Would you let your award winners be circulated?

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Dave Watterson
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Would you let your award winners be circulated?

Post by Dave Watterson »

In various threads here the idea of circulating award-winning films has been put forward. Of course the IAC Video Library already hires out DVDs and tapes - each of which has around 80 - 90 minutes worth of top films. But the notion seems to be that a wider, free or low-cost circulation of discs would be welcomed.

That would be fine for the film watchers. How would the film makers feel about it?

If a set of discs with all the major winners from a BIAFF, a Guernsey Lily or one of the late Cotswold festivals were to be circulated free - or on a p&p only basis - to all the clubs and to anyone else who asked ... would you be happy for your film to be on it?

Personally - if I should ever make a film good enough to be seen in public, let alone to win a major competition, I'd be enormously flattered and pleased to have it sent round to interested viewers. But many film makers stress that they have copyright on their films and seem suspicious about setting their films free in the world.

Would the films be copied from the discs? Of course they would. We can give warnings and even add some rights-management to discs but everything can be copied. Again, speaking personally, I'd be chuffed if someone liked my work enough to want to keep a copy.

Would someone "pirate" films and sell them to Hollywood or television? Probably not. The very best of our films are certainly good enough to go on TV but television schedulers like series of programmes. They want 13 or 26 films of the same length - not one or two at various odd lengths.

What say you, o wise denizens of the forum?

Dave
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fraught
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Post by fraught »

I'm like you Dave in that i would be flattered. I put all my films up on YouTube or Vimeo anyway, so the world enjoys them already. :)

I know what you mean about fear of my films perhaps being pirated or sold to a TV Station, as i had an experience of this recently. A sequence from my film 'Overtime' was shown on BBC News 24 on Sunday, and i had no idea it was shown until after the event. They had got the clip from YouTube, so i guess i have no way of complaining. My only gripe is that I would have liked to have provided a better quality copy than the version they used! :)
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Mike Shaw

Post by Mike Shaw »

I'd trust the IAC distribution circuit more than I'd trust YouTube. I have only one film on YouTube and it has hardly been viewed (probably because it is almost impossible to find - even for me!!).

One way to approach films added to YouTube would be to put a copyright notice throughout, as a watermark. What a pain!

I'd have no objection to my films being circulated by the IAC - like Dave and Fraught, I make my films to be seen and would actually be flattered if they're deemed good enough to be included on an IAC showreel. Since we (the film-makers) don't make any money out of the films, I don't mind them being copied (non-commercially) either - in fact I know at least one of mine has been copied many times.

I'm also pleased to see the IAC 'hiring' rate has been reduced: in some ways, its a bit like the way Libraries used to treat (or not treat!) authors. It costs money to create coimpilation discs, and the IAC shouold be able to recoup that and put a little (operative word - little) back into the coffers to help fund further enterprise. The film-makers get nothing of course, except the kudos of being shown to a wider audience.
Michael Slowe
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Circulation of Films

Post by Michael Slowe »

Dave Watterson raises the subject of film circulation as a novelty. In my experience this already happens. I personally get frequent requests either for individual tapes or DVD's of my films and I'm perfectly happy to oblige, after all why do we make films if we don't want the widest possible circulation? The only possible problem might be if non copyright cleared music is used but I think that one could 'hide' behind the IAC Copyright scheme (if joined of course). One thing I do request though is that if the film is to be shown to an audience, the kit used provides a decent picture and the correct aspect ratio is employed.
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Willy
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Re: Would you let your award winners be circulated?

Post by Willy »

It gives me an ego-boost !
All IAC-friends who would like to have a copy can have one. Also the other ones, but I prefer IAC-friends. I don't have any problems knowing that copies are made and shown without my permission. It gives me an ego-boost (bit joking). Of course I would be furious if my films would be sold ! But I would be happy if someone would sell them for charity (cancer appeal, people in need, hospice ...). I love friendly pirates.

Every Belgian club receives free compiliation-disc
Yes, there is the copyright problem. In Belgium we are not allowed to make more than one copy, but I wonder how many filmmakers do this. Last year my film "Breendonk" was on the compilation-disc. Our Belgian IAC, called CvB, makes many copies of that compilation disc. Every club receives one. The films of the national competition are on it. There is a watermark in the left corner of each film. Also on my "Breendonk". Anyway, I am proud that they have chosen my film for this compilation disc. For the first time !

So, IAC-friends, make as many copies of my films as you wish, but do not sell them.

I screened a film without any permission ! I am very bad !
In Britain the policy is more friendly than in Belgium. That's my feeling. Last year I was at BIAFF. One of the filmmakers who lived a few kilometres from my house (I moved in the mean time) also took part in BIAFF. Let's call him "Spider". I didn't see his film in Harrogate as I preferred to watch Ken Wilson's.

As you know on Saturday films are screened in different hotel rooms at the same time. I thought that I could see Spider's film at home. Brian Dunckley, the festival secretary, gave me an envelope at the end of the festival. I put Spider's mini-DV in it together with his certificate. I remember it was silver plus. I had the same score.

A registered letter !
In my club I showed the film before giving it back to Spider who is a member of a different club. Afterwards Spider heard that his film was screened in my clubhouse. He was furious ! He even wrote a registered letter to me with the following title : "Misuse of other people's property !". The National Board of Governors of the Belgian IAC (CvB) put my misbehaviour on the agenda.


Imagine that I had made a copy of his film ! I was surprised because I had been so kind. I had even translated a text about him for the IAC-website and he was happy with it.

Think twice before copying/screening films !Why was he furious ? Perhaps he was not happy with the result at BIAFF. Perhaps also because he sells his films in Belgium ! Anyway I learnt a lesson. Be careful, friends. Think twice before copying films or even before screening it without any permission !
Willy Van der Linden
ned c
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Post by ned c »

The AMPS entry form has a request for a release from the film maker so that the film may be copied to the AMPS winners DVDs and circulated. Somewhere in Europe two sets of the AMPS 2007 winner's DVDs are circulating (I hope).

Without wider distribution our film making efforts are almost meaningless, we make films to be viewed, even better if the viewers comment in writing so that the comments may be published or passed on.

The best thing that could happen to n-c film makers is for our films to find a wider audience. My reaction is please copy, show on TV preferably letting me know and acknowledge there is a world of film making that offers something different from the usual cinema/TV fare

ned c
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stingman
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Post by stingman »

I see no problem! The Copyright monster rears it`s ugly head again!

I would feel great if someone wanted to copy and show one of my films.

BTW. I do owe a few people a copy of some of my films. I havn`t forgotton, editing commitments and club comps, and doing film stuff for people eats up my computer time!

Be good all.....

Stingman
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billyfromConsett
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Post by billyfromConsett »

I'd have no problems with the IAC loaning out free disks or tapes with any of my movies on them.

I thought about getting an IAC disk to use a movie from it for a presentation at my club, but ditched the idea probably cos of the £10 cost. There's something that jars about the IAC making money from hiring out disks with my matierial on though, not that I've monitored it.
Mike Shaw

Post by Mike Shaw »

I thnk they have lowered the cost - to £7 or something?.

Surely the cost is to cover creating a disc, a case, possibly printing on it (OK, they're all 'one-offs - that is, IF the discs are returned. Otherwise ...), postage, envelope. And maybe someone's expenses in doing it and getting it into the post: would you do it all for free?

If so - hey! Take the job over! :)

In fact, I doubt whether they make anything much out of it, and even if they did, you've entertained a club for an evening, and put a small sum into the IAC kitty in return. The IAC doesn't run itself for free and needs an income to survive - over and above the 'subs'.

I know from being part of the Seriac and KFF committees, the amount of money accrued through putting on events etc is very small indeed - and if people were paid for what they did, (i.e., organising events, producing the regional magazines and so on - all of which cost money to produce) as in a company - then there'd be a massive loss unless all prices - festival entrance fees, competition entry fees etc - went up considerably.

That's how I see it all, anyway. Could be wrong... wouldn't be the first time!
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billyfromConsett
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Post by billyfromConsett »

Oh Mike!
How many jobs would you like me to have?

Point taken - I'm smiling and agreeing with you as I type. :wink:
Mike Shaw

Post by Mike Shaw »

Aaaah, the trouble with volunteering is it never stops. My problem is nodding off at meetings ... and everyone thinking I'm nodding to accept another 'volunteer' job.

Oh well!
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Willy
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Post by Willy »

Mike Shaw wrote:Aaaah, the trouble with volunteering is it never stops. My problem is nodding off at meetings ... and everyone thinking I'm nodding to accept another 'volunteer' job.

Oh well!
That's also my problem, Mike.
And I also have some very bad experience.
Imagine : last year a filmmaker asked me to translate his film in order to subtitle it. It is a very long film. I worked on it for about 1 week. I always send my translation to Dave Watterson and he polishes my text.

To be honest : I enjoy translating texts and I enjoy reading the text that has been polished.

However, that young filmmaker didn't subitle his film after having received the polished text. He had been too busy. He promised me to enter his film for BIAFF or Guernsey next year.

I fear that he won't do it. What would you do ?

I met him some weeks ago. He shook hands and after that he disappeared immediately. Maybe he felt embarrassed. I also have his BIAFF-certificates and a trophy. Christiane Surdiacourt gave me these after having attended BIAFF in April. That filmmaker (who's a very good one) lives about 7 miles from my house. I asked him to come and get his certificates and trophy. So that was in May...

Sometimes you accept things but after having done the efforts those creatures are not always very grateful and they do not respect the things that you have done for them. That's very fustrating. Good to be kind all the time, bad to be an idiot from time to time.

I could tell you more anecdotes, but this forum is not a "Moaning Wall". Perhaps there is a better translation for "Klaagmuur", isn't there ? I am moving to my new flat next Friday and my English dictionaries are already in a cardboard-box in the new flat.
Willy Van der Linden
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Willy
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Post by Willy »

I have been asked to show people how to make a one minute movie. It's on 29th November from morning till evening ! The organizers : our regional board of governors (CvB region Antwerp).

I will show about 25 one minute movies and we will critize them. Every particpant will be a judge. We will also do other things : writing short scripts, etc...

I wonder if there is a compilation disc of British one minute movies. That would be very helpful. Of course I am willing to pay for it or to give some of my own films.
Willy Van der Linden
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