End of the consumer camcorder

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ned c
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End of the consumer camcorder

Post by ned c »

At CostCo yesterday I noticed there is no longer a single camcorder in their camera line up. Everything from reasonably expensive DSLRs to point and shoot; all video capable. Why have two cameras when the family "still" camera will shoot the bits of video required? BUT; is the traditional still camera also doomed as telephones become ever more capable; I read that sales of still cameras are down and telephones replacing them! Yes; they are only tools to achieve a creative end but I have downsized from an Arri 16BL to a Canon Vixia HF G10 via more cameras than make sense so is there just a telephone in my future?

ned c
Brian Saberton
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Re: End of the consumer camcorder

Post by Brian Saberton »

As an experiment I tried shooting a video last year using a Canon G12 compact and the results were exceptionally good. The problem I found was that it is extremely difficult to keep a stills camera steady enough for movies and I had to use a mini tripod as a rudimentary pistol grip to reduce the amount of movement. As an experiment it was interesting but I have since bought a Panasonic X920 to get me into HD! Nevertheless I'm sure that most people will be quite happy to use either a stills camera or a phone to capture family memories though I think that the majority of enthusiasts will stick with conventional camcorders or digital SLR's (also difficult to hold steady unless you use a tripod all the time).
Brian Saberton
col lamb
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Re: End of the consumer camcorder

Post by col lamb »

iPhone 5S

8Mb still f2.2 lens

1080p full HD video

The choice we have now is incredible, plus £60 for the action camcorder Tom H reviewed in the current FVM we all have no excuse for not making movies
Col Lamb
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Peter Copestake
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Re: End of the consumer camcorder

Post by Peter Copestake »

When I see the films I'll be convinced. If I go to interview a local bigwig with a phone will I be taken seriously?
Peter Copestake
col lamb
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Re: End of the consumer camcorder

Post by col lamb »

I have seen comparative footage of the same sequence shot on a full HD camcorder and an iphone 4s.

The iphone had a softer image and colours slightly muted (colours very correctable in post) but still very watchable and you would be hard pressed not to be amazed.

There again is a local bigwig going to be impressed with someone who turns up to interview him with a £400 consumer camcorder?
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Roy1
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Re: End of the consumer camcorder

Post by Roy1 »

If no camcorders will be produced, I for one will use my existing camcorders until they are no longer servicable and then give up the hobby. I've seen videos made with cell phones and am not impressed with shaky shots (unavoidable) which can never be corrected later even with the most sophisticated stabiliser apps. Also when the BBC new service use them , mostly the lip synch is gone. Will the editing programmes Adobe CS5 and Sony Vegas work with cellphones. I think to the general public seeing a videographer with a tiny cellphone stuck on top of a large cumbersome tripod is going to take the mickey. Ah well some folk will call that progress.
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Dave Watterson
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Re: End of the consumer camcorder

Post by Dave Watterson »

I have long wondered if there is a market for some sort of fake, elaborate-seeming camera within which a smart phone or small consumer camcorder could be fitted. There are certainly occasions when it helps to look the part.
col lamb
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Re: End of the consumer camcorder

Post by col lamb »

Systems are available for the BM cinema camcorder that hide it amongst a plethora of gadgets, something similar can be made up to suit an iphone

http://www.digibroadcast.com/tripods-su ... g+ads#4665

Lens adaptors are already available for the iphone so there you are, just when you are wondering what to do with the iPhone 4s when you upgrade to the new 5s you have an almost ready new camcorder :lol:
Col Lamb
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ned c
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Re: End of the consumer camcorder

Post by ned c »

The BM CC and the BM Pocket camera are unimpressive in their naked form and the very expensive pieces of drilled metal; rods and super size sunshade make it all look important and "professional." When the Sony VX1000 came out I bought one and at that time worked with a cameraman using Hi Band Umatic he asked me to keep away from him when we were sharing a shoot as my gear looked so amateurish. In fact my picture was at a much better quality than his! So much for appearance; but his gear looked the part. We even joked about a large camera shaped box a la Dave's suggestion. It is now possible to spend more on the "cage" and accessories than the on the camera as shown in Col's link. Whatever happened to the good old pistol grip with a connection into the camera controls?

ned c
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TimStannard
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Re: End of the consumer camcorder

Post by TimStannard »

Whilst I have a natural tendency to agree with your sentiments here Ned, Roy & Peter and I'm sure you're only putting a practical slant on things, when these sorts of opinion are expressed in such terms it can only serve to reinforce the views that many potential IAC members have that the IAC is not for them. It gives the impression that we're all luddites harking back to the "good old days" of 8mm and believe that anything new is no more than a fad. All of this may well be true, but we should at least be welcoming the youngsters with their expensive "modular" systems or iPhones or GoPros. Maybe the old hands can teach them something. Maybe they can teach the old hands. Who knows, but if they're put off from coming along, we'll never know.
Tim
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col lamb
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Re: End of the consumer camcorder

Post by col lamb »

Well said Tim

It absolutely does not matter what kit is used to make the movie.....the important thing is that a movie was made.

Over on the Adobe forum the other day a lad posted ayoutube link to his movie.

His After Effects inspired clips looked impressive but the camera work was rubbish, he was given encouragement and advice, he took it well and thanked all.
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Roy1
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Re: End of the consumer camcorder

Post by Roy1 »

I agree that it does not matter what equipment is used to make a movie. But in my humble opinion, that movie should be well made and should be easy to follow by a general audience. Unfortunately a lot of movies today do not fall into that catagory. It's not the equipment at fault, it's the way modern movies are made. They seem to be made for the young who are now brought up on Jumpcuts, shaky images, mumbling quiet dialogue. Take away the swear words and there is precious little dialogue and music which is just a noise.

I have the very latest HD equipment and so don't think I'm a Luddite. But if my objection to the way films are made today makes me one to some people, then I will be proud to own up.

I recently gave a show at Gibraltar for charity and had an audience of over 500 while the commercial cinema nearby showing a Hollywood blockbuster was nearly empty. I like to think that was because older people understood the old fashioned method of filmmaking that I use and they couldn't follow the modern methods.
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TimStannard
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Re: End of the consumer camcorder

Post by TimStannard »

Roy1 wrote:I agree that it does not matter what equipment is used to make a movie. But in my humble opinion, that movie should be well made and should be easy to follow by a general audience. Unfortunately a lot of movies today do not fall into that catagory. It's not the equipment at fault, it's the way modern movies are made. They seem to be made for the young who are now brought up on Jumpcuts, shaky images, mumbling quiet dialogue. Take away the swear words and there is precious little dialogue and music which is just a noise.
Again, Roy, I find myself agreeing with you. My concern though is that your post which stongly implies "You can't make a good film with and iPhone/DSLR" is unlikely to help attract users of those devices to the IAC, as, in their eyes we simply don't "get it".
Once we have a strong contingent of people vociferously defending modern methods and equipment, then we can have the discussion. At the moment the forum, at any rate, does tend to give the impression we are "living in the past" as Ned put it in the new thread he created.
Tim
Proud to be an amateur film maker - I do it for the love of it
tom hardwick
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Re: End of the consumer camcorder

Post by tom hardwick »

Well I've tried and I've tried, but I can't get good movies out of my phone.
It has an ace camera, it shoots high quality stills and panoramas and has a sharp, flare-free and non-distorting lens, but try as I might the movies are always a disappointment. OK, on a tripod it's full HD footage is good, but anything hand-held is shaky beyond belief, and I rate myself as a pretty experienced hand-held camera operator.
Roy1
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Re: End of the consumer camcorder

Post by Roy1 »

tom hardwick wrote:Well I've tried and I've tried, but I can't get good movies out of my phone.
It has an ace camera, it shoots high quality stills and panoramas and has a sharp, flare-free and non-distorting lens, but try as I might the movies are always a disappointment. OK, on a tripod it's full HD footage is good, but anything hand-held is shaky beyond belief, and I rate myself as a pretty experienced hand-held camera operator.
I rest my case
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