has won prizes there several times. Among his awards are:


Berry attended the festival in Bedford, so some of you may even have met him yourself!

Dave
Sorry, Dave, last week my wife and I were with Huub Bervoets in Holland. You know who I mean. You even know why I was there. Huub takes part in all Dutch festivals and also in NOVA every year. He won (a) medal(s) at Unica. He lives in Stein near Maastricht, which is in Limburg ! We both looked at the results of BIAFF. I asked Huub if he knew "Rex" and its filmmaker. He said "no". Also his wife didn't seem to know Berry Van der Vorst either.

I was a final judge at NOVA 2008 and there were no films made by him. I'm sure about that, otherwise I am growing demented.

Indeed, I remember that there was a young Dutchman at the festival in Bedford some years ago. He said something about Urbain's subititles... Urbain Appeltans was the overall winner with "Hannah" then. I even talked to this young Dutchman. Maybe it was him. You are right. Hopefully you don't think that I have spun a yarn in my previous message. That's not my style. Anyway, perhaps that young man has become a commercial filmmaker in the mean time. I am not against it. However, if his films are for sale on the website, and "Rex" in particular, then he should not have taken part in BIAFF.

Just before writing this message I had a phone call with Urbain Appeltans. You know, Dave, that Urbain is half Belgian-half Dutch. Urbain lives in Limburg on the Dutch border and takes part in festivals in the Netherlands. He was even asked to represent the Netherlands at Unica a few years ago. With "Hannah", the "Daily Mail Trophy" winning-film. Urbain was thinking hard when I had asked him. No he remembers a Van der Vorst in Bedford. He also remembers the Dutchman taking part in the Benelux-festival with "Nexus" which must be a film in black and white. However, it is possible that Van der Vorst in not a member of the Dutch federation NOVA. Urbain is not sure that he ever took part in a Dutch festival for non-commercial filmmakers. Very intrigueing story, isn't it ? Tonight I will call an other Dutchman. I think it is important.
Willy Van der Linden
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Willy
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Re: IAC International Judging ...

Post by Willy »

[quote="Willy"][quote="Dave Watterson"]
Sorry that I am here again. I have read the Berry Van der Vorst website. Perhaps Dave has found all the awards on Berry's website. It also says the following thing which is very important in my opinion :
Berry van der Vorst : Broad experience in producing commercial audiovisual content. Owns Tempest Film, a company focussing mainly on producint high quality adiovisuals for business markets. Won multiple awards at several international festivals for productions released under sublabel StormCloud Pictures (non profit)
Berry Van der Vorst honors : IAC Challenge Trophy (for Rex) Chesterfield 2009.
Willy Van der Linden
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Dave Watterson
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Re: IAC International Judging ...

Post by Dave Watterson »

Hi Willy

Of course I did not mean to suggest that you were spinning a yarn ... nor that you are demented !!!

I was just surprised that your Dutch friends did not know him. As I said in the previous message he won a prize at the Benelux Festival in 2005 - the same event where you won a prize for "Together With Yoda".
He also won a prize as "for the best young hope" at the Benelux Festival in 2006 .

The NOVA Annual Report for 2006 reported: "Het jaar 2006 werd voor de LOVA getekend door enkele nieuwe activiteiten. Zo werd op 21 mei voor de eerste keer in samenwerking met het Huis voor de Kunsten een jongerenfestival gehouden onder de naam 4xF, wat staat voor Fast Forward Filmfestival, in de Azijnfabriek te Roermond. Een podium met wedstrijdelement voor jongeren tot 27 jaar om hun films aan een breder publiek te vertonen. Die dag werden er 24 films van jongeren vertoond. De film ‘Nexus’ van Berry van der Vorst uit Venlo werd tot beste film verkozen. "

Dave
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Willy
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Re: IAC International Judging ...

Post by Willy »

Dave Watterson wrote:Hi Willy


The NOVA Annual Report for 2006 reported: "Het jaar 2006 werd voor de LOVA getekend door enkele nieuwe activiteiten. Zo werd op 21 mei voor de eerste keer in samenwerking met het Huis voor de Kunsten een jongerenfestival gehouden onder de naam 4xF, wat staat voor Fast Forward Filmfestival, in de Azijnfabriek te Roermond. Een podium met wedstrijdelement voor jongeren tot 27 jaar om hun films aan een breder publiek te vertonen. Die dag werden er 24 films van jongeren vertoond. De film ‘Nexus’ van Berry van der Vorst uit Venlo werd tot beste film verkozen. "

Dave
In think we both spend all day in front of our computer, Dave, even during a sunny weekend. Time to have a chat at the bar in Chesterfield.

The text in Dutch does not show that Berry Van der Vorst took part in a NOVA competition. It says : In 2006 there were some new activities organized by LOVA. (L = Limburg; LOVA is the regional/provincial organisation). On 21st May a festival for young people was organised in cooperation with the "Huis voor de Kunsten" under the name 4 x F which means Fast Forward Film Festival. It took place in the Vinegar Factory at Roermond. It was organised for people younger than 27, this to give them the opportunity to show their films to a wider audience. That day 24 films made by youngsters were shown. The film "Nexus" made by Berry Van der Vorst from Venlo was chosen as the best film". I think it is normal that our Dutch friends don't know the name of Van der Vorst as it was an incidental festival in a region to promote young people. I know the "Huis voor de Kunsten" in Roermond very well. It is a mansion that is used by the Province of Limburg to stimulate cultural activities in the region. The best 50-60 NOVA-films were shown there for the national festival in 2008. I was a member of the judging panel.
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Dave Watterson
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Re: IAC International Judging ...

Post by Dave Watterson »

Sorry, my hasty note is causing some confusion, perhaps, Willy.

The festival references I gave came from Benelux Festival websites - the NOVA annual report piece was an additional note.

I meant to show that even if NOVA members did not pay full attention to the results of the Benelux Festivals each year (and I am sure they do!) there was a mention of the man in their own organisation's annual report a couple of years ago as well.

Dave
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Re: IAC International Judging ...

Post by billyfromConsett »

In some ways I'm a little embarressed to have brought this subject onto our forum. Berry clearly started out non-commercial, but he states on his website to having broad experience in commercial audio-visual. If I've got this wrong I apologise. It's confusing to know what we ought to allow as amateur movies - that are being made for creativity first, and for commercial gain purely as an afterthought. I might offer a movie made by me for regional TV. If I receive some money from the BBC for this should I stop being in the IAC?

I looked to see for the rules about entering Biaff but couldn't find them. Can anybody link me the rules?
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Re: IAC International Judging ...

Post by Dave Watterson »

You will find a link to the rules on http://www.theiac.org.uk/central/IACcompetition.htm

The relevant words are:
"The competition is only open to bona fide amateur film makers." which is in the introduction and
Rule 1: "An amateur film or video is one that is deemed to be made for love, with no financial or other reward and without professional assistance."

Forgive me if I sound a little cynical ... but how many copies of a short amateur drama film do you think anyone would sell? Local documentaries are sometimes sold by some clubs and individuals, but again I suspect the total numbers will usually be pretty small.

Our old friends at Channel 7 Productions sell their movies - presumably mainly to the cast and their families. They have done that for some time and I am not aware of anyone suggesting they are not amateurs. That is just one off the top of my head. I suspect that many film makers and clubs also sell copies of their dramas for a small sum and that very few of them will earn enough from the sales to buy a decent meal in a restuarant.

Dave
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Willy
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Re: IAC International Judging ...

Post by Willy »

Dave Watterson wrote:You will find a link to the rules on http://www.theiac.org.uk/central/IACcompetition.htm

Dave
Do not feel embarrassed, Billy. You are not the only one. Me, too. I always fear that I can't control myself in a discussion. We must always think twice, three times, four times, ... before writing a message. I also understand Dave. In fact we should have kept our mouths shut. "Rex" is a fantastic film. Now I understand Dave better. I saw "Rex" on my computer half an hour ago. People in Chesterfield should enjoy it without thinking of the discussion we are having now. Luckily there is no sound on my computer. I will enjoy the film even more when we are in Chesterfield. The acting is super : the lady, the handicapped man, the children ... It's about a 70-year old lady and the boyfriend of her granddaughter. A film full of emotion. In fact it is a pity that we can already watch at least two of the BIAFF award winning films on our computer. The British International Film Festival on our computer. If the other four German films are also of such a high quality then BIAFF 2009 is a top festival. Luckily BIAFF is also the ideal meetingplace for friends who make films for fun. We can discuss there by a cup of Earl Grey during the intervals or a glass of "Courage" after dinner. Yes, I agree, Dave, nobody can become a rich man by selling his films. Only by making adverts for TV, but that's something different. Now, I promise, this is my last message on this thread. I didn't say ... "on this "forum". See you in Chesterfield !
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Dave Watterson
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Re: IAC International Judging ...

Post by Dave Watterson »

I'm REALLY glad it will not be your last message on the forum, Willy. You add so much to our discussions. And Billy has nothing to apologise for.

Personally I do not mind at all what we discuss, so long as we are reasonably polite. Of course we go off-topic and sometimes go too far ... but that is what happens in most conversations. Please let no one hold back their ideas, concerns, delights ...

As for the movies at BIAFF ... yes, I think there are plenty of excellent ones. I have not seen them all, but I know 15 of those being shown on Sunday and they are very good indeed, as you might expect. There are lots of gems on Saturday too ... and not all of them have 5 or 4 stars.

I am delighted to hear that some South Korean film makers will be attending. Let's all practice bowing with our eyes on the floor and not looking at the person being greeted that way. Several Brits have told me they hope to get there ... please do. BIAFF has a buzz about it which is invigorating as well as the super movies.

Cheers

Dave
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Re: IAC International Judging ...

Post by Ken Wilson »

Just when you thought this thread was dying gracefully, here comes that stirrer Ken Wilson again.
Well that is an old chestnut, "What is an amateur film? This could (and has) gone on at great length. Lots of interesting comments from Ned, Billy and Willy, before we went off on a bit of a tangent. Most of us who make AMATEUR fiction films, do so with a few friends, local actors or club members, in our spare time at weekends. We have no budget to speak of; I don`t think I have spent more than £100 including tapes, for any of my films. Props, costumes and locations usually are provided from within the group. A tracking shot is made, using (as Willy said) a wheelchair. Mostly everything we use is cobbled together, bought from charity shops or found at home. This is in the genuine and honest spirit of being an amateur or N/C film maker. Equipment doesn`t make the film, not does a grant or being financially well-heeled, but it helps quite a bit. The idea and skill is the key, but having the facilities to realise the idea is also a huge factor.
There is a world of difference between a film as described above and several films which find their way into BIAFF. I remember one from a few years ago (title forgotten though) which had rolling end credits similar to those on Star Wars. In other words, they went on...and on. But the final crunch came with one which said:
DOLBY THEATRE SOUND in selected theatres! Odd. I queried that with the competition manager, who said he has asked the film maker who had assured him that it was a bona fide amateur film...though it didn`t appear that way. So the explanation was accepted.
We expect that we are all starting from a similar point and competing as fairly as we can. In some sports, there are ways to handicap to cancel out a perceived unfair advantage and to make it a level "playing field." But what solution can there be to it? I thought that there did once used to be an "amateur" section and an "open" section in IAC competitions, but was this another competition like the Cotswold?
In Ned`s definition, any of us who make wedding videos for payment, would be professional too. A fair point. And that would include myself.
Ken Wilson.
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Dave Watterson
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Re: IAC International Judging ...

Post by Dave Watterson »

I thought that there did once used to be an "amateur" section and an "open" section in IAC competitions,

You are right, Ken, it was in the IAC competition. I am not sure when it began, but have a vague recollection that it might have been when Bernard Ashby was in charge and chased up some student films from the USA through an agency called C.I.N.E. ... IAC Council opted for an "Open" section in the competition to cover film-school students in the main, but perhaps to allow for other cases too. I am not clear why it was dropped in 2003. The Cotswold Festival had an open section throughout its life.

Perhaps it is time to reconsider that option.

Ken and others have also touched on the problem of policing any decisions ... in practice what can a Competition Officer do other than just ask entrants and accept what they are told?"

Dave
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Re: IAC International Judging ...

Post by billyfromConsett »

The efforts I put together aren't going to lose a mark because of the involvement of film-schools and career movie-makers. But will a few others lose out? I would guess that probably happens with individual honours.

I can cope with the issues that many of our movies, without budgets, without kit costing £10k+, without having teams of professional media lecturers spending many man hours perfecting every facet of a group movie, and without lots of people given credits being compared to ones that we do.

The hardest bit for me is where people who are now professional or semi-professional film-makers using our competition to help sell their wares and boost their careers in the industry.

Allowing movies that are being sold, well for me, has issues. And I agree it's not easy to act with fairness. But we have to try to be fair to bonefide amateurs surely?

A class for supported/semi-pro movies would help. Whether it can happen I've no idea.
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Re: IAC International Judging ...

Post by Suziedave »

Hi and congratulations to all of you who have had Biaff results, :D
I entered two very short movies, but not expecting to win anything.
Anyhow it's the taking part, not the winning that counts surely!!! :roll:
Although I think my Father used to just say that to me so I would never be disappointed. :lol:
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