Adobe Premiere Pro 2 for HD
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Roy
Adobe Premiere Pro 2 for HD
Can any user of this programme tell me if Editing in HD is any different to editing in Standard DV. I have been looking at Tutorials about Pro 2 but none of them mention HD. I can't even see any capture presets especially for HD, only DV 4x3 or widescreen. Any info welcomed. Roy
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chrisk
Re: Adobe Premiere Pro 2 for HD
Prem Pro 2 comes with the following presets (I think I may separately downloaded the some of the presets as an update from the Adobe site)
Adobe HD-SDI
1080i 25
1080i 30
1080i P24
760P 60
Adobe HDV
HDV 1080i 25 (Sony 50i)
HDV 1080i 30 (Sony 60i)
HDV 760P 60
Canon HDV
Canon 24F HDV
Canon 25F HDV
Canon 30F HDV
These are taken from the 'New Project' window, but as I don't use HD I can't comment on their use
Chris
Adobe HD-SDI
1080i 25
1080i 30
1080i P24
760P 60
Adobe HDV
HDV 1080i 25 (Sony 50i)
HDV 1080i 30 (Sony 60i)
HDV 760P 60
Canon HDV
Canon 24F HDV
Canon 25F HDV
Canon 30F HDV
These are taken from the 'New Project' window, but as I don't use HD I can't comment on their use
Chris
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Dave Watterson
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Re: Adobe Premiere Pro 2 for HD
I wonder if any of our HD using friends would care to comment on the general problem of editing in HD.
The latest issue of Practical Computing World magazine has an article by one of its experts and reviewers about the need for VERY high powered computers to work with HD and still having problems. According to him most professional systems actually transcode into an intermediate format for editing purposes - that format (which is slightly different according to which system you buy) is easier to edit but takes up a great deal more storage space.
If this is the current situation it makes the advantage of using memory cards to capture footage and import them quickly into your computer seem less attractive ... you would still have to go through the transcode process before starting work.
Dave
The latest issue of Practical Computing World magazine has an article by one of its experts and reviewers about the need for VERY high powered computers to work with HD and still having problems. According to him most professional systems actually transcode into an intermediate format for editing purposes - that format (which is slightly different according to which system you buy) is easier to edit but takes up a great deal more storage space.
If this is the current situation it makes the advantage of using memory cards to capture footage and import them quickly into your computer seem less attractive ... you would still have to go through the transcode process before starting work.
Dave
Re: Adobe Premiere Pro 2 for HD
This thread is headed Adobe Premiere Pro 2 so perhaps my contribution may be irrelevant as I use Final Cut Studio on a 24 inch iMac for editing HDV. However some thoughts for those about to join the HDV world. The editing part of FC Studio, Final Cut Pro 5HD, can edit in "native" HDV or Apple Intermediate CoDec. HDV uses mpeg2 groups of pictures (GOP) as the recording CoDec, this is "inter frame compressiopn" unlike DV where each individual frame is compressed; "intra frame compression".
I work NTSC so the GOPs are in groups of 15 pictures, these GOPs are made up of I frames where the picture information is complete; P frames where the preceding frame is required for picture reconstruction and B frames that require both the preceding and succeeding frames to reconstruct the picture. How this works in practice is that only the changes between pictures are recorded, so the runners change in position is recorded but the stationary background is reconstructed from the other frames.
As you can see with all this happening at 30 fps (25 fps in Europe) there is a tremendous amount of processing going on just to record and play back. Editing adds a whole new level of complexity as if you decide to make a cut at a P or B frame the picture has to be reconstructed "on the fly"; even more processor horsepower required. Add to this transitions and compositing and the load is incredible. This is "native editing". To ease the computer load the HDV can be converted to a form that does not require this level of processor power, a "proxy" is created that is edited and then acts as a template for the reconstruction of the mpeg2 stream for printing to tape.
The penalty for using a proxy is that the size of the files is increased dramatically, but storage is cheap these days, there is a longer render time, but then we are not cutting for news broadcasts.
I have both FCP 5HD and FC Express 4HD on my iMac; FC Express only edits in Apple Intermediate CoDec, FCP natively or AIC. I have used both for HDV editing editing with complete success and no serious problems (most problems are me rather than the system). I edit most days of the week and do so enjoyably and with ease in both the software packages on my computer. My long time co-worker uses Vegas 9 on a PC and his experience has been good as well, no major problems.
Yes, you need a powerful computer to edit HDV and older machines perhaps will not work but the modern dual processor; fast buss machines with as much RAM (I have 3GB on the iMac) as you can afford will deliver a good editing experience.
Hope this helps
ned c
I work NTSC so the GOPs are in groups of 15 pictures, these GOPs are made up of I frames where the picture information is complete; P frames where the preceding frame is required for picture reconstruction and B frames that require both the preceding and succeeding frames to reconstruct the picture. How this works in practice is that only the changes between pictures are recorded, so the runners change in position is recorded but the stationary background is reconstructed from the other frames.
As you can see with all this happening at 30 fps (25 fps in Europe) there is a tremendous amount of processing going on just to record and play back. Editing adds a whole new level of complexity as if you decide to make a cut at a P or B frame the picture has to be reconstructed "on the fly"; even more processor horsepower required. Add to this transitions and compositing and the load is incredible. This is "native editing". To ease the computer load the HDV can be converted to a form that does not require this level of processor power, a "proxy" is created that is edited and then acts as a template for the reconstruction of the mpeg2 stream for printing to tape.
The penalty for using a proxy is that the size of the files is increased dramatically, but storage is cheap these days, there is a longer render time, but then we are not cutting for news broadcasts.
I have both FCP 5HD and FC Express 4HD on my iMac; FC Express only edits in Apple Intermediate CoDec, FCP natively or AIC. I have used both for HDV editing editing with complete success and no serious problems (most problems are me rather than the system). I edit most days of the week and do so enjoyably and with ease in both the software packages on my computer. My long time co-worker uses Vegas 9 on a PC and his experience has been good as well, no major problems.
Yes, you need a powerful computer to edit HDV and older machines perhaps will not work but the modern dual processor; fast buss machines with as much RAM (I have 3GB on the iMac) as you can afford will deliver a good editing experience.
Hope this helps
ned c
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Michael Slowe
- Posts: 810
- Joined: Mon Jan 29, 2007 4:24 pm
Re: Adobe Premiere Pro 2 for HD
Although I'm not an Adobe user I can answer quite a few of these points because I've been editing in full HD (not HDV) for a year or more.
I use Media 100 but I'm sure most systems are similar in that you have to set your codec before you start work. There are many codecs in use but I use Media 100 Uncompressed HD although many people use the Apple Pro Res which is still HD but requires far less storage capacity.
I am using the Duel Core Mac G5 which seems plenty fast enough to do the job but it is the exterior storage drives which have to be fast to play HD apart from having big capacity. I have two drives, each of 2.4 TB's which, due to a Raid protection arrangement have capacity reduced by 20%.
Editing otherwise is exactly the same as with DV. The difference is that as things stand we still have to deliver in DV so the final programme has to be downscaled and it is this which sorts out the systems. I downscale using BitVice if I'm making a DVD since it has a very high standard downscale and for tape I use Media 100's downscale which also is excellent.
An increasing amount of HD acquisition is to S X S cards and since the cards are expensive you can't keep camera original media on these because you want to re use them, maybe immediately. Consequently media files have to be downloaded onto some sort of portable drive pending editing but this will eventually become standard workflow for everyone.
So there is no great mystery about HD, it's just another codec, albeit with some additional system requirements. HDV is a different matter since, as someone mentions above, it operates with a Group of Pictures (GOP) which makes some of the edit process tricky and may degrade pictures, you are not dealing with individual frames, only a selection. Better technical minds than mine will tell you much more - I just try and make films and learn just enough to get by!
I use Media 100 but I'm sure most systems are similar in that you have to set your codec before you start work. There are many codecs in use but I use Media 100 Uncompressed HD although many people use the Apple Pro Res which is still HD but requires far less storage capacity.
I am using the Duel Core Mac G5 which seems plenty fast enough to do the job but it is the exterior storage drives which have to be fast to play HD apart from having big capacity. I have two drives, each of 2.4 TB's which, due to a Raid protection arrangement have capacity reduced by 20%.
Editing otherwise is exactly the same as with DV. The difference is that as things stand we still have to deliver in DV so the final programme has to be downscaled and it is this which sorts out the systems. I downscale using BitVice if I'm making a DVD since it has a very high standard downscale and for tape I use Media 100's downscale which also is excellent.
An increasing amount of HD acquisition is to S X S cards and since the cards are expensive you can't keep camera original media on these because you want to re use them, maybe immediately. Consequently media files have to be downloaded onto some sort of portable drive pending editing but this will eventually become standard workflow for everyone.
So there is no great mystery about HD, it's just another codec, albeit with some additional system requirements. HDV is a different matter since, as someone mentions above, it operates with a Group of Pictures (GOP) which makes some of the edit process tricky and may degrade pictures, you are not dealing with individual frames, only a selection. Better technical minds than mine will tell you much more - I just try and make films and learn just enough to get by!