Blackmagic Camera

A forum to share ideas and opinions on the equipment and technical aspects of film, video and AV making.
col lamb
Posts: 680
Joined: Tue Oct 16, 2007 9:51 pm
Location: Preston, Lancashire

Re: Blackmagic Camera

Post by col lamb »

Very well put Ned, but the question was not answered, Dave said....burnt out skies and scope for creative grading......so this is the only reason?

I am struggling to understand why anyone would have a 4k camcorder when no matter what you do or how you shoot, the technical process of producing a media file will end up on a Bulray disc or as a solid state file in HD 1920x1080 format, to get to this stage you will have to rely on the algorythms within the editing/compositing/grading software to grade and downscale the captured image

Are you not, chasing technology for technologies sake?

Ned, on the thread "your youtube & vimeo names" you will find my Vimeo name where I presently have 27 video's of all sorts. Also the PC spec it just there to show readers a system that works to supplement my techie posting on PC specification, actually it can now come off as my system is so out of date. Incidentally it will edit 4k, someone sent me some 4k files for me to help him prove that Edius 6 would not work, he was right, but Premiere edited them OK

Good luck when you guys eventually get the camcorders and I hope that you achieve precisely what you want to achieve in their use
Col Lamb
Preston, Lancashire.
FCPX, Edius6.02, and Premiere CS 5.5 user.
Find me on Facebook, Colin Lamb
ned c
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Joined: Mon Jan 29, 2007 3:39 pm
Location: Dammeron Valley USA

Re: Blackmagic Camera

Post by ned c »

Hi Col; The question "how will this help you make better movies" is open to two different answers; answer one addresses better technical quality and answer two addresses creative content.

I have tried to answer question one; in my earlier post. We are talking about a better quality image in terms of dynamic range; resolution; ability to hold up through heavy compositing and grading and subsequent copying. The better the original image the better the copies will be; remember the surprisingly good quality of VHS copies from 35 mm filmed originals? Remember the miserable copies we got from low band video originals? Original quality matters! There are a number of film festivals here (Docutah; Red Rock Festival; Westates Festival; Guerilla Contest) where the entries are projected on to large (cinema size) screens and the difference between SD and HD and DVD and BluRay is very clear. So if we start with a 4K original (a long way from where I am) the better the projection quality will be particularly as increasingly computer stored files of the originals are projected. AVCHD as a CoDec has well known limitations although it delivers excellent results for regular use; raw comes with a need for heavy duty post work but delivers a solid workable medium. I face the prospect of learning Da Vinci with considerable apprehension.

How will our cameras improve the creative content? They will not. There is the well known story of the famous editor brought in to save a high budget film and after the viewing commented "I can't help you; from sh*t you get sh*t." So if the creative script; directing; acting; are not there no amount of super camera work will save the day.

The amateur maker of narrative films is faced by huge problems well beyond those of the camera work. Although I spent my working life in industrials and documentary I love narrative film making and you can see how we set about it here at www.tsbtc.org

An interesting discussion

ned c
daveswan
Posts: 72
Joined: Mon Oct 13, 2008 11:22 am

Re: Blackmagic Camera

Post by daveswan »

Well to expand.

For the price of a BMC there's not much else even near it's quality. There are a few 1/3" or even smaller camcorders recording to various long-GOP codecs or DLSRs with even poorer codecs.

Granted the Panny GH3 looks very good, but we're being ripped off over the price here and it's still not up to the BMC by a long way.

The BMC has serious latitude so I'll be less likely to get burned out skies and windows, and the scope for creative grading should nor be sneared at.

Of course this all presupposes that the script, talent and crew are up to the job.

I say script, as I see this as a cinema camera best suited to narrative work. For free-form documentary stuff there are probably better options out there.
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FredD
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Joined: Wed Jun 29, 2011 1:29 pm
Location: The New Forest, Hampshire.

Re: Blackmagic Camera

Post by FredD »

So Colin,

I can't bight my tongue anymore !!
Get your head out of your luddite sand bucket, and pay attention ! :wink:

First ; on a point of accuracy ; the BMDCC is not a 4K camera, it is 2.5K.
Second ; It could be described as a Cinema Camera; but not a Camcorder.
It will function best at narrative content creation ; i.e. it is not a run and gun doco cam,
although could be used as such with the right rig.
Third ; I will quote Ned ; We are talking about a better quality image in terms of dynamic range; resolution; ability to hold up through heavy compositing and grading and subsequent copying.


Colin, please get out of your sand bucket, and try to accept change ! :wink: :wink:

Kind regards,
Fred D
"Films are never released, they escape !" Ben Burtt
ned c
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Joined: Mon Jan 29, 2007 3:39 pm
Location: Dammeron Valley USA

Re: Blackmagic Camera

Post by ned c »

Hi Col;

I am sure you have enjoyed winding us up and making us think a bit. A question for you. Will you ever consider replacing/upgrading your computer and software; if so; why?

ned c
col lamb
Posts: 680
Joined: Tue Oct 16, 2007 9:51 pm
Location: Preston, Lancashire

Re: Blackmagic Camera

Post by col lamb »

Ned
In a word, Yes

Not to question is burying ones head in the sand

To answer your questions I have a Canon 7D, a Panasonic 151 and a TM900 all in full 1080 HD

My PC can handle 7 streams of AVCHD video in real time so I have absolutely no need to upgrade it

It is very unlikely that I would upgrade to anything else unless 4k became the norm within our field

Presently all competitions are either DVD or Bluray quality, TV is broadcast in 1080 so I just fail to see why having anything other than a 1080 camcorder is necessary

With software such as Magic Bullet being available any grading can easily be done in post, you just have to look at the movies made by Bob Lorrimer to see the stunning image quality that results in using this software, a DSLR may have limitations in HD video but you just have to look at sites such a Vimeo to see what great image quality can be achieved, take a look at "Strange Fruit" to see what I mean in just one video out of thousands
Col Lamb
Preston, Lancashire.
FCPX, Edius6.02, and Premiere CS 5.5 user.
Find me on Facebook, Colin Lamb
daveswan
Posts: 72
Joined: Mon Oct 13, 2008 11:22 am

Re: Blackmagic Camera

Post by daveswan »

In case I have to repeat it again. the BMC is NOT a 4K camera, it's 2.4K so that down-converting to 1080p (Just under 2K) will give a clean image.

From the footage I've seen it outclasses anything below Epic levels, even Scarlet might feel some heat. The next step beyond is realisticly ALexa territory.

BUT.

You have to be prepared for post. You would no more deliver ungraded raw footage than you'd serve raw chicken at dinner (Appologies to veggies out there). You could shoot REC 709 ProRes / DNxHD but then you'd be losing a lot of the BMC's potential.

I don't see this as really a free-shooting docco camera but something for narrative drama with time to set up for each shot.
ned c
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Location: Dammeron Valley USA

Re: Blackmagic Camera

Post by ned c »

Thanks for the reply Col. We generally have to apply some color grading to our productions; sometimes a lot! An example is Four way Stop on my Vimeo site. This was shot over a year for various reasons and left us with a mountain of shots that did not match so there is a lot of grading; as I use FCP7 the grading is done in Color. To add to the pain this was shot on a Panasonic HDC100; a very early version of the current small 3 chipper; 1920x1080 AVCHD at 17 mbps is not a good starting point. In all the interior shots, when the car was full, the camera was upside down as it was the only way we could mount it on the rear view mirror. The results are just about acceptable but it stood up surprisingly well to large screen projection. Color grading in Color is not easy and I would like to hear from users of the Red Giant software because if this is easy I want all the help I can get.

Raw will be a new experience I am sure. DSLRs have demonstrated that big chips and good glass are the way to go; now to get the ergonomics and sound right.

ned c
ned c
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Joined: Mon Jan 29, 2007 3:39 pm
Location: Dammeron Valley USA

Re: Blackmagic Camera

Post by ned c »

The BMCC reviewed (contains strong language)


youtu.be/


ned c
daveswan
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Joined: Mon Oct 13, 2008 11:22 am

Re: Blackmagic Camera

Post by daveswan »

:groan:

Not another one :mrgreen:
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FredD
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Joined: Wed Jun 29, 2011 1:29 pm
Location: The New Forest, Hampshire.

Re: Blackmagic Camera

Post by FredD »

.... Yes Dave ... another one...
But still good fun ... !! :lol: :lol:
"Films are never released, they escape !" Ben Burtt
john ingham
Posts: 221
Joined: Tue May 22, 2012 7:29 am
Location: Exmouth

Re: Blackmagic Camera

Post by john ingham »

:lol: yes there are many..but that was a cracker :lol:
Keep trying, for one day you will get it right
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