A New AppleMac or a PC?

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Pqtrick
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A New AppleMac or a PC?

Post by Pqtrick »

A MAC OR A PC? I am tempted to air this topic as I am coming up to facing the thought of having to change my computer. Now is it time to invest in an Apple or not? There are many pros and cons, the main one the cost of the outlay. Then there is the question of replacing software.

I am not completely a stranger to the Macintosh as my early home computers were Classics and then the LC and Mac II model’s with memory upgrades. Why did I change? I worked mainly in graphics and CAD and the changed to a PC as the work environment changed.

Now the mainstay of what I use a computer for is video editing and photo related work for myself. My experience is that the Mac is without doubt still more stable and less prone to crashes and viruses. Current users of them confirm this.

By a coincidence, I have learnt that most members of the club I now belong to are confirmed MAC users.

Has anyone else gone down this path and had to make the same decision? :?
Fingercuff
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Re: A New AppleMac or a PC?

Post by Fingercuff »

I took a chance on a MAC a few years ago and haven't looked back since. Final Cut studio is such a terrific all round package (pricey though). I don't think I could ever go back now to PC editing. Many of my friends have also made the jump and been pleased with the results.

You are certainly right about the stability and virus protection. My old PC was blighted with these issues but I have had very little trouble with my MAC.

The only draw back is that there isn't as much of a choice with software as there is with PC but that may be a good think as well.
ned c
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Re: A New AppleMac or a PC?

Post by ned c »

I have both a Mac and a PC in my studio. The Mac is used primarily for editing and the PC for office work (Windows XP SP2). I have an Intel iMac (3 GB memory) with FC Studio (FCP 5 etc.) and FC Express 4HD, both of which are stable and easy to use and with a range of power that exceeds my abilities and needs. However, I am upgrading to a quad core Mac with 8 GB memory so that I can handle AVCHD intra as well as long form (GOP) and use Mac ProRes 422. I have been a Mac user for about 10 years now and have limited experience with PC based editing systems but do have Vegas Studio Platinum on the PC as a back up and this seems to be a relatively stable and well designed program. A colleague uses the full Vegas, now v9 I believe, and he has had excellent results on an HP work station.

I have crashed the Mac during editing but it does so gracefully and recovery is easy unlike the PC which crashes messily with painful recovery!

I think the key is to looking at what software you are most comfortable with and making sure the computer (Mac or PC) is configured to the needs of the software rather than buying a computer and then squeezing on the software. I have my Macs configured by a system integrator here in the USA (Promax) which adds cost but does deliver support.

Just some thoughts, let us know what you decide

ned c
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billyfromConsett
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Re: A New AppleMac or a PC?

Post by billyfromConsett »

I went to PC editing from an Amiga 1200 about 10 years ago. But modern PC's don't crash as often as the older versions of Windows - WinXP is the best OS for PC's I've seen.
I've not had a virus on any editing PC I've used (yet), and I can build a Quad Core high spec rigs for about £700. So I'll stick with a PC.

But I don't know anyone who is unhappy with their mac.
ned c
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Re: A New AppleMac or a PC?

Post by ned c »

I was thinking a little more about Paddy's question and I believe the important issue is not so much the platform (Mac v PC) as the NLE software we have to be comfortable with.

I know that both platforms properly configured can be acceptably stable so the need is to have a good opportunity to evaluate different software packages and get to know them well enough to decide which will be part of our future. There are now a relatively limited number of software options at the three levels, entry, intermediate and advanced. The professionals and film schools have zeroed in on Avid and FCP with Premiere Pro CS4 and Vegas 9 knocking at the gate Edius having a smaller following. For most of us readers here the intermediate programs will meet our needs, in my case Final Cut Express (I still do the occasional professional job which is why I have FCP - but do I really need it or is it the last throes of demonstrating who I am?!!).

It is not easy to get the opportunity to evaluate software although most of the intermediates do offer trial downloads.

ned c
Geoff Addis
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Re: A New AppleMac or a PC?

Post by Geoff Addis »

My first post on this forum and it's probably a contentious one so it could be my last! :roll:

Although it is not my intention to do so, I'm sure that I will upset many Final Cut Pro users in stating that, in my opinion, FCP has long passed it's 'sell by' date'; this also applies to the latest incarnation of Mac's OS and FCP software just released.

Three years ago I moved from PC to Mac, believing all the high praise for FCP must, to some extent, be justified; what a mistake!!!! Perhaps things are different if you are editing SD, but FCP flounders with poor transition and FX preview performance and long rendering times; when compared to editing the same footage, with the same FX and on the same MacPro, Edius is far more efficient and refined. This is particularly evident with full 1920x1080 50i EX HD footage; for example a 30 minute timeline that had already been rendered, but now subject an additional Y curve filter took over 2 hours to render in FCP compared to the 15 minutes in Edius; this was using FCP's ProRes and Edius's HQ formats with both rendered to their respective software formats to provide identical quality output. The so called 'real time' preview in FCP is a joke, it's often neither real time or of a quality that enables you to make a meaningful judgement of what is happening unless you render and this can take quite some time.

This assessment has been made using a 2.66GHz Quad core based MacPro fitted with 8GB RAM and 2 x 500GB SATA disk in RAID 0 for FCP and a single 500GB HD for Edius operating within the Windows environment under Bootcamp. More recent and Faster MacPros will show some improvement in speed, but I would expect the performces difference to remain similar.

In fairness, the FCP suite does have more extensive audio editing and advanced color correcting capabilities than Edius, but even the associated Soundtrack Pro program can be troublesome.
As far as stability is concerned, I have found Edius to be at least as stable as FCP and these days I don't have problems with Windows' stability either.

I would suggest that you visit Apples FCP forum to see the huge number of postings regarding problems then have a look at Grass Valley's Edius forum

I have also recently looked at Adobe Premiere Pro CS4 and that seems to offer a better performance than FCP, but I have not yet had sufficient experience with this incarnation of PP to reach a conclusion as to how it really performs when used under pressure.

Just in case any of you may be wondering if my Operating Systems, FCP and Edius software is up to date, yes it is apart from the fact that I have not yet installed the just released Snow Leopard OS and FCP3 software, but all reports on these versions of the Mac software are indicating no real advancement in either real time or rendering performance.

Having recently installed Edius 5.12 on a new PC fitted with an Intel i7, 3.02GHz processor, 6GB of RAM and two 1TB HD drives in RAID 0 , I can only say that 1920x1080 editing is very close to the level of performance as SD DV was when I moved up to HD 4 years ago. The addtion of a FireCoder Blue card has given me better than real time rendering for BluRay (the Matrox MX02 mini with the Fast option does the same for FCP) and I am now able to burn a BluRay disk directly from the Edius timeline. :lol:

So, in conclusion, my appolgies if I have offended any FCP user, but don't forget that I too spent a lot of money on the FCP software!

Happy editing,

Geoff
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billyfromConsett
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Re: A New AppleMac or a PC?

Post by billyfromConsett »

Geoff Addis wrote:I have also recently looked at Adobe Premiere Pro CS4 and that seems to offer a better performance than FCP, but I have not yet had sufficient experience with this incarnation of PP to reach a conclusion as to how it really performs when used under pressure.
Us hobbyists aren't really supposed to use these editing apps "under pressure" mind.

Having said that I've used CS4 to edit a wedding in HDV. It works, though I've got a Quad core chip in my rig.

After Effects needed nearly 2 hours to render a 3d 10second clip to 1920x1080 though. Maybe that i7 chip would help ...
ned c
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Re: A New AppleMac or a PC?

Post by ned c »

All comments welcome and yes, FCP is far from perfect but I have used it since v2 so am comfortable with it. Edius has a had a good reputation for years however I view its future with some suspicion as it is a program that does not sit comfortably in the Grass Valley line up. I started NLE with EditDV; essentially an excellent program that dieds after its third owner, similarly, Liquid seems to have been killed off by Avid. The user base of Edius is relatively small compared with Avid or FCP so the complaint level is likely to be considerably lower.

ned c
Geoff Addis
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Re: A New AppleMac or a PC?

Post by Geoff Addis »

I think that I would be happier to retain Edius as it is now rather than have to rely soley on FCP in its present form. Fortunately software does not deteriorate with age, as do tape heads, so even if Edius was to be discontinued then I would still have an efficient editing program! As at present, I do not have any concerns over the continued development of Edius, partcularly since Grass Valley is no longer part of the Thomson empire - in fact it makes sense for GV to continue the product since it fits in with their main stream digital production environment. If one ignores the fact the GV was part of Thomson for a short while (after GV's acquisition of Canopus/Edius), Edius has only really had two owners and, as you say, Canopus/Edius has been around for quite some time now.

My present editing set up makes use of both the FCP suite and the Edius editing software with my new i7 based PC connected to the Mac via ethernet thus allowing cross platform working, so I have the best of both worlds.

Geoff
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