Edit software selection

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ned c
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Edit software selection

Post by ned c » Sat Jul 26, 2014 9:36 pm

The major edit software makers offer two versions of their programs, Pro and "Hobbyist". Think Premiere Pro/Premiere Elements; FCX/iMovie; Edius/Edius Neo; Vegas Pro/Vegas Studio. (Avid sold off their low end versions). I am wondering why so many amateurs use the high end programs; what is it that the lower programs lack?

I have just converted to Vegas Pro from Final Cut; for years I have had Vegas Studio on a PC and used it occasionally and am now wondering why I have gone to the more expensive version? Most of my work is cuts, occasional compositing, I have never exceeded more than 8 lines in compositing. I use color correction and this is quite capable in the lower versions. I do not work with Red or RAW files, I could work with XDCAM which Studio accepts, it even offers 4K editing! In my professional days producers expected to hear Avid, FCP or at the beginning, Media 100, (Premiere was seen as an amateur program) even then I very rarely used the more arcane capabilities of the program. Are we edit snobs I wonder or am I missing something?

ned c

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Dave Watterson
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Re: Edit software selection

Post by Dave Watterson » Sat Jul 26, 2014 10:11 pm

This is the question that dares not speak its name ... We routinely avoid making a real case for our expenditure in the hobby.

How good does our camera need to be? It should capture great images, but how often will we work in the Sahara at midday or by candle-light? We need some controls but how many ... and how easy are they to use?

As Ned points out even the best of us rarely use more than very simple editing techniques. It is like the perennial puzzle: why have all those silly transitions in every edit package?

Do we need a van-load of lights or a couple of reflectors?

Part of it is that strange connection we make between expenditure and quality of film ... it is as if we think we can buy a better film making for ourselves. Yet we all know that is nonsense.

col lamb
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Re: Edit software selection

Post by col lamb » Sun Jul 27, 2014 7:49 am

Well put guys

I asked a question a couple of years ago about what editing software did everyone use and got a full mixed gamut of responses.

I fail to understand why someone spends hundreds if not thousands of pounds on a camcorder yet thinks that a thirty pound editing software is the way to edit.

In my club we have a guy who uses the Windows freebie and it shows in his movies, another uses a thirty pound edit software and it shows. Using his system try as I may it produces low data rate video files that are blurred and pixilated, enough said

I have tried my brothers Magix system and it is clunky and slow.

No we are no edit snobs but we do need the right tool for the job.

With the right editing software your workflow does just that. It flows. It is easy to select, trim and place video files on the timeline, once on the timeline you can trim, expand each clip as you wish and the quality of the output stands up to technical scrutiny on the big screen.

The edit modes in Premiere are superb, being able to switch from one to another makes editing a joy and ten years ago when I demonstrated them I got a sea of blank and stunned faces looking back at me and yet the tools were there right in front of them and yet they could not be bothered to learn more than the basics.

Same thing with Edius, learn the tricks and a better workflow results.

I have never updated software just because a newer version is there, yes there are benefits from upgrading but for me Premiere cs5.5 and Edius6 does all I need.

Edius Neo is well worth the 130 pounds that it is and will give years of service and it is light years ahead in terms of quality.

I am getting off my soapbox now
Col Lamb
Preston, Lancashire.
FCPX, Edius6.02, and Premiere CS 5.5 user.
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TimStannard
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Re: Edit software selection

Post by TimStannard » Sun Jul 27, 2014 9:16 am

col lamb wrote: In my club we have a guy who uses the Windows freebie and it shows in his movies, another uses a thirty pound edit software and it shows. Using his system try as I may it produces low data rate video files that are blurred and pixilated, enough said
That's as maybe, but consumer versions of the big boys programmes don't suffer quality problems.
No, my "justification" for the Pro version of Vegas is the same as the justification for a "better" camera - that is it makes certain things easier to use and therefore encourages (or doesn't get in the way of) workflow and creativity. In the case of a camera a single dedicated button to switch to manual focus, encourages the use of manual focus. In the case of Vegas, the ability to bring up scopes means I am more likely to do more exact precise correction. It also includes scripting which opens up a world of both free and pay-for shortcuts (and if so inclined, I could probably write my own) - this can greatly simplify routine tasks. Nested projects mean I can create one master projects and have the chapters in their own separate projects which I can open from within the master project.
Could I do it all in Movie Studio? Without a doubt (with a few exceptions like ramping up speed)! Does the additional cost justify the time saved? Arguable. Does it make editing more enjoyable? Definitely!
Tim
Proud to be an amateur film maker - I do it for the love of it

Frank Maxwell
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Re: Edit software selection

Post by Frank Maxwell » Sun Jul 27, 2014 1:08 pm

This question of editing software is like getting a taste for certain foods. I have no experience regards the PC market for editing software only the Sony Vegas.
Not many post on this forum about the MAC and iMovie and FCP. iMovie has advanced to the same layout as FCP-X. I started with iMovie at the beginning in it's early days and found the experience to edit after editing with film a wonderful bliss. I now could edit on computer. Slowly I was getting frustrated with the limited amount I could do. Then FCP-2 came out which I avoided until FCP-3. What a software at that time. I now could make a epic movie and edit like a pro. Wrong.... the learning curve was a struggle until I mastered the software. Apple then moved further with new version FCP Express, FCP-5 and then the big one FCP-7. Like a tank commander I bought this new version and updated my computer for the last time. Within a year I mastered FCP-7. Then all of a sudden the heavens open. iMovie was updated to a new format and FCP in the same format as iMovie. Both software had a major improvement. But many professional editing people were not happy with the new version of FCP-10.. I welcomed this new software as it is slick to use and very easy than all the other version. But in the end one factor is missing? it those not matter what you got in editing software unless you got a video worth editing. Today we still are focused on the editing software instead of producing good video material. The only good thing with today's editing software, you can turn a bad video into a slick enjoyable media to watch.
My motto is if you are happy the software you use and it gives you what you need fine. But if you make a living out of it then one needs to look on the speed side of editing. For me FCP10.1.2 meets my demand. Would I try other editing software NO?. I got less years in front of me than behind and I'm happy with what i got.

col lamb
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Re: Edit software selection

Post by col lamb » Sun Jul 27, 2014 1:46 pm

Frank

Sorry you have had issues but Apple is Apple and they change just because they can.

Tim

Edius and Edius neo differ in the video files they can edit and in the choice of output options, that is all Neo really is that good. Yes it does have other limitations but for 95% of users that will not make sny difference.

Frank

Both Premiere and Edius have changed over the versions but despite different colours snd layouts they still operate the same.

I have an ipad and imovie is 4th division compared to the Pinnacle edit app that I also have.

My argument over the years is for users to become technically competent with the software and then they are freed to become more creative.
Col Lamb
Preston, Lancashire.
FCPX, Edius6.02, and Premiere CS 5.5 user.
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Frank Maxwell
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Re: Edit software selection

Post by Frank Maxwell » Sun Jul 27, 2014 6:21 pm

Col,
Yes, one can become technically competent with a software, but my experience is once you have a software in my case Apple will update certain items in that software and then as soon as a new version comes out. The updates are no longer available after a time. Classic example... as soon the new version of FCP10. came out, Apple abandon FCP-7. Today they are selling off stock left in store. Most software companies in the editing market will strive to improve your workflow with new applications. Which can help and it all depends if you wish to have it.

ned c
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Re: Edit software selection

Post by ned c » Sun Jul 27, 2014 9:06 pm

Apple are Apple as Col points out but when they went from FCP7 to FCX they eliminated all compatability between the old and new software and in the process also left out some vital tools in v1, e.g. the ability to create XML files. This left the FCP7 users effectively abandoned and I see no reason why they will not do it again, perhaps with an OS that leaves everything behind. With Premiere in the cloud, Avid confusing everyone with a melange of alternatives I just hope that Sony Vegas keep it together and follow a logical (for the users that is) path of development. With regularly changing and developing CoDecs keeping up is a challenge.

Workflow is not only a product of the software design but also how it is adapted by the user. However; I'm glad to have lived into the digital age and no longer have to wonder what a transition will look like until the answer print comes back from processing!!

ned c

Roy1
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Re: Edit software selection

Post by Roy1 » Mon Jul 28, 2014 7:35 am

I think that Ned has voiced the opinions of a vast majority of hobbyist video makers in the UK. But alas the powers that be will take no notice of customers opinions or wishes. Sony could well jump on the bandwagon sometime in the future, if they find there's money in it.

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