BIAFF 2008 - The Results

A forum for sharing views on the art of film, video and AV sequence making as well as on competitions, judging and festivals.

Are you happy with your "Award"?

Poll ended at Sun Apr 27, 2008 8:24 am

Yes
8
80%
No
2
20%
 
Total votes: 10

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fraught
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BIAFF 2008 - The Results

Post by fraught » Fri Mar 28, 2008 8:24 am

Well... anyone happy with their score?

My film got 2 stars, and i have to say i'm extremely dissappointed, especially after reading what 2 stars means! I honestly thought it was better than that.

I'm still waiting for the postman to deliver my letter so i can read why the judges marked it so low!

I'm off to find a dark corner to sulk!
Only Boring People Get Bored
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stingman
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Post by stingman » Fri Mar 28, 2008 9:04 am

What was your film called fraught?
Could you put it on Youtube? Then we could give a few comments.

When we were talking about judges comments a few months back. I think it was Dave who pointed out a film on Youtube and I suggested that we all give comments on it. Only David and I did it! Very dissapointing!

Anyway, It would be good to see it.

Sorry about the two stars :cry: :cry:

Be good.....

Stingman
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Dave Watterson
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Post by Dave Watterson » Fri Mar 28, 2008 12:08 pm

Stingman - in case Fraught is busy drowning his sorrows - I'll tell you - you can see the film which is called "ABC" on his own website at
http://www.fraught.net/films/abc/index.htm

Dave

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Post by fraught » Fri Mar 28, 2008 12:35 pm

LOL...cheers for that Dave. The wife has told me that the letter arrived this morning. I shall look forward to reading the judgers comments! :wink:
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Post by fraught » Fri Mar 28, 2008 12:38 pm

I forgot to mention that the version on my site is not the final version that was submitted to BIAFF08. The one that was submitted was slightly shorter, with a few extra tweaks.
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Chrisbitz
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Post by Chrisbitz » Fri Mar 28, 2008 3:09 pm

I've just watched your film, and I certainly think you worked hard on the music, as it seemed very well chosen!

You have an unusual sound to your voiceover voice... :-) almost like you're recording the VO late at night, and the kids are asleep in the next room! :-)

The film didn't really tell me any story - and that's one thing that I personally look for in a docu. like a beginning, middle and end?

There was some stunning scenery, but I wasn't sure why everyone was standing around looking at the burning grass for so long - maybe a VO telling us what was happening? I know if I was there, I wouldn't have known whether to put it out or leave it - some farmers start fires deliberately, and if I'd put it out, some farmer would have come over angrily telling me to leave things alone that I don't understand! :-)

The music at that point was very dramatic, which added to my confusion as to why no-one seemed to be doing anything!

What did the judges say about it?
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Are you happy..........?

Post by Peter Copestake » Fri Mar 28, 2008 3:23 pm

Yes, but, as usual, puzzled by judges comments, this time that the main point of the film was considered to be added on and too long. I thought I'd sent them the more detailed - for enthusiasts, wanting to know more - version but it's the right length, so.....
Have put a query on the main forum about the bit, which I wasn't happy about, that gave the judges most cause to complain. Peter C.
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fraught
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Post by fraught » Fri Mar 28, 2008 9:02 pm

Chrisbitz wrote:I've just watched your film, and I certainly think you worked hard on the music, as it seemed very well chosen!

You have an unusual sound to your voiceover voice... :-) almost like you're recording the VO late at night, and the kids are asleep in the next room! :-)
Ahem! Ummm... you're not far off their! :wink: I've never actually done a VO before, so this was more my bedtime story voice! :)
Chrisbitz wrote:The film didn't really tell me any story - and that's one thing that I personally look for in a docu. like a beginning, middle and end?
This is the bit i'm struggling with. It's something that the Judges loosely mentioned to. The story is "3 friends decide to trek to ABC in the Himalayas, and the film follows their journey from MBC to ABC". That sentiment is said to the viewer right at the beginning of the film, so i'm wondering if people are trying to find more in there when their really isn't or perhaps i'm not stressing the storyline enough? I'm not one for Voice Overs, and i really wasn't 100% happy with putting one on this film, but i felt it needed it to atleast explain to people what they are about to see. Maybe i got it wrong?
Chrisbitz wrote:There was some stunning scenery, but I wasn't sure why everyone was standing around looking at the burning grass for so long - maybe a VO telling us what was happening? I know if I was there, I wouldn't have known whether to put it out or leave it - some farmers start fires deliberately, and if I'd put it out, some farmer would have come over angrily telling me to leave things alone that I don't understand! :-)
The music at that point was very dramatic, which added to my confusion as to why no-one seemed to be doing anything!
I think you are right here... i should have put a VO in to explain what was happening. I was kinda hoping people would work it out. The grass fire was just there when we turned a corner, and some people where not sure what to do. A couple of us took it upon ourselves to put it out.
Chrisbitz wrote:What did the judges say about it?
Before i go on about what the judges thought, let me explain... ABC is just over 10 minutes long. The opening credits sequence lasts 30 seconds, and the pre-main trek sequences last a total of 2 minutes. The rest of the film is purely about the trek between MBC and ABC with roughly 30 seconds of end credits.

The judges negative points were;

* Took too long to get to the main part of the story
* Not happy with the style of title
* Too much time spent on less relevant material like the bus journey and the spider sequence
* Not happy that the name of the Guest House was not revealed
* Not clear on how many people were on the journey
* too many "accidental shots of feet" type shots common in beginner's films
* Commentary not informative, wanted to know how far we went, who was in the party, and why ABC

The judges positive points were;

* A wonderful record for you of this fabulous adventure
* ... that's it...

What i am most unhappy about, is that it would appear to me that the people judging the movie were wanting facts and figures and were not worried about being entertained. I'm kind of having flashbacks to other judges comments to other films of mine where they were unhappy about things that were not even relevant to the actual film. I mean let's be serious here... why waste two whole sentances (out of a total of 10 in the entire judges comments) on the fact that they couldn't see what the Guest House was called!

I wont write out all my moans and groans (as much as i really want to!)... but i urge you to watch the film and then let me know whether you agree with the Judges or not?

Because i'm so close to this project, i could just be really blind to its faults... or i could be right... please tell me! :)

Click here to watch the film : http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=yVYrgvkEU8w
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Post by Chrisbitz » Sat Mar 29, 2008 8:32 am

ok, thanks for being gentle with my hopefully constructive comments! :-)

I felt there were two parts to the film - the first bit with the bus journey and the spider, were ok, (I liked the spider bit) but I'm not sure they were truly relevant to the film you were making - it kinda felt like "this is some really cool footage, how can I get it into the film?"
I do exactly the same thing with SFX shots - you spend a day gettting some fantastic FX shot, and in the edit you try and use all 40secs of it, when really it's only justified for 5secs! BUT YOU SPENT A DAY GETTING IT!!!! :-) it's frustrating!

with the main story, beginning middle and end, I don't know how to put it correctly, but here goes - maybe someone better than me can explain correctly?

Beginning:
What are we watching?
what can we expect to happen?
Why are they going?
Why is it interesting?

Middle
This is what happened
Interesting bits along the way
Some show of progress, so we know we're further along then 2 mins ago

End
We finished
Why it was hard or filmworthy
Would we do it again

I'm not sure this is all correct, but I'm just trying to give some idea for content if you were trying to conform to that style of docu..

Also, with all my opinions, feel free to disregard if you don't agree - they're nothing more than mere opinions :-)
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BIAFF - the results

Post by Peter Copestake » Sat Mar 29, 2008 10:22 am

Good for you, Fraught, for inviting comments.
I didn't bother about the name of the guest house, perhaps I missed a bit of the commentary that was relevant that made the judges comment on this, but what I found weak was the marvelous still shots led us to believe we were going to see stunning scenery on the film (otherwise why did you go? Just because it was there?) but the wobbly footage let this side of it down. The fire was worth showing but did need explanation. Glad you put it out. These fires can be caused by discarded bottles, can't they, and I've heard that mountains are being disgracefully littered.
Peter Copestake

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Mike Shaw
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Post by Mike Shaw » Sat Mar 29, 2008 1:04 pm

Going back to the original question, I had two films in, both received three stars. Now I've read what the star system means, I'm perfectly happy with that result. They were both short films and a bit 'light', so three stars to me is a pretty good outcome. Gratifying.

Earning more - four - would be great, and something to strive for.

Five ... or a diamond even ... hmmm. I don't think I'm up to that standard, or ever will be. Though one of my edits did win a gold a few years back (Moody Waters).

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Post by billyfromConsett » Sat Mar 29, 2008 2:19 pm

After looking at the definitions, I voted that I'm happy with my award, but in all honesty, I was a little disappointed that one of my movies didn't get a star higher the three they both got.

I probably feel this because it's the best film I've ever made, and the mark is only middle of the scale. The descriptions of the awards makes me feel better actually, and it's been picked to be shown at Harrogate. So I must be happy.

But despite the definition of a three star movie being "well made, technically competent, keeps our interest and/or entertains" it is the middle of the road award. Our minds, despite a line of description, work mostly on perceptions that lie below the surface. So In my mind, my best ever film is an average middle of the road job...

Re ABC - observations from general experience...

I've used opening titling from an app like Hollywood FX, and have never found a judge to like them. Or virtually the same with any transition except a cross disolve. Effects like those are labelled gimmicky, flashy, showy and can be seen to lack style. So maybe ABC got off to a bad start....

I've made a doco about a few of us doing a Coast-to-Coast bike ride, and it didn't really entertain people at the club - probably because of the lack of camera stability, not brilliant camerawork, and the fact that the film was about a few guys the audience had never met, and had no affinity with. The humour I put in enterained the people who did the ride, but was totally lost on the club audience.

So motion titles I've abandoned, and now I would only put a movie into a competition that any age-group of judge may appreciate.

I'm generalising but in my opinion few people in our clubs would actually approve of many type of modern efforts such as pop videos, or much in the way of student docos or dramas containing any swearing, violence, crudness, or adult comedy.

Back to ABC
It might look like a movie made from holiday footage decently edited, but made for the people in the movie. Also the coughing and clearing one's head from the fumes of the fire may not sit comfortably with judges just after lunch. There are a couple of shots where people look like sillouttes, with a really bright, snow covered mountian behind them. It may have been felt that some effort could have been made to lighten the faces. I'm just guessing why it got 2 stars. I thought that the sequence with the fire went on a bit and the bus ride could have been filmed with more care, even on a rattling bumpy crowed bus!

The overall ratings show 7 diamond awards and only 5 five star awards.

But there are listed as 109 three star movies; the single most outcome.

I don't know, numbers of stars are a exact rating - 5 is better than 4. So I don't know if it's actually better than medal rating.

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Post by ned c » Sat Mar 29, 2008 5:19 pm

Some thoughts from another two star achiever! My short was an opener for a gala evening of a theatre group so it does not work well as a free standing movie so I am not surprised/disapointed by my score. I await the judge's comments with interest.

Having sat on both sides of the competition fence remember that judges give it their best shot and also accept that judging is SUBJECTIVE. As movie makers we have to try and put ourselves in the position of a person seeing the film for the first time and with no knowledge of the maker or the participants.

We also have to sit back and look at the judge's comments and relate them to the movie, if we follow the judges suggestions will a better movie be the result? I suspect that in most cases the answer is yes!

ned c

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Post by Willy » Sat Mar 29, 2008 6:01 pm

ned c wrote: Having sat on both sides of the competition fence remember that judges give it their best shot and also accept that judging is SUBJECTIVE....

We also have to sit back and look at the judge's comments and relate them to the movie, if we follow the judges suggestions will a better movie be the result? I suspect that in most cases the answer is yes!

ned c
Are you happy with your result ? I have voted Yes
. However I am not happy with the judges' comments. My film "Will Ye Go to Flanders ?" is already bad, but with their suggestions it would be even worse. I have given my opinion on the previous thread already.

An other example ... the judges wrote : "Many cemeteries were visited in your film and one or two could have been omitted without detracting from the impact of the story."

That's something I don't understand. I show the following cemeteries : a Belgian one (where my greatuncles lie), a French one but after a battle scene with French soldiers, a German one but after a battle scene with Germans and the screaming of a German mother, a Commonwealth cemetery with Jewish soldiers lying next to Christian ones (you can see it in the gravestones) and of course Tyne Cot Cemetery with its impressive wall and the names of more than 35,000 British soldiers who are still missing. I wanted to show people that more than 500,000 young men lost their lives in my country ! We are obliged to pay tribute to them and we must also sympathize with the many young Germans who perished in Flanders Fields.

Today I had a chat with one of the judges. Werner is a very honest man. He said that maybe he and his companions were wrong. "Now, after you have said this, I have a different feeling", he admitted.

I agree with you, Ned, that we must try and put ourselves in the position of a person seeing the film for the first time. However, it does not mean that he is always right. I myself have been a judge many times and I am sure that I was not always right. That's human.

Are you happy with judges'comments ? No !No, after all, I am happy with the results, but not with the judges' comments. I have three films that received four stars. That's wonderful, isn't it ? One of the judges'comments on a Belgian film made by one of my friends was positive for 100 %. The report was very encouraging. Mine was negative for 80 % and it was very discouraging. This forum is "Speakers Corner" of the IAC. We may, no we must express our feelings here even if other friends don't like what is said.

Now I am very sad. I am very disillusioned. I feel depressed. I am in sackcloth and ashes. I am in a soup. I am down-hearted.
I don't have the courage anymore to make films.
I thought of taking part in the AMPS festival with my film "Will Ye Go to Flanders", but I don't have the courage anymore. Help me !!!

Please, I don't mind if you attack me. Tell me if you don't agree with me. Friends should be able to tell each other everything without insulting them.
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Post by stingman » Sat Mar 29, 2008 6:31 pm

Willy said
"Now I am very sad. I am very disillusioned. I feel depressed. I am in sackcloth and ashes. I am in a soup. I am down-hearted.
I don't have the courage anymore to make films.
I thought of taking part in the AMPS festival with my film "Will Ye Go to Flanders", but I don't have the courage anymore. Help me !!!

Please, I don't mind if you attack me. Tell me if you don't agree with me. Friends should be able to tell each other everything without insulting them."

I`ll attack you in a kind way Willy! Your other films got alot of stars. The one you liked the most got a few stars. BE GRATEFULL :shock: :shock: :shock: :!: It`s proberly more then the rest of us would get! Be thankfull that the judges thought that two of your films were great and the other crap!

Rant over! You make good films. We don`t (or shouldn`t) make them to win prizes or awards (that is a bonus). We make them because we enjoy making them and to tell our audience certain important facts about the world we live in.

Keep making films. You're good :roll: better than most of us. We always get disillusioned after a bad film. I do, and still am, but when the time is right, I`ll make another film. When you get kicked hard in the nuts. It takes along time for it to heal.

You know me and judges and my stories of them not even knowing the rules of their own competition! I`m glad I didn`t enter. It seems to be the most bad feeling we`ve had on this forum compared with other years. If you all did well then this thread would be as dead as a doodoo!
Keep moaning you lot, it makes good reading!

Be good all and PULL YOUR SOCKS UP!!
Stingman
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