Opening credits - club & personal logos

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Dave Watterson
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Opening credits - club & personal logos

Post by Dave Watterson »

I am struck by how many French and Belgian non-commercial films begin with an elaborate club title, often with a fanfare. This seems to be used whether it is a film made jointly by the club members as a whole or whether it is simply one person in the club who has made it.

There are also some individuals in Britain who proudly announce their productions with a flashy logo.

Why?

In the commercial world it may make sense. We identify a certain type and quality of movie with the 20th Century Fox searchlights or the Paramount Mountain or the Columbia statue - even though those studios are owned by various conglomerates now. On TV we identify a certain type of work with BBC, ITV, HBO, Fox and so on.

But few amateur film makers have made enough films and have a wide enough circulation to make that kind of impression on audiences.

Dave
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stingman
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Post by stingman »

This will be a good topic to read the answers our readers will reply about.

Alot of our films take ideas and add to them from other films, so why shouldn`t we do the same with our titles and logos?

I cannot stand filmmakers who don`t use a nice logo or decent titles. These are all part of the filmmaking and watching of films experience. In fact, when a film doesn`t have a good logo or titles that stand out, I think that they are a bit of a cheap skate and have made the film on the quick! `Flashey` logos are saying that were out there, we want to be seen, we are proud of what we do and proud of this film. You are making a big presents with a big logo. You are not saying `hello` but `HELLO!`.
No with titles. Titles are a way to gradually tell people what it`s all about. They are a little bit like a shop window, inviting you in. Take `standard titles`. Full on and then fade out. CRAP! How boring is that! I used to do that and found that my films just had a boring start! I got bored. I wanted to be a bit different, and make my films stand out a bit more on the quality front. They give the film idenity. For example. James Bond. Look at THOSE titles! They give the film idenity and excitment! And they last 3 and a half minutes! What if they just faded in and out.
My titles now fade in and are different colours to suite the film. They move onto the screen different ways, again to suite the film.
I hate people who spend all there time on making the film and then the titles are just CRAP. Titles are part of the film. Be different and make them interesting.
I cannot stress this enougth. A nice Logo and titles that are different will add a new dimention to your time. And if done right, it will add a few points in a competition.
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Souterman
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Post by Souterman »

I must admit that I like to see nice titles as well although not of the filmmaker until the end if at all. When it comes to competions then it's debatable whether the filmmakers name should be shown at all. F
Roy

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Post by Roy »

What's wrong with having a logo. I think it shows that the filmaker is aware that a a good slick Logo is a curtain raiser for his film. It might make the viewer aware that the filmaker knows what he is about and if he has taken the trouble to create a logo that is different from others, he may possibly of taken the trouble to make a watchable film. Admittedly on some occassions the logo and attractive novelty title might be the best part of the film. However, I think the filmaker should think of the reactions of a non cine audiance and not always be concerned what amateur judges think. I think that a good opening logo followed by interesting credits with a watchable film to follow makes an average non cine club audiance forget that they are watching an Amateur film production. Roy
Michael Slowe
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Opening Credits

Post by Michael Slowe »

I suspect Dave is enjoying being a little provocative here but I know what he means.

I cringe sometimes when I see the most elaborate logo and opening titles that I know won't be appropriate to the film that follows. Generally I suspect this merely (unfairly?) from the name of the producer but Stingman is right when he says that these pyrotechnics should match the mood and style of what is to follow.

Personally I adhere to the old fashioned static title, faded or mixed with a credit but I take the most extraordinary care to select the right background, generally part of the film itself, suitable font and colouring of the letters and most important of all the right size. Many of the fancy titles are far to big in the frame and the wrong colour for a good image on video. Also the quality of the software used is hugely important. The lettering has to really bite into the image and I must say I am not impressed by the rather weak, wishy washy lettering often seen. Simple titles and a good film everytime for choice rather than incredible logos, movement, drama and a lousy film! Dave will tell you, no extra marks or plaudits if they are not appropriate.
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Post by Peter »

I used to have a "ding dong" type flashy logo which came up at the start of everything I made - immediately before the titles proper - but I decided it was a bit pretentious so I got rid of it.

I agree with Michael that the title should be high quality, the right size, and appropriate. I know some of mine were a bit too big, which was pointed out. I now often just use a black background with a good quality white font, or similar over an appropriate still frame or a suitably steady video shot. (Not that I do too much editing these days).

Its the same with any sub-titles which may convey the name of something - use a small and suitable font.
Peter
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Post by stingman »

So a mixed responce! No problem. That`s what it`s all about!

An example of 20th Century Fox. (Chosen because it`s my favorite and the best!)

From the beginning to about 15 years ago, 20th Centry Fox (20th Fox) showed the same Logo at the beginning of the films. It did change abit , as Logos do, to modernise it abit.
Now they have the same Logo, but they alter it abit in line with the film. Because I have a passion for 20th Fox, it amuses me on whats going to happen next. For example. The film `The Day After Tomorrow`, ((thats about climate change) and a good HollyWood Blockbuster) The 20th Fox would be very grey and look like it`s got Ice all over it. After the Logo music has finished, The Logo may pan off like being on top of a hill and just go out of shot,like it was part of the landscape.
So in my example, The same Logo has been used, but it has been altered and added to to fit into the film.
Or would you all like your Logos to be the following.... `Joe Bloggs Film Company`, in white letters fading in and out!

I know you would not do the 20th Fox thing on a documentry or Interview! But shurly ANYTHING is better then the crappy Joe Bloggs Text!
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Peter
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Post by Peter »

I wonder when they will change it to ... 21st Century Fox??????
Peter
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Post by FILM THURSO »

Fox won't change the name. I spoke to them about this back in 1995 and they said they had their plans which seems to have been Fox Searchlight. Their name is iconic and one of the most famous logos on the planet. It's a little like the Daleks in Doctor Who- you can tweek them but outrightly change them and you will be EXTERMINATED!
We have a very destinct logo and fanfare. It has just been modified for 2008 using new images from our Picture House collection and a blue screen shot. It still ends with our 'Ganion' badge against the blue sky. It might be changed back to the plane black background although if you watch our stuff on youtube you'll see the blue sky version at the beginning and the classic black on the tail. The main elements of the logo are not permitted to change. The preceeding shots can be changed and more changes will come as we work on more effects to bring old color photos of the Picture House after which we are named, are brought to life. I think there are 5 or 6 versions of our logo so far but they all end with the same image.
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Post by Stu H »

I don't think it is true any longer that we identify a particular type of film with a particular studio. And certainly a particular logo in front of a film is no guarantee of quality. It is however true that you know what you'll get if you see the Jerry Bruckheimer logo at the start of a movie.

The problem with many logos for amateur movies is not that they are "flashy" or "slick", but rather that they are cheesy in the same way that all those awful transitions like page curls and spinning cubes were. A logo should try to communicate something about the group presenting the film. Another problem with logo sequences is that often a group will abandon one sequence completely in favour of a new design (often equally cheesy). When you are watching one film it is no big deal, but if you are watching a collection of films it can be quite jarring to see three or four different logos from the same club in one night.

Don't go thinking that I think club films shouldn't have logos at the start, I do. I just think they should be calmer, less showy, and better designed. Build them to last, that way there is the potential for them to evolve.

You could always do what United Artists do, and retrospectively apply you new logo to all your existing productions.

PS
I love the way the Paramount logo dissolves to a real mountain at the start of the Indian Jones movies.
"Nobody knows anything." - William Goldman
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FILM THURSO
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Post by FILM THURSO »

Our logo is a bit 'big impact' with transitons but they are fade-thrus between 3 still images and a live-action shot inside our old local cinema but the final shot is always the same PHF logo which is done in a nice classic but not over the top style. We have changed the opener 5 times but the elements are all from the same old cinema. The fanfare is always the same as musical identity helps audience association with our productions. We've been working towards a fully live-action scene putting an assembling audience into the 1983 color interior shots of the former Picture House Cinema but so far we've only got one live element in it.
One thing we feel can help a film is to restyle the logo in the theme of the main picture like in Edward Scissorhands the Fox logo is light in blue with snow falling. In our monochrome films our logo is also monochrome and "Seven Shades" our little silent picture has the 'old film' scratches and jitter effect to match the rest of the films look.
Roy

Post by Roy »

When you read all the comments made on all the subjects in this Forum it just goes to prove that ONE MANS MEAT IS ANOTHER MANS POISON I wonder if we shall ever see anyone changing their mind about something after reading someone elses opinion. I doubt it, but I live in hope. Roy
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Post by FILM THURSO »

What does that mean? Perhaps a reason many people don't change their ideas for other folks opinion is that the opinion hasn't been convincing enough or simply delivered in a way that get's the back up! Additionally people may not change their ideas simply because an opinion may be voiced without full knowledge or understanding of the reasons any film makers has for the choices within their work. That in itself could be a failing within their film to convey the intended message. (kind of circular arguement this). :D
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Stephen
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Post by Stephen »

Roy did write:-

When you read all the comments made on all the subjects in this Forum it just goes to prove that ONE MANS MEAT IS ANOTHER MANS POISON I wonder if we shall ever see anyone changing their mind about something after reading someone elses opinion. I doubt it, but I live in hope.
*******************************************************

Surely the essence of why this list exists is exactly that ... the rich variety of people's views on just about any subject, hopefully, focussing on filmaking ! but hey .... who's counting?..

The number of times I have reconsidered or changed something because of the new knowledge gained from this list and it's amazing membership.....well... I've lost count !!!!


Surely that is a priviledge within itself...


Getting back to this thread, for example, helped me decide the outcome of a newly designed 'upbeat' logo. To use it on a film that was not really appropriate because of its subject content.....but it has spurred me on to re-design the logo in which it can be slightly altered to best fit multiple film subject content


I would be lost without the list, I need my twice, thrice, errrr... wonder what comes next?... daily fix !!!

but the list does need to grow and that is up to membership....

after all the IAC, is only as good as the membership




just a thought....
Stephen

Film making is not a matter of Life and Death
It's much more important than that.
Roy

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Post by Roy »

Once again I should of made my comment more clearer for those who misconstru what I say. I am talking mainly of the equipment they use to get the end result. I find that a lot of people are very dogmatic about the own methods of editing and burning equipment. Peoples opinions are great to read but not when they claim that their system is the best when they have never tried anything different and condemn other methods and equipment simply because what they have read in magazines etc. As for altering filmaking style itself by what you read in the forum,that doesn't make ther film very original in concept. Having said all that, and accepting that the average reader will be in denial, I would point out that this dogmatic approach is not only practised in our hobby, but is the general attitude adopted by nearly every institution in this Country starting with politicians and going down through all the professions. I for one don't like it. Roy
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