Film competitions - Mini DV or DVD?

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stingman
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Post by stingman » Wed Mar 07, 2007 6:42 pm

My understanding. If you copy a DVD in your computer via the computer software ie, Put DVD in. Copy. Take out. Put blank DVD in. Burn. Then there will be an exact copy with no degeneration. Having said that, I have had trouble with some of the copys but this is no way connected with picture quality.
If you copy a DVD from your DVD player via Scart, phono or super etc then you WILL get degeneration. It would be like doing an old copy like the oldern days.
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billyfromConsett
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Post by billyfromConsett » Wed Mar 07, 2007 7:00 pm

Stingman - That's my understanding. But I've got to admit that I never copy DVD's outside of computers. The DVD recorders that can be acquired today (some with hard drives) may be cleverer than the oldy world days.

I suppose that when I see a movie of mine not look to my liking on a screen, I assume it's a copy. But I've got no proof and haven't asked anybody.

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Post by tom hardwick » Wed Mar 07, 2007 7:10 pm

Paul - nothing's infinite. When you pop a DVD into your computer's drive and click on 'copy', the player attempt to read every single digit, from the menu pages and music used, the audio compression and subtitles, the date it was made, the end titles, both layers and all the chapter points.

These are just incomprehensible ones and zeros in a massive bit-stream that need to be decoded later. The best readers will pick up very nearly all the bits.

You then pop in a blank disc and hit 'burn'. The computer simply empties its RAM memory, sending the bits to the burning laser in the right order. This in turn attemps to burn every single bit to the blank. The faster you do this, the more you're asking of a 20p disc in a £20 burner. Slow down.

DVD players are pretty forgiving things really. I can swing my portable around my head and it'll still continue to read the disc correctly, and sophisticated error correction will fill in the gaps so that my mere human brain won't notice. If too many bits are unreadable the machine will stutter, and some players will continue playing in an effort to find a 'clean signal'.

If you have to make a lot of copies of a DVD or a CD, then don't daisy-chain your work - always use the master to generate the slave.

Billy. If you can connect two dvd players via s.video you won't get any sound for a start, but you'll certainly get a digital copy because DVDs are digital. But your S signal is an analogue conversion of the original digital bit-stream that will have to be re-digitised to burn the new blank. There will be multiple losses; don't ever do it this way.

tom.

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stingman
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Post by stingman » Wed Mar 07, 2007 7:11 pm

I think that if it`s a copy for someone then the quality will be ok. If it`s an extra master copy then do a computer one.
I video now and again for someone and he wants the finished result on VHS. This is a total pain. I edit and burn to DVD. Set up my portable tv and dvd player and then do a copy. If it`s over 1hour 4 mins (I think) then I have to burn at a lower quality. Even this is ok in certain curcumstances. If the film has disco lighting then this isn`t so good at this quality. My understanding is that it is stiull quite good as opposed to VHS Days. You just get a few more squary artifacts, instead of grain.

On a similar note. It has been discussed on here before. Burning copys on Recorderable DVD recorders (like under the tv.) This doesn`t play very well on `standered dvd players. Like at our club it will stop and start and speed up the picture to catch up with the sound staying constant. It`s the bit rate proberly.
I recorded a film off the tv and a dvd (tv type recorder.) I has an option to convert to a playerable dvd. I did this. It still won`t work on a standard dvd player. It works only in the dvd recorder inself.
It`s all such a pain, and with HD, blu-ray and others coming out. We can only look for even more cock-ups!
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Post by tom hardwick » Wed Mar 07, 2007 7:25 pm

Ian - if someone wants a VHS copy of your film, why not simply connect the VCR to the PC and burn it direct from the timeline? This will give a much better copy than going the timeline - DVD - VHS route.

tom.

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stingman
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Post by stingman » Wed Mar 07, 2007 7:33 pm

This would be better, I agree but the last time I looked into it, it was a question of types of connections from the computer. With different tv`s in the house, DVD players, computer out`s and different video connections. I think the problem was also the tv in on the tv. This particular tv only had RF!
I`ll have another look when I need to do it but it does give me a master DVD to keep and use again. I could record it back to MiniDV and use that copy to burn to Video. That way I can totally delete it from my computer. I need the space, my computer with it`s 3 hard drives is almost full and is running on fumes.
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Michael Slowe
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Post by Michael Slowe » Thu Mar 08, 2007 9:49 am

No Billy, I was not talking about copying DVD's through S Video but the proper way, in a computer using software that we use for burning our DVD's in the first place, Titanium Toast. That way the discs are identical with no degredation.

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stingman
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Post by stingman » Thu Mar 08, 2007 11:31 am

Surly if you are taking a signal out of the computer via a S Video socket. This socket is still analogue. Yes, the quality is good but the signal has still gone through a conversion and this will degrade it very slightly.
Or have I missed something :o
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Dave Watterson
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Post by Dave Watterson » Thu Mar 08, 2007 1:04 pm

Yes, passing any digital signal through an S-Video socket will degrade it slightly.

If you run that signal into a digital recorder of some kind the finished result will be a slightly-degraded-digital-copy.

But the issue earlier in the thread was about copying DVD films onto MiniDV tape for use in award shows etc.

Can you simply connect a DVD drive in a computer to a MiniDV deck or camcorder using firewire?
I have not tried that.

My clumsy way is to copy the VOB file onto my hard drive, rename it as an MPG file and import that to the Premiere timeline. After rendering it, the result can be output to tape in the usual way. (A VOB file is a special form of MPG file anyway so changing the file extension is not so drastic as it sounds.)

I suspect that is not the best way - but is it better than linking a DVD player to a tape deck or camcorder using S-Video and a pair of sound leads?

Dave

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stingman
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Post by stingman » Thu Mar 08, 2007 2:35 pm

Dave Watterson wrote:
My clumsy way is to copy the VOB file onto my hard drive, rename it as an MPG file and import that to the Premiere timeline. After rendering it, the result can be output to tape in the usual way. (A VOB file is a special form of MPG file anyway so changing the file extension is not so drastic as it sounds.)

I suspect that is not the best way - but is it better than linking a DVD player to a tape deck or camcorder using S-Video and a pair of sound leads?

Dave
I didn`t know about altering the extension on a VOB to an MPG. Thanks.
We all know that (may be all of us!) the file size of a film on the computer is (for example 12 gig), a DVD equivelent size is just over 4 gig. I don`t know the theroetical size of the said file when it`s on a MiniDV tape. DVD is quite a lossey format. When shown, a MiniDV tape does look better with less Jaggies then a DVD, but this may also be to do with burning quality. It seems quite hard to compeat for quality of a Hoolywood film on DVD. I know these discs hold twice as much data but they are cramped with all sorts of goodies!
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