I agree, like Albert said, that experience filmmakers probably “knows where
they are” so a grading from a competition judge is not that helpful.
For newcomers it’s very different.
However, not many competition forms ask you to fill in some details about
yourself, then how can a judge give comments at the right level?
--- --- --- ---
No one sets out to make a bad film. Yet there are many bad films being made.
I value Judges’ comments very much. Of course I can ignore them if I don’t
agree.
Do you know whether people like your film or not? If you sit with them, you
have a very good idea. So why do I need a judge? An average viewer can’t
really tell you why (s/he loves or hates it) though... do you notice? A good
judge will think more about that.
--- --- --- ---
Or you may say you don’t really care what other people say. This is not really
true, is it? Your film has an audience. You make the film for them and you
want them to like it. That’s why you show the film. Of course, if a judge
says rubbish then you should just ignore those comments.
Atta
On judging again
-
tom hardwick
Re: On judging again
I think that friends who see your film see a completely different film from
the one the judge sees sitting alone in the cold Atta. Friends know you,
know what your aims and aspirations are, might well have been involved in
the making of the film and so on. This involvement will undoubtedly add
to their enjoyment and understanding, and as friends they will tend to gloss
over the rougher corners (should your film have any of course).
The judge invariably sees your film straight out of the box. Often the title
tells him/her nothing, and he won't have read a synopsis as one does on the
back of a paperback book, say. The film must convey all, and do it on a
single pass as there's not often time to run a competition entry a second
time. The Judge's response will be to tell you how the film comes across
on this once-only viewing, and if he's honest and points out arears that
he feels could be improved, are you still saying that you'll ignore the advice?
As you say, it's not easy being a judge. You know nothing of the film maker,
his equipment, finances, age, sex, nationality. The film must stand or fall
all on its own, and I for one value a 'fresh pair of eyes' taking a cold
look at my work and telling me straight things that I cannot see for myself.
tom.
the one the judge sees sitting alone in the cold Atta. Friends know you,
know what your aims and aspirations are, might well have been involved in
the making of the film and so on. This involvement will undoubtedly add
to their enjoyment and understanding, and as friends they will tend to gloss
over the rougher corners (should your film have any of course).
The judge invariably sees your film straight out of the box. Often the title
tells him/her nothing, and he won't have read a synopsis as one does on the
back of a paperback book, say. The film must convey all, and do it on a
single pass as there's not often time to run a competition entry a second
time. The Judge's response will be to tell you how the film comes across
on this once-only viewing, and if he's honest and points out arears that
he feels could be improved, are you still saying that you'll ignore the advice?
As you say, it's not easy being a judge. You know nothing of the film maker,
his equipment, finances, age, sex, nationality. The film must stand or fall
all on its own, and I for one value a 'fresh pair of eyes' taking a cold
look at my work and telling me straight things that I cannot see for myself.
tom.
-
Atta Chui
Re: On judging again
Tom, In fact the impression I got is quite opposite - I've been lucky to get
favourable comments often, and I wish they could have been more critical.
However, judges know nothing about what the filmmaker wishes to take in,
so their comments have to be light and polite - of course we cannot blame
them for that - and the end result is that we can't really learn from the
comments.
There are too many people out there shooting arrows at the judges...
My comment that you should ignore the judge's comments actually reads this:
if you don't agree with the judge, don't shoot arrow at him/her. Like the
many reasons Tom raised, the judge can either mis-judge, or s/he stands from
a very different perspective and s/he just honestly says what s/he thinks.
If, after all objective analysis of the comments, you don't agree, then it's
just fine. Please just ignore those particular comments. You work very hard
to make a film. The judge works very hard to delivery the comments.
favourable comments often, and I wish they could have been more critical.
However, judges know nothing about what the filmmaker wishes to take in,
so their comments have to be light and polite - of course we cannot blame
them for that - and the end result is that we can't really learn from the
comments.
There are too many people out there shooting arrows at the judges...
My comment that you should ignore the judge's comments actually reads this:
if you don't agree with the judge, don't shoot arrow at him/her. Like the
many reasons Tom raised, the judge can either mis-judge, or s/he stands from
a very different perspective and s/he just honestly says what s/he thinks.
If, after all objective analysis of the comments, you don't agree, then it's
just fine. Please just ignore those particular comments. You work very hard
to make a film. The judge works very hard to delivery the comments.
-
Ned C
Re: On judging again
Films are viewed and criticised and critics have fully paid up prejudices
and preconceptions. It is interesting and sometimes valuable to get a critics
comments but if film making is an art then it is impossible to "judge" the
products as there are no rules or laws codified that the judges will agree
on. In amateur circles there is a tendency to "judge" films using the style
of the 40s and 50s as the guide - no jump cuts, narrative and visual continuity
to be maintained at all times, everything in focus, golden rule framing,
etc. A Quentin Tarantino film like Pulp Fiction would have the judges ducking
and weaving! I believe that the critics for amateur festivals should NOT
be film makers but rather modern film critics and fans. But I do remember
reading somewhere that one club asked a film critic to comment on a competition
and he panned all the films - obviously not asked for a return bout. The
"judges" are going to have a hard time with Albert's out of focus opus that's
for sure but on the other hand the critics may love it!
Ned C
and preconceptions. It is interesting and sometimes valuable to get a critics
comments but if film making is an art then it is impossible to "judge" the
products as there are no rules or laws codified that the judges will agree
on. In amateur circles there is a tendency to "judge" films using the style
of the 40s and 50s as the guide - no jump cuts, narrative and visual continuity
to be maintained at all times, everything in focus, golden rule framing,
etc. A Quentin Tarantino film like Pulp Fiction would have the judges ducking
and weaving! I believe that the critics for amateur festivals should NOT
be film makers but rather modern film critics and fans. But I do remember
reading somewhere that one club asked a film critic to comment on a competition
and he panned all the films - obviously not asked for a return bout. The
"judges" are going to have a hard time with Albert's out of focus opus that's
for sure but on the other hand the critics may love it!
Ned C
-
Michael Slowe
Re: On judging again
"Atta Chui" <iac.web@ntlworld.com> wrote:
under the skin of film makers is un informed comment of a judge getting the
wrong end of the stick over a film. Last year a nameless (no litigation!)
judge queried why I had not included "trombone like movements" of the glass
workers in my film Glass Art, since he himself had done so in a film he had
previously made. The reason was that there were no such actions by my subjects
since they did not need to blow more than the odd puff and it was explained
in the narrative!
Tom, I disagree with you over friends attitude to a film. Mine are not film
makers but they are film goers and are extremely critical and no rough corners
are glossed over! They expect and demand professional standards, since this
is what they get in their normal viewing; so should a competition judge.
He should see the film "cold and straight out of the box" and factors that
you list such as equipment, finance, age sex etc. should have no relavence
whatever. As you rightly say the film stands or falls on that single viewing
and if the viewer needs all sorts of explanations and synopsis (plural?)
then it has failed. If and when a judge tells us this then I for one welcome
it and bear the criticism in mind next time around.
Michael Slowe.
I don't think that Tom and Atta are at odds over this but what really getsTom, In fact the impression I got is quite opposite - I've been lucky to
get
favourable comments often, and I wish they could have been more critical.
However, judges know nothing about what the filmmaker wishes to take in,
so their comments have to be light and polite - of course we cannot blame
them for that - and the end result is that we can't really learn from the
comments.
There are too many people out there shooting arrows at the judges...
My comment that you should ignore the judge's comments actually reads this:
if you don't agree with the judge, don't shoot arrow at him/her. Like the
many reasons Tom raised, the judge can either mis-judge, or s/he stands
from
a very different perspective and s/he just honestly says what s/he thinks.
If, after all objective analysis of the comments, you don't agree, then
it's
just fine. Please just ignore those particular comments. You work very hard
to make a film. The judge works very hard to delivery the comments.
under the skin of film makers is un informed comment of a judge getting the
wrong end of the stick over a film. Last year a nameless (no litigation!)
judge queried why I had not included "trombone like movements" of the glass
workers in my film Glass Art, since he himself had done so in a film he had
previously made. The reason was that there were no such actions by my subjects
since they did not need to blow more than the odd puff and it was explained
in the narrative!
Tom, I disagree with you over friends attitude to a film. Mine are not film
makers but they are film goers and are extremely critical and no rough corners
are glossed over! They expect and demand professional standards, since this
is what they get in their normal viewing; so should a competition judge.
He should see the film "cold and straight out of the box" and factors that
you list such as equipment, finance, age sex etc. should have no relavence
whatever. As you rightly say the film stands or falls on that single viewing
and if the viewer needs all sorts of explanations and synopsis (plural?)
then it has failed. If and when a judge tells us this then I for one welcome
it and bear the criticism in mind next time around.
Michael Slowe.
-
AN
Re: On judging again
"Atta Chui" <forums@theiac.org.uk> wrote:
true that we need an audience I cannot say that I make films just for them.
First and foremost I make films to please me, showing one hopes for example
in my case, how inanimate objects might behave if alive.
So first and foremost it has to please me, and then hopefully an
audience will see something new about the lifeless inanimate they hadn't
thought about. We should't pander to the whims of an audience hoping
to get their approval. It's a difficult path to tread as most of us here
know full well.
Albert...looking for paths to tread.
I'm not too happy with 'we make a film for the audience.' Whilst it isOr you may say you don’t really care what other people say. This is not
really
true, is it? Your film has an audience. You make the film for them and you
want them to like it. That’s why you show the film. Of course, if a judge
says rubbish then you should just ignore those comments.
true that we need an audience I cannot say that I make films just for them.
First and foremost I make films to please me, showing one hopes for example
in my case, how inanimate objects might behave if alive.
So first and foremost it has to please me, and then hopefully an
audience will see something new about the lifeless inanimate they hadn't
thought about. We should't pander to the whims of an audience hoping
to get their approval. It's a difficult path to tread as most of us here
know full well.
Albert...looking for paths to tread.