About the filming rules...

A forum for sharing views on the art of film, video and AV sequence making as well as on competitions, judging and festivals.
Willy Van der Linden

Re: About the filming rules... (A Belated Comment!)

Post by Willy Van der Linden » Mon Mar 06, 2006 10:59 am

"Davy" <Davyvdbergh@yahoo.com> wrote:

Dear Michael,
I have seen some of your films and I must say they are wonderful!
Then when you get the only comment "It's out of focus for a second" I ask
myself have you seen the movie
or did you just look at the focus. I have been a Optical Service Technician
for almost 6 years. I do know what "out of focus" is (Probably better than
any
judge in Belgium) But I don't even think about a reshoot. like: this is
the
story of my film, now tell me something I DON'T already know.
I've always been specialised in digital systems. What
I want to hear from a judge is about the story, the creativity or the shots
taken but no technical explanation (in wich they are probably wrong anyway).
I wouldn't mind if one of the judges payed attention to this but not the
whole panel. Maybe I underestimate the task of being a judge (probably)!
Hello Michael, It's good to read that Davy has written that we have enjoyed
your films very much. I already told you some time ago.

Yes, Davy is a technician, but he's against strict rules and he hates accuracy
in work. He doesn't like paper work for instance ... (He's written : "I
don't even think about a reshoot" See above) I'm different. Sometimes I take
shots five or six times. That's exaggerated I know. When editing the film
I always have problems ...

Also as a chairman I'm a bit like that. I am for suppleness, flexibility,
but also for strict rules. When a guest is showing and talking about his
film then I can't stand that members of my club are having a chat about other
things at the same time. Then I get nervous. We must always feel respect
for the qualities of other filmakers. I know that sometimes members say that
I am a bore and that I sometimes behave like a school teacher. I think that
times have changed and that I should be able to accept nonchalance. That's
a pity. Luckily I still have a very good treasurer. He's 75 I think ... He's
not careless... On the contrary ! That's good.

Davy says : "What I want to hear from a judge is about the story, the creativity
..." In my club we always stimulate creativity. That's why I have also shown
Michael's films. "Still Life" for instance is a good example of artistic
creativity. Moreover I always ask the judges to tell my filmmakers what they
think about the story, not only about the technical qualities. Davy made
his very first film last January only a few days before the competition.
Reason : he had been too busy. His film was called "Geocaching". He didn't
win a gold or silver award with it, but all viewers enjoyed it. The judges
were also very positive and told him that his story could have been stronger.


Davy told us that he doesn't like competitions. Last weekend I attended our
regional festival. About 80 films were screened. Also Davy's one minute movies,
but he preferred staying at home. The last few decennia my club was always
there with an impressive group of about fifteen to twenty filmmakers. I must
admit : the judging system in regional and national competitions in Belgium
is really disgusting. But at least we could enjoy good films. This time I
felt a bit lonesome. We were only nine. I myself have a very bad experience
: In Belgium the five judges are obliged to give their marks after each film.
Three years ago the following thing happened at the national competition
: The results for my "Masquerade" were something like 84, 85, 78, 77, 77.
They were announced immediately on the screen. But the man who operated the
projection system wrote 75 instead if 85. Judge number 2 did not agree with
it. He told the secretary (behind the scene) that he had given Willy 85,
not 75. There was some discussion, but they didn't want to change my marks
anymore because the results had already been announced in the festivity hall.
I was told this by one of those five judges. I think that I can say that
I am not extremely competitive which does not mean that I am unhappy when
winning an award. For instance I always do my utmost to encourage excellent
filmmakers to take part in festivals. BIAFF is a good example. Dave Watterson
knows that. But I hope that you understand that I felt very frustrated after
that national competition three years ago. Fairplay is something typically
English, but in Belgium ... Perhaps you already know about the scandal in
our soccer competition. Sometimes I feel ashamed to be a Belgian.

Anyway I think that we must continue promoting our festivals. These are the
forums where we can enjoy lots of films. In some way I don't understand Davy.
He is a real film freak. So where would he like to show his films then ?
I know that he asked Atta Chui to show his one minute movie on the IAC-website.
I appreciate it. But I would also appreciate it if he would be willing to
show his films at festivals in Belgium, in England or anywhere else.

Willy Van der Linden

Re: About the filming rules... (A Belated Comment!)

Post by Willy Van der Linden » Mon Mar 06, 2006 10:59 am

"Davy" <Davyvdbergh@yahoo.com> wrote:

Dear Michael,
I have seen some of your films and I must say they are wonderful!
Then when you get the only comment "It's out of focus for a second" I ask
myself have you seen the movie
or did you just look at the focus. I have been a Optical Service Technician
for almost 6 years. I do know what "out of focus" is (Probably better than
any
judge in Belgium) But I don't even think about a reshoot. like: this is
the
story of my film, now tell me something I DON'T already know.
I've always been specialised in digital systems. What
I want to hear from a judge is about the story, the creativity or the shots
taken but no technical explanation (in wich they are probably wrong anyway).
I wouldn't mind if one of the judges payed attention to this but not the
whole panel. Maybe I underestimate the task of being a judge (probably)!
Hello Michael, It's good to read that Davy has written that we have enjoyed
your films very much. I already told you some time ago.

Yes, Davy is a technician, but he's against strict rules and he hates accuracy
in work. He doesn't like paper work for instance ... (He's written : "I
don't even think about a reshoot" See above) I'm different. Sometimes I take
shots five or six times. That's exaggerated I know. When editing the film
I always have problems ...

Also as a chairman I'm a bit like that. I am for suppleness, flexibility,
but also for strict rules. When a guest is showing and talking about his
film then I can't stand that members of my club are having a chat about other
things at the same time. Then I get nervous. We must always feel respect
for the qualities of other filmakers. I know that sometimes members say that
I am a bore and that I sometimes behave like a school teacher. I think that
times have changed and that I should be able to accept nonchalance. That's
a pity. Luckily I still have a very good treasurer. He's 75 I think ... He's
not careless... On the contrary ! That's good.

Davy says : "What I want to hear from a judge is about the story, the creativity
..." In my club we always stimulate creativity. That's why I have also shown
Michael's films. "Still Life" for instance is a good example of artistic
creativity. Moreover I always ask the judges to tell my filmmakers what they
think about the story, not only about the technical qualities. Davy made
his very first film last January only a few days before the competition.
Reason : he had been too busy. His film was called "Geocaching". He didn't
win a gold or silver award with it, but all viewers enjoyed it. The judges
were also very positive and told him that his story could have been stronger.


Davy told us that he doesn't like competitions. Last weekend I attended our
regional festival. About 80 films were screened. Also Davy's one minute movies,
but he preferred staying at home. The last few decennia my club was always
there with an impressive group of about fifteen to twenty filmmakers. I must
admit : the judging system in regional and national competitions in Belgium
is really disgusting. But at least we could enjoy good films. This time I
felt a bit lonesome. We were only nine. I myself have a very bad experience
: In Belgium the five judges are obliged to give their marks after each film.
Three years ago the following thing happened at the national competition
: The results for my "Masquerade" were something like 84, 85, 78, 77, 77.
They were announced immediately on the screen. But the man who operated the
projection system wrote 75 instead if 85. Judge number 2 did not agree with
it. He told the secretary (behind the scene) that he had given Willy 85,
not 75. There was some discussion, but they didn't want to change my marks
anymore because the results had already been announced in the festivity hall.
I was told this by one of those five judges. I think that I can say that
I am not extremely competitive which does not mean that I am unhappy when
winning an award. For instance I always do my utmost to encourage excellent
filmmakers to take part in festivals. BIAFF is a good example. Dave Watterson
knows that. But I hope that you understand that I felt very frustrated after
that national competition three years ago. Fairplay is something typically
English, but in Belgium ... Perhaps you already know about the scandal in
our soccer competition. Sometimes I feel ashamed to be a Belgian.

Anyway I think that we must continue promoting our festivals. These are the
forums where we can enjoy lots of films. In some way I don't understand Davy.
He is a real film freak. So where would he like to show his films then ?
I know that he asked Atta Chui to show his one minute movie on the IAC-website.
I appreciate it. But I would also appreciate it if he would be willing to
show his films at festivals in Belgium, in England or anywhere else.

Dave Watterson

Re: About the filming rules... (A Belated Comment!)

Post by Dave Watterson » Mon Mar 06, 2006 12:42 pm

Willy Van der Linden was so concerned that he wrote the message twice! My
email system does that sometimes and I don't know why ... computers and their
networks are not "house trained" like good dogs.

I know from experience that Willy champions all kinds of creative movie making.
The more we hear about the club he and Davy are in the more fascinating it
seems. It is as if they were novel writers gradually revealing more and more
about the club and its members. Can you make us all "country members"? [A
British term sometimes used for people who join a club but cannot often attend
because they live far away. They usually pay a cheaper membership fee.]

Grandiose statement coming up - prepare to ridicule it: -

The dilemma in all art is how best to combine free creativity and the rules
which define that art.

For example some North American natives make wonderful, beautiful patterns
of coloured sand as part of their religious ceremonies - then wipe them away.
Is their art the same as that of the great painters (many of them Belgian!)
whose works we enjoy in art galleries? Is relative permanence important so
that the work can be seen by many people?

Is poetry with no rhyme and no rhythm pattern still poetry. Or is it just
words?

And in the practical world of a movie club: if there are no rules is it still
a club or just a crowd?

It appears to me that artists always have to find ways to make their statements
within some form of constraints. In the same way it seems to me that club
members should always try to express themselves but within the rules of the
club.

As for festivals ...

None is perfect, but not correcting an administrative mistake is stupid.
That must have been a bitter pill to swallow. On the positive side festivals
are a chance to see a great variety of work - and if you are good enough
to have an entry selected - then they are a chance to see your work in the
context of others.

In the next few months I am very much looking forward to attending our British
BIAFF festival, Croatia's Minute Movie festival, Austria's Festival of Nations,
UNICA's world festival, the British Cotswold festival and the Channel Islands'
Guernsey Lily festival. I find them exciting, inspiring - and great fun.

If you have never tried a festival - get along to one or two. Enjoy what
is good about them and ignore anything that is bad ... a bit as you have
to do with life in general ...

Dave (philosophical) Watterson

PS If this is even less coherent than usual it is because I was up all night
watching the Oscars.

Willy Van der Linden

Re: About the filming rules... (A Belated Comment!)

Post by Willy Van der Linden » Mon Mar 06, 2006 8:25 pm

"Dave Watterson" (philosophical)<david.filmsocs@virgin.net> wrote:
For example some North American natives make wonderful, beautiful patterns
of coloured sand as part of their religious ceremonies - then wipe them
away.
Is their art the same as that of the great painters (many of them Belgian!)
whose works we enjoy in art galleries? Is relative permanence important
so
that the work can be seen by many people?
Many thanks for your philosophical reflections, Dave, but I'm sure that you
agree with the following thing : We do not make films as part of our religious
ceremonies and we do not wipe our films away. In fact you told us : we make
films for fun, but also for film shows and festivals.
Yesterday we could hear the audience laugh when watching films at our regional
festival. That's great, isn't it ?

Michael Slowe

Re: About the filming rules... (A Belated Comment!)

Post by Michael Slowe » Mon Mar 06, 2006 8:38 pm

"Davy" <Davyvdbergh@yahoo.com> wrote:
point of view. The Blairwich was never been done before and the terror on
the girls face was beyond acting. I seemed real! But it was an unsharp vhs
bad lighted picture! just concider this scene. you could give 10/10 for
this
for how strong this scene is or you could give 0/10 cause of the image quality.
This is just the point I'm trying to make. It depends on what you can do.
I want to shoot some images for a future film tomorrow but I was out testing
today and noticed that my camera just isn't capable to shoot this dark (at
night)so I have to "suck something out of my thumb"(Belgian expression)
by
tomorrow when the actors come. I have a cheap DV cam. Images are good but
sometimes it's difficult (I don't even have a ring to adjust focus). I just
don't have the money to spend on expensive camera stuff. I'm going to build
a
I want to hear from a judge is about the story, the creativity or the shots
taken but no technical explanation (in wich they are probably wrong anyway).
I wouldn't mind if one of the judges payed attention to this but not the
whole panel. Maybe I underestimate the task of being a judge (probably)!

Greetings Davy

By the way: what does "Belated" mean?
Davy, firstly Belated means better late than never! My reply was delayed
(because I only just saw your post).
Your concerns about the pictures that you can obtain with the kit you have
should not be any problem. It's not the quality of picture that really matters
but the 'form' and construction of the piece as well as the mood it creates.
The judges should be considering the effect that the film has on them (individually)
and not nit pick about what shots may have been slightly out of focus - that
is bad judging. The story told by Willy is horrific. Marking films out of
ten before all have been viewed is ridiculous. Personally I judge by comparing
the films with each other using the criteria mentioned above, numbers for
aspects such as pictures, sound etc just don't come into it as far as I am
concerned. That's not to say that you should not photograph the best way
you can and I suggest that you may be able to raise the gain level on your
camera for your night shots. If you can't then try and get hold of a hand
held light of some sort but don't forget to do a white balance otherwise
the colour of the picture might be wrong.

You are right Davy, let the judge decide purely subjectively (Dave Watterson
can interpret for you if required!!)

Keep making the films you want to make but put them in festivals and competitions
because they may give pleasure to others and provide a guide to you as to
the effect your films have on the audience.

Michael Slowe.

Cinema For Thurso Group

Re: About the filming rules... (A Belated Comment!)

Post by Cinema For Thurso Group » Mon Mar 06, 2006 10:04 pm

say that "The Blair Witch Project' was one of the worst commercial films
I have seenin a cinema, and I see a great many in a year. The idea was
fine
but it was so badly made. I know the budget was tiny but I honestly think
I could have done it better - I repeat that I have nothing against the theme
or the script even though I am one of the older people you refer to!
Okay I missed (or did I?) Blair Witch so I can't comment directly on that
film but I could pick up the whether it was well made or not. I think it
goes without saying that any amateur of a competant nature could pull off
a superior production in many way but only because we know how to get more
for budget (what the heck is a budget?). That said, it doesn't automatically
follow that even with competance we would be able to do anything good.
Blair Witch may be pants in many ways but it connected with a whole lotta
people and therfor made it's mark in an indellable way.
A reality of all motion pictures, in fact life generally, is that there
is always some kind of flaw. However you could judge your friends a family
in the same way, e.g. aunty Wilma has a nasty mole on her top lip but she
is one of the most caring people you could meet. Now what feature of her
charactor are you going to take home with you? Any film which captures the
public imagination doesn't have to be excellent, it can be the worst film
ever made but it may yet have just something that makes people fall in love
with it in the same way that many of us have a friend of a roguish sort that
sense tells us to keep away from yet somehow we set it on one side.
Obviously we all try to do the best we can but if we fail to any degree
it is either by trying too hard or not enough but it may be the very making
of the picture. You can't manufacture a classic, only the human mindset can
decide what is great.

Davy

Re: About the filming rules... (A Belated Comment!)

Post by Davy » Tue Mar 07, 2006 10:42 am

A funny link about the topic is on the BBC website

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/programmes/c ... 771618.stm

Is this what we'll be doing next? I think I'm going to give it a shot.

Cheers Davy

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