film format s for competitions

A forum for sharing views on the art of film, video and AV sequence making as well as on competitions, judging and festivals.
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ron jarrett

film format s for competitions

Post by ron jarrett » Fri Feb 17, 2006 6:24 pm

I have just sent a film for entry in the Melbourne top ten competition. the
film was on a DVD which was considered a suitable format. However for BIAFF
I had to send my film on a VHS tape with an optional DVD for screening purposes.
As like Ian gardener I have moved into the 21st century using Digital camera
and a computor editing suite outputing to a digital format to maintain the
quality of output equaling that of imput. I must confess that I am not technically
mindered (unless you consider anaesthetic machines and ventilators technical)
and I am certainly not in the first flush of youth. Time to move to the present
surely.

PS I can also work/programme the DVD recorder on the TV cope with time slip
and have a video cell phone...who needs 14 year olds!!

Dave Watterson

Re: film format s for competitions

Post by Dave Watterson » Fri Feb 17, 2006 8:48 pm

"ron jarrett" <forums@theiac.org.uk> wrote:
However for BIAFF
I had to send my film on a VHS tape with an optional DVD for screening purposes.
What made you think you had to send VHS tape?

The IAC Competition rules say:
"Videos should be on VHS, S-VHS, (including Compact), Mini DV or DVD formats
capable of being shown through standard equipment. Other video formats may
be accepted subject to the Competition Manager’s prior approval."

In practice DVDs are a pain because they often don't play on one piece of
kit but will play on another. During the judging weekend there was a small
flurry of swapping DVD players around so that every entry could be played.
No single machine would play all the DVDs.

The commercial cinema industry has not come to terms with tape formats we
normally use and it is common to find their type of festival requiring 35mm
or VHS. In competitions where film students may take part we often get VHS
copies because they don't have access to the digital tapes we usually use.
The industry is slow to take up DVDs for these purposes too ... they seem
to think DVDs are very much the end of the production chain, for use when
their epic is finally released to Blockbuster.

Dave

ron jarrett

Re: film format s for competitions

Post by ron jarrett » Sat Feb 18, 2006 12:24 pm

Dave , corrct me if I am wong but rule five states. "for the purposes of judging
only films ahould be submitted on a standard video format" not knowing quite
what this meant I read is as a standard video tape.
Furthermore why there should in this day and age with dual reading DVD players
a problem with the DVD being read escapes me, We use a dual DVD player at
our club without any problems.

Ron Jarrett








"Dave Watterson" <david.filmsocs@virgin.net> wrote:
"ron jarrett" <forums@theiac.org.uk> wrote:
However for BIAFF
I had to send my film on a VHS tape with an optional DVD for screening
purposes.

What made you think you had to send VHS tape?

The IAC Competition rules say:
"Videos should be on VHS, S-VHS, (including Compact), Mini DV or DVD formats
capable of being shown through standard equipment. Other video formats
may
be accepted subject to the Competition Manager’s prior approval."

In practice DVDs are a pain because they often don't play on one piece of
kit but will play on another. During the judging weekend there was a small
flurry of swapping DVD players around so that every entry could be played.
No single machine would play all the DVDs.

The commercial cinema industry has not come to terms with tape formats we
normally use and it is common to find their type of festival requiring 35mm
or VHS. In competitions where film students may take part we often get VHS
copies because they don't have access to the digital tapes we usually use.
The industry is slow to take up DVDs for these purposes too ... they seem
to think DVDs are very much the end of the production chain, for use when
their epic is finally released to Blockbuster.

Dave

Dave Watterson

Re: film format s for competitions

Post by Dave Watterson » Sat Feb 18, 2006 1:31 pm

"ron jarrett" <henry.jarrett@btopenworld.com> wrote:
Dave , corrct me if I am wong but rule five states. "for the purposes of
judging
only films ahould be submitted on a standard video format"
You are correct, Ron. But here "film" was intended to mean "strips of plastic
with perforations down the side (or in the middle for 9.5ers). The idea is
that instead of sending in precious original 8mm etc entrants should transfer
them to tape and send that in for the judging. The rule goes on to explain
that if those entries are chosen for showing at BIAFF the makers can bring
the original and project them. It is all intended to safeguard precious cine
material.

You have identified an unnecessary confusion which we should try to put right
in the rules for 2007 and onwards. I will recommend changes to the Competition
Officer. Thanks.
Furthermore why there should in this day and age with dual reading DVD players
a problem with the DVD being read escapes me, We use a dual DVD player at
our club without any problems.
I can't answer that. I can only tell you that we did suffer problems using
a range of DVD players from cheapos to expensive ones. I am not familiar
with "dual reading" ones. What are they?

Dave

ron jarrett

Re: film format s for competitions

Post by ron jarrett » Sun Feb 19, 2006 2:59 pm

Dave,
The cost is of the player is not relevant, its the age of the player. Most
players of the last year or so have the ability to read plus or minus DVD's.
The standard has yet to be set so those of us (All of our club members medway
Camcorder Club now use DVD'S) using DVD's have a personal choice, for myself
although I have a dual recorder tend to use minus disc as they have a full
face silver printable surface and are cheaper that plus discs.
Gosh I an sounding very technical now...it will ruin my reputation of being
a slight technophobe!!

Ron




"Dave Watterson" <david.filmsocs@virgin.net> wrote:
"ron jarrett" <henry.jarrett@btopenworld.com> wrote:

Dave , corrct me if I am wong but rule five states. "for the purposes of
judging
only films ahould be submitted on a standard video format"

You are correct, Ron. But here "film" was intended to mean "strips of plastic
with perforations down the side (or in the middle for 9.5ers). The idea
is
that instead of sending in precious original 8mm etc entrants should transfer
them to tape and send that in for the judging. The rule goes on to explain
that if those entries are chosen for showing at BIAFF the makers can bring
the original and project them. It is all intended to safeguard precious
cine
material.

You have identified an unnecessary confusion which we should try to put
right
in the rules for 2007 and onwards. I will recommend changes to the Competition
Officer. Thanks.

Furthermore why there should in this day and age with dual reading DVD
players
a problem with the DVD being read escapes me, We use a dual DVD player
at
our club without any problems.

I can't answer that. I can only tell you that we did suffer problems using
a range of DVD players from cheapos to expensive ones. I am not familiar
with "dual reading" ones. What are they?

Dave

Dave Watterson

Re: film format s for competitions

Post by Dave Watterson » Sun Feb 19, 2006 6:11 pm

"ron jarrett" <henry.jarrett@btopenworld.com> wrote:
Most players of the last year or so have the ability to read plus or
minus DVD's.
Now I understand, thanks. I wondered if the expression "dual" meant handling
PAL and NTSC, or mini-dvd and regular size ones.

I believe all the players used for the judging weekend were dual in the sense
you describe - playing DVD+ and DVD- but not all discs would play in all
machines.

Dave

PS My reference to cheap players was because generally the cheaper ones play
anything you throw at them, whereas pedigree players can be fussy.

Davy

Re: film format s for competitions

Post by Davy » Sun Feb 19, 2006 9:56 pm

Dear All,

I've got this threat emailed to me by Willy, who is the boss ;) of our club
in Belgium.
We've had some discussions in out club about this.
I am a big fan of DVD's
I think it's the DVD-writing device that's causing the problem.
DVD-Players are standard devices wich rely on a decoding chip inside, made
only by a few manufacterers around the world.
It is possible that the cheapest player is using the same chip as the more
expensive one.
OK Back to the problem. I Think the ENcoder is the problem. I don't want
to boast but when I write a dvd I never have problems. (Willy told me once
that at another club they had problems using the dvd menu :))) but ro reading
issues). Some of the members of our club are using stand alone dvd writers
(like a vcr to connect to a tv). These things cause problems!!! If you record
a dvd you still can edit them. The recorder leaves the user flexibility to
erease or split clips on the dvd. This will not be a problem on the same
recorder but what happens if you put the dvd in a normal player!!!
I think that the safest way is to write your film on dvd with a PC using
pinnacle or something like that.

Why am i such a fan of dvd? Well, A dvd player costs about £60 and a mini-dv
apparatus about £2000.
One dustflake in the wrong place and your in for troubles. One grain of sand
and you can have your video head replaced (And your wallet as well)
Not all people are taking care of Mini-dv's as they should be.

Perhaps this sounds Chinese, But English is difficult for me and i don't
feel like reading the dictionary this late ;)

Greetings to you all!



"Dave Watterson" <david.filmsocs@virgin.net> wrote:
"ron jarrett" <henry.jarrett@btopenworld.com> wrote:
Most players of the last year or so have the ability to read plus or
minus DVD's.

Now I understand, thanks. I wondered if the expression "dual" meant handling
PAL and NTSC, or mini-dvd and regular size ones.

I believe all the players used for the judging weekend were dual in the
sense
you describe - playing DVD+ and DVD- but not all discs would play in all
machines.

Dave

PS My reference to cheap players was because generally the cheaper ones
play
anything you throw at them, whereas pedigree players can be fussy.

Dave Watterson

Re: film format s for competitions

Post by Dave Watterson » Mon Feb 20, 2006 11:46 pm

"Davy" <davyvdbergh@yahoo.com> wrote:
I think it's the DVD-writing device that's causing the problem.
Hi Davy - good to hear from you. Didn't you sit on my balcony last year answering
lots of silly questions from me - in excellent English?

Although I know a little about computers, I still find that DVDs burned on
my editing system from Premiere Pro or from Nero in a Pioneer DVD-RW DVR-109
drive do not read properly in my other computer's Samsung DVD-ROM SD-616T
drive. Yet other people's home burned DVDs do play. Luckily the discs I
make play on both my cheap and my expensive stand-alone DVD player.

I like commercial movies on DVD because of the high quality images, decent
sound with Dolby 5.1 or DTS and usually loads of extras which may be good
or bad.

The best thing about DVDs for non-commercial film makers is that they are
cheap. You can send one to a competition or another amateur without worrying
about the cost of the tape.

I hope you will keep reading and writing here.

Dave

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