Limits

A forum for sharing views on the art of film, video and AV sequence making as well as on competitions, judging and festivals.
Fraught

Re: Limits

Post by Fraught » Mon Feb 27, 2006 1:40 pm

This debate is turning out into an argument. LOL...

I think that some clubs do have some very old fashioned views on films and
content. I once had a film i made criticised over the way I shot an overweight
guy running... saying that i should have chosen a different angle to give
him more fluidity... how absurd is that comment!? What's wrong with the way
a fat guy runs?! LOL...
I think if you chose to film content that may not be suitable for all, then
as long as you make the viewer aware before they watch, then they have no
one to blame but themselves if they are offended... as you have given them
the facts and the choice at the start.

Ps... you can download and view 'The Book of Joshua' at http://www.romskye.co.uk/english/home.htm

:-)

"Peter" <P@c.com> wrote:
"Dave Watterson" <david.filmsocs@virgin.net> wrote:

Cool it, guys!

Debating ideas is fine, but let's not start criticising each other. It
is
a fine line, but an important one.

If we stick to our topic of what you, personally, would or would not be
prepared
to put into your films we will, I suspect, get an interesting range of
replies.


I don't disagree, but the trouble is that we have a blatant racist making
these posts. I don't mnd the fact that he is extremely ignorant, has poor
English and can't spell (we all make some mistakes here), but he is a "little
englishman" in the worst sense. (I deliberately avoided capitals within
those
quotation marks).

He even accuses me of being a Muslim, simply because I have exposed his
racist
hysteria. I would rather be a Muslim any day, than a narrow minded bigoted
"little english comedy (yes, he is a joke) film-maker."

He is bringing this message board into disrepute.

What is or is not acceptable to clubs and festivals is a separate issue.
In those cases you join a group and have to play by their rules ... or
work
within their system to amend their rules.

Most hobby clubs that I know in any field, not just video, tend to be organised
and run by older, slightly more conseravtive (small c) people. Those are
the kind of people prepared to do the work of running clubs. What matters
then is how much you let their comments worry you. I'm usually inclined
to accept all the good things and suffer the bad ones as the price of being
in the group.

And let's not lose sight of the difference between theory and practice.
In
theory (in principle) I don't like any censorship and don't mind porn.
In
the wider world I would prefer people to be able to accept or reject porn
etc as they might accept or reject some foods. If it is to their taste
fine.
If not, not.

But in practice I am usually careful to fit in with the majority - unless
there is a very powerful reason not to in some specific case.

Dave (the meek and mild)


Peter

Re: Limits

Post by Peter » Mon Feb 27, 2006 6:31 pm

"Fraught" <info@fraught.net> wrote:
This debate is turning out into an argument. LOL...

I think that some clubs do have some very old fashioned views on films and
content. I once had a film i made criticised over the way I shot an overweight
guy running... saying that i should have chosen a different angle to give
him more fluidity... how absurd is that comment!? What's wrong with the
way
a fat guy runs?! LOL...
I recognise that this is a more common experience.
I think if you chose to film content that may not be suitable for all, then
as long as you make the viewer aware before they watch, then they have no
one to blame but themselves if they are offended... as you have given them
the facts and the choice at the start.
I'm all for this, i.e. giving people the information first and then the
choice.
Ps... you can download and view 'The Book of Joshua' at http://www.romskye.co.uk/english/home.htm

:-)

ron jarrett

Re: Limits

Post by ron jarrett » Mon Feb 27, 2006 8:12 pm

I was quite amazed to read this thread, I have just past 70 and I am told
by kind friends that I look twenty years younger. I dont feel old and I am
'up' on the technology of film making. Our last club film had swearing, it
fitted the story and the actors themselves ,consumate professional amateurs,
suggested that in some places the language was too stilted and proper and
did not fit the scene.
My own last film which recieved a Bronze Plus at BIAFF and 13th in the Top
Ten Melbourne has a scene with a young man in the nude, with a brief full
frontal and a long nude rear scene. Having discussed with the young actor
the need for the nudity he totally agreed and with a restricted crew and
the leading lady the scene took several hours to shoot with good humour and
NO smut.
I want to shoot films with reality and realism, up to date and entertaining
to watch, my next film and I am working on the script has a storyline involving
a young gay man. I hope it will be well recieved, I have several actors from
the workshop I use express an interest in the role. That is heartening I
just hope the competition judges, however old they are, keep and open mind
when doing their job.

Ron







"Peter" <B@D.com> wrote:
"Fraught" <info@fraught.net> wrote:

This debate is turning out into an argument. LOL...

I think that some clubs do have some very old fashioned views on films
and
content. I once had a film i made criticised over the way I shot an overweight
guy running... saying that i should have chosen a different angle to give
him more fluidity... how absurd is that comment!? What's wrong with the
way
a fat guy runs?! LOL...

I recognise that this is a more common experience.

I think if you chose to film content that may not be suitable for all,
then
as long as you make the viewer aware before they watch, then they have
no
one to blame but themselves if they are offended... as you have given them
the facts and the choice at the start.


I'm all for this, i.e. giving people the information first and then the
choice.


Ps... you can download and view 'The Book of Joshua' at http://www.romskye.co.uk/english/home.htm

:-)

Dave Watterson

Re: Limits + Hit-and-Run filming

Post by Dave Watterson » Mon Feb 27, 2006 9:17 pm

Peter and Ian - please will you both stop now?

Whenever discussions on the net get personal they risk going too far. People
read and understand words differently and what may strike one person as mild
and appropriate can strike another as cruel and vicious.

You have both made your views clear.

Can we stick to talking about films now ... where you can both offer a lot
of useful ideas? We do need film makers with bright ideas and different
outlooks to contribute to this forum. I hope you will both keep writing -
and don't worry about mistrypes or spoiling errors ... so long as people
understand the ideas that's all I care about.


For example ... a technique often used by indie film makers is "hit and run"
filming. Rather than go through the fiddle-faddle of getting permissions
they just turn up where they want to shoot, set up quickly, grab the shots
and go before officialdom can act. I am referring to places where the public
usually have access - including parks, shopping malls, on trains and so on.
Some of those are not "public places" in the formal, legal sense.

Is this something an amateur film maker should try? Or already does!

Dave

Fraught

Re: Limits + Hit-and-Run filming

Post by Fraught » Mon Feb 27, 2006 11:30 pm

The 'Hit and Run' style is basically all i've ever done! LOL... i've never
got permission in the past! Does that make me a rebel?

Its funny... i was looking back at some films that i made in the mid 90's,
which include lots of scenes of people running about in public with fake
guns. Not toy guns... fake/replica guns. We never got permission, we just
did it. The thought of trying to do the same thing in todays climate scares
the life out of me! I can see the SWAT cars pulling up, and the Helicopters
swooping in as i type this!


"Dave Watterson" <david.filmsocs@virgin.net> wrote:
Peter and Ian - please will you both stop now?

Whenever discussions on the net get personal they risk going too far. People
read and understand words differently and what may strike one person as
mild
and appropriate can strike another as cruel and vicious.

You have both made your views clear.

Can we stick to talking about films now ... where you can both offer a lot
of useful ideas? We do need film makers with bright ideas and different
outlooks to contribute to this forum. I hope you will both keep writing
-
and don't worry about mistrypes or spoiling errors ... so long as people
understand the ideas that's all I care about.


For example ... a technique often used by indie film makers is "hit and
run"
filming. Rather than go through the fiddle-faddle of getting permissions
they just turn up where they want to shoot, set up quickly, grab the shots
and go before officialdom can act. I am referring to places where the public
usually have access - including parks, shopping malls, on trains and so
on.
Some of those are not "public places" in the formal, legal sense.

Is this something an amateur film maker should try? Or already does!

Dave

Dave Watterson

Re: Limits + Hit-and-Run filming

Post by Dave Watterson » Wed Mar 01, 2006 7:09 am

"Fraught" <info@fraught.net> wrote:
Its funny... i was looking back at some films that i made in the mid 90's,
which include lots of scenes of people running about in public with fake
guns. Not toy guns... fake/replica guns. We never got permission, we just
did it. The thought of trying to do the same thing in todays climate scares
the life out of me! I can see the SWAT cars pulling up, and the Helicopters
swooping in as i type this!
Wow, yes. I'd been thinking in terms of gruff policemen and park-keepers,
but you are right. A casual bit of filming might easily result in an armed
response team screaming in on your film location.

Decades ago I got in trouble throwing a very unlife-like dummy in a school
uniform from the top of a tower-block school building for a movie - even
though we made a point of having our cameras and crew as visible as possible,
and did it several times to get the shot. Maybe the computer game Lemmings
was around then and people thought ...

Finchley Cine Society also have a story about doing a moving car scene on
a borrowed low-loader lorry. They thought they were playing safe, allowing
the actors to act and not worry about driving. The cops stopped them because
the camera crew were not fixed in place with safety-harnesses.

Dave

Fraught

Re: Limits + Hit-and-Run filming

Post by Fraught » Wed Mar 01, 2006 8:26 am

Its funny how times change, as well as your own change in common sensibilities.
I filmed a car chase sequence a long time ago... our camera man was poked
through the sun roof of my Vauxhall Astra. I wouldn't do that sort of thing
now. Just like in 'A Cold Summer', we actually stuck fireworks to ourselves
to simulate explosions and gun fire. I know alot of people thought it was
dangerous and stupid, and in retrospect they're all probably right... but
at the time we did extensive tests to make sure that we wouldn't get hurt.
I actually wrote an article for AFVM back in the 90's on the making of 'A
Cold Summer', and was asked to change the wording regarding the use of fireworks.
So i mentioned the other technique i used in a previous film regarding filling
party poppers with talc.

Its funny the risks you take to make the film that you want....


"Dave Watterson" <david.filmsocs@virgin.net> wrote:
Wow, yes. I'd been thinking in terms of gruff policemen and park-keepers,
but you are right. A casual bit of filming might easily result in an armed
response team screaming in on your film location.

Decades ago I got in trouble throwing a very unlife-like dummy in a school
uniform from the top of a tower-block school building for a movie - even
though we made a point of having our cameras and crew as visible as possible,
and did it several times to get the shot. Maybe the computer game Lemmings
was around then and people thought ...

Finchley Cine Society also have a story about doing a moving car scene on
a borrowed low-loader lorry. They thought they were playing safe, allowing
the actors to act and not worry about driving. The cops stopped them because
the camera crew were not fixed in place with safety-harnesses.

Dave

Davy

Re: Limits + Hit-and-Run filming example

Post by Davy » Wed Mar 01, 2006 10:28 pm

In a recent minute film I've made we used real hunting rifles... I did check
if no bullets were in the barrels. It was out of the hunting season. We didn't
experience any troubles. This time the police didn't catch us ;-) LOL

You can have a look at it if you want to...

http://www.focusvaartland.be/jagersinternet.wmv

translated:

-over here, rabbit tracks.
-these are no rabbit tracks.

-over here, pork tracks.
-these are no pork tracks.

-over here, dear tracks!
-these are no dear tracks!

-wich tracks could it be?

enjoy.

Davy
The 'Hit and Run' style is basically all i've ever done! LOL... i've never
got permission in the past! Does that make me a rebel?

Its funny... i was looking back at some films that i made in the mid 90's,
which include lots of scenes of people running about in public with fake
guns. Not toy guns... fake/replica guns. We never got permission, we just
did it. The thought of trying to do the same thing in todays climate scares
the life out of me! I can see the SWAT cars pulling up, and the Helicopters
swooping in as i type this!

Dave Watterson

Re: Limits + Hit-and-Run filming example

Post by Dave Watterson » Wed Mar 01, 2006 11:18 pm

"Davy" <davyvdbergh@yahoo.com> wrote:
You can have a look at it if you want to...
http://www.focusvaartland.be/jagersinternet.wmv
I did - and I laughed.

It is a bit of a groaner as we say ... that is a film where you have been
led to expect one thing and are given another - but you can appreciate the
clever way you were fooled. You groan partly because the joke is not very
good and partly because you allowed yourself to be fooled.

I suspect this is a film that would go down well with the "club" type of
judges.

Is it "hit and run"? Were you doing anything illegal? Don't answer if you
might incriminate yourself! You never know who is reading these boards.

Dave

davy

Re: Limits + Hit-and-Run filming example

Post by davy » Thu Mar 02, 2006 9:49 am

Is it "hit and run"? Were you doing anything illegal? Don't answer if you
might incriminate yourself! You never know who is reading these boards.
No one had a licence to bear these weapons. And we had to shoot between trains
passing by at high speed. It was shot about 50 foot from a busy road. If
we'd get caught we'd probably loose someone's (expensive) rifles.

Cheers Davy

Post Reply