Hello to you all.I have given this a different heading as I wanted to take
things off at a tangent, but I still wanted to link to a previous posting.
So here goes.
On his UNICA posting, Dave mentions a Korean film on DVD which would not
play it`s subtitles. I agree with his view that this sounds bizarre, but
do not fully comprehend all the technicalities of the system. As commercial
DVDs have their subtitles hidden away somewhere on the disc, should you need
them, then I suppose it is feasable that a disc intended for another TV system,
may not be able to access all the data. It seems all DVD players/ recorders
and discs are not the same and this may explain why this was the case. But
then, that`s probably being far too logical.Perhaps someone with more technical
knowledge can explain it?
DVD compatibility seems to be a big problem for me now, as I seem to be making
discs to send all over the UK. People in the IAC are asking for copies of
my films and DVD seems to be an easy solution. Of course, Mini DV is the
much preferred option, but as my Sony DVD recorder can copy a disc at high
speed, it is much faster doing it this way.
I also make wedding DVDs and here again, (I have discovered) not everone
can play all discs. Minus R (-R) seems to be the generally favoured format
and I would guess that most people can play these without problems.
A few DVD players seem to handle Plus R (+R) discs better and a very few
don`t like either much. The problems seem to be pausing/ freezing, skipping
and returning to the start. For my own purposes (being logical again) I have
just bought a Sony DVD player from Argos. As the recorder is a Sony machine,
I bought a Sony player (for only £69.99.)
This seems to play recordable discs perfectly. Three cheers for Sony, but
what about everyone else?
After the VHS Vs Betamax issue in the 70s, why didn`t manufacturers get their
act together this time and sort out a single format? Could it be commercial
gain for the "winner"? How cynical of me. But it is a real pain not knowing
which disc to send to people.
What do readers think?
On a slightly different note: .......................Bong!
A couple more entries arrived today for our FICTION film competition. It
baffles me sometimes whether people ever bother to read anything properly.
Surely a FICTION film competition speaks for itself? A competition for FICTION
films. Nothing against non-fiction (I have made some myself) but this is
an idea to promote FICTION films.
Why then have I had one entry sent (on DVD) which from the synopsis seems
to clearly indicate that this is a documentary? Aaarrrgghh.
Ken.
P.S. Thanks to those of you on this site who have sent a film in to us.
DVD compatibility
-
Dave Watterson
Re: DVD compatibility
Hi Ken,
I'm no expert - maybe Alan Colegrave will wade in here - but home produced
DVDs do have problems. Several other DVDs at UNICA hiccuped occasionally.
In fact as judges in the video age we almost always have to ignore glitches
in pictures because they may have occurred in projection as opposed to making
of the work. We were not so tolerant about visible splices in cine days.
I believe that some wedding videographers actually give away a cheap DVD
player to every couple which employs them. I guess they check that their
preferred discs play well on the machines they choose. The cheapest players
are a throw-away item now and ironically they tend to play a wider range
of discs than expensive ones. Their mechanisms may not last so long or generate
an image you would be happy to project ... but for normal home use on a tv
set they are fine.
You are probably right to think that profit and market-share are behind the
confusion of formats. Don't forget, however, that these discs started life
as media for storing computer information and some features were designed
for that rather than specialised video use.
Magazines often suggest trying different brands of disc because makers use
different dyes in them. That's fine but I have not found many brands with
plain labels that you can print onto.
I really like the DVD subtitling system. On Adobe Encore you list the times
for each title to start and end, then put in the text. The finished result
is just a single text file which you import into the program. So if you have
prepared the French text, then to do the German one you just copy the file,
leave the timings alone and just paste the new text over the old. Job done!
It may be worth checking out the possibilities - e.g. you could, with the
help of the happy couple, have subtitles which provide the names of each
guest as they arrive at the church. If you felt peeved by the couple you
might try hiding your real feelings in the guise of a Czech subtitling track
... but maybe that is dangerous!
Cheers
Dave
I'm no expert - maybe Alan Colegrave will wade in here - but home produced
DVDs do have problems. Several other DVDs at UNICA hiccuped occasionally.
In fact as judges in the video age we almost always have to ignore glitches
in pictures because they may have occurred in projection as opposed to making
of the work. We were not so tolerant about visible splices in cine days.
I believe that some wedding videographers actually give away a cheap DVD
player to every couple which employs them. I guess they check that their
preferred discs play well on the machines they choose. The cheapest players
are a throw-away item now and ironically they tend to play a wider range
of discs than expensive ones. Their mechanisms may not last so long or generate
an image you would be happy to project ... but for normal home use on a tv
set they are fine.
You are probably right to think that profit and market-share are behind the
confusion of formats. Don't forget, however, that these discs started life
as media for storing computer information and some features were designed
for that rather than specialised video use.
Magazines often suggest trying different brands of disc because makers use
different dyes in them. That's fine but I have not found many brands with
plain labels that you can print onto.
I really like the DVD subtitling system. On Adobe Encore you list the times
for each title to start and end, then put in the text. The finished result
is just a single text file which you import into the program. So if you have
prepared the French text, then to do the German one you just copy the file,
leave the timings alone and just paste the new text over the old. Job done!
It may be worth checking out the possibilities - e.g. you could, with the
help of the happy couple, have subtitles which provide the names of each
guest as they arrive at the church. If you felt peeved by the couple you
might try hiding your real feelings in the guise of a Czech subtitling track
... but maybe that is dangerous!
Cheers
Dave
-
Michael Slowe
Re: DVD compatibility
"Ken Wilson" <forums@theiac.org.uk> wrote:
Can someone please tell me what to do in order for this not to happen.
On the matter of DVD's I agree that this is a problem since they seem by
far the most convenient way to distribute our films - although you should
remember that the image will not be as good as on DV tape. The problem seems
to be in the burning of the disc. We obviously would like to use the highest
possible data rate (9?) but I find that a slightly lower rate has more chance
of being played properly on some machines. I am also advised that the speed
of the burning process can be important and a slow rate is best although
modern discs do quote high speeds. I have no problems with discs prepared
by West End production houses but that is expensive and time consuming.
Perhaps Tom Hardwick could, if he reads this thread, contribute because he
produces very good discs for his wedding clients and very rarely has problems.
Of course the DVD's of commercial films give no problems because they are
not burnt but pressed from a specially prepared master using sophisticated
coding equipment. Ken, I don't think it is a format problem at all because
this was agreed very early on, although there is a battle going on currently
to fix a High Def. DVD format. Blu-Tooth will probably win this one. I
can confirm that the slightly older expensive players are more likely to
give trouble with home burnt discs than the cheapest player from Asda, odd
that.
First I want to apologise if all Ken's post is appearing again in its entirety.Hello to you all.I have given this a different heading as I wanted to take
things off at a tangent, but I still wanted to link to a previous posting.
So here goes.
On his UNICA posting, Dave mentions a Korean film on DVD which would not
play it`s subtitles. I agree with his view that this sounds bizarre, but
do not fully comprehend all the technicalities of the system. As commercial
DVDs have their subtitles hidden away somewhere on the disc, should you
need
them, then I suppose it is feasable that a disc intended for another TV
system,
may not be able to access all the data. It seems all DVD players/ recorders
and discs are not the same and this may explain why this was the case. But
then, that`s probably being far too logical.Perhaps someone with more technical
knowledge can explain it?
DVD compatibility seems to be a big problem for me now, as I seem to be
making
discs to send all over the UK. People in the IAC are asking for copies of
my films and DVD seems to be an easy solution. Of course, Mini DV is the
much preferred option, but as my Sony DVD recorder can copy a disc at high
speed, it is much faster doing it this way.
I also make wedding DVDs and here again, (I have discovered) not everone
can play all discs. Minus R (-R) seems to be the generally favoured format
and I would guess that most people can play these without problems.
A few DVD players seem to handle Plus R (+R) discs better and a very few
don`t like either much. The problems seem to be pausing/ freezing, skipping
and returning to the start. For my own purposes (being logical again) I
have
just bought a Sony DVD player from Argos. As the recorder is a Sony machine,
I bought a Sony player (for only £69.99.)
This seems to play recordable discs perfectly. Three cheers for Sony, but
what about everyone else?
After the VHS Vs Betamax issue in the 70s, why didn`t manufacturers get
their
act together this time and sort out a single format? Could it be commercial
gain for the "winner"? How cynical of me. But it is a real pain not knowing
which disc to send to people.
What do readers think?
On a slightly different note: .......................Bong!
A couple more entries arrived today for our FICTION film competition. It
baffles me sometimes whether people ever bother to read anything properly.
Surely a FICTION film competition speaks for itself? A competition for FICTION
films. Nothing against non-fiction (I have made some myself) but this is
an idea to promote FICTION films.
Why then have I had one entry sent (on DVD) which from the synopsis seems
to clearly indicate that this is a documentary? Aaarrrgghh.
Ken.
P.S. Thanks to those of you on this site who have sent a film in to us.
Can someone please tell me what to do in order for this not to happen.
On the matter of DVD's I agree that this is a problem since they seem by
far the most convenient way to distribute our films - although you should
remember that the image will not be as good as on DV tape. The problem seems
to be in the burning of the disc. We obviously would like to use the highest
possible data rate (9?) but I find that a slightly lower rate has more chance
of being played properly on some machines. I am also advised that the speed
of the burning process can be important and a slow rate is best although
modern discs do quote high speeds. I have no problems with discs prepared
by West End production houses but that is expensive and time consuming.
Perhaps Tom Hardwick could, if he reads this thread, contribute because he
produces very good discs for his wedding clients and very rarely has problems.
Of course the DVD's of commercial films give no problems because they are
not burnt but pressed from a specially prepared master using sophisticated
coding equipment. Ken, I don't think it is a format problem at all because
this was agreed very early on, although there is a battle going on currently
to fix a High Def. DVD format. Blu-Tooth will probably win this one. I
can confirm that the slightly older expensive players are more likely to
give trouble with home burnt discs than the cheapest player from Asda, odd
that.
-
Dave Watterson
Editing your posts
"Michael Slowe" <michael.slowe@btinternet.com> wrote:
do not need in your one.
Click your mouse or trackball and drag the cursor over the text you do not
need ... it will be highlighted ... then press the delete key on your keyboard.
If you delete something by mistake hold the ctrl key and press Z or on an
Apple hold the apple key and press z.
It does help all reader if we only quote bits of the previous message which
relate to what we say in the new one.
Dave
Certainly, Michael. Just delete the parts of the previous posting which youFirst I want to apologise if all Ken's post is appearing again in its entirety.
Can someone please tell me what to do in order for this not to happen.
do not need in your one.
Click your mouse or trackball and drag the cursor over the text you do not
need ... it will be highlighted ... then press the delete key on your keyboard.
If you delete something by mistake hold the ctrl key and press Z or on an
Apple hold the apple key and press z.
It does help all reader if we only quote bits of the previous message which
relate to what we say in the new one.
Dave
-
Michael Slowe
Re: Editing your posts
Thank you Dave, prompt and obliging as always despite your exhaustion!
-
tom hardwick
Re: DVD compatibility
Michael - to delete chunks of the message you're replying to simply highlight
the section and press 'delete'. Look - I've done it on your posting, leaving
just these few lines.
original DVD players that popped up in about 1998 were never designed to
handle what was to become 'home burnt' DVDs, as the technology simply didn't
exist. The newer cheap players from China simply use computer drives and
as such play anything.
And to be pedantic in the extreme Ken, there's DVD-R (pronounced DVD ah)
and there's DVD+R. The first was never a minus, and still isn't - it simply
describes recordable DVD blanks, the same way CD-R describes recordable CDs.
tom.
the section and press 'delete'. Look - I've done it on your posting, leaving
just these few lines.
A typo on your part - you meant to say Blu-Ray rather than Blue Tooth. Theto fix a High Def. DVD format. Blu-Tooth will probably win this one. I
can confirm that the slightly older expensive players are more likely to
give trouble with home burnt discs than the cheapest player from Asda, odd
that.
original DVD players that popped up in about 1998 were never designed to
handle what was to become 'home burnt' DVDs, as the technology simply didn't
exist. The newer cheap players from China simply use computer drives and
as such play anything.
And to be pedantic in the extreme Ken, there's DVD-R (pronounced DVD ah)
and there's DVD+R. The first was never a minus, and still isn't - it simply
describes recordable DVD blanks, the same way CD-R describes recordable CDs.
tom.
-
Ned C
Re: DVD compatibility
For this year's AMPS Festival we had a mixture of NTSC and PAL DVDs. All the
NTSC DVDs played perfectly in our $36 CyberHome 300 DVD player. This cheap
DVD player actually transcodes to NTSC from PAL and we found that some of
the PAL entries played and transcoded and others did not. For example, "Forgotten
Hero", "Melissa", ""225" played and transcoded perfectly, "One day at a time"
suffered minor sound glitches at some of the transitions, Paul Chater's "A
Quiet Country Lane" froze several times. It would be interesting to know
if the success in playing or not is related to the MPEG2 transcoding software
rather than the players. We were completely in p[laying out the PAL winners
to a DSR11 from the CyberHome and making miniDV copies for the compilation,
Ned C
NTSC DVDs played perfectly in our $36 CyberHome 300 DVD player. This cheap
DVD player actually transcodes to NTSC from PAL and we found that some of
the PAL entries played and transcoded and others did not. For example, "Forgotten
Hero", "Melissa", ""225" played and transcoded perfectly, "One day at a time"
suffered minor sound glitches at some of the transitions, Paul Chater's "A
Quiet Country Lane" froze several times. It would be interesting to know
if the success in playing or not is related to the MPEG2 transcoding software
rather than the players. We were completely in p[laying out the PAL winners
to a DSR11 from the CyberHome and making miniDV copies for the compilation,
Ned C
-
Peter Copestake
Re: DVD compatibility
"Ned C" <ned@ampsvideo.com> wrote:
Peter C.
What about Japan? Is there a different system again there?For this year's AMPS Festival we had a mixture of NTSC and PAL DVDs. All
the
NTSC DVDs played perfectly in our $36 CyberHome 300 DVD player. This cheap
DVD player actually transcodes to NTSC from PAL and we found that some of
the PAL entries played and transcoded and others did not. For example, "Forgotten
Hero", "Melissa", ""225" played and transcoded perfectly, "One day at a
time"
suffered minor sound glitches at some of the transitions, Paul Chater's
"A
Quiet Country Lane" froze several times. It would be interesting to know
if the success in playing or not is related to the MPEG2 transcoding software
rather than the players. We were completely in p[laying out the PAL winners
to a DSR11 from the CyberHome and making miniDV copies for the compilation,
Ned C
Peter C.
-
Ned C
Re: DVD compatibility
Japan is NTSC and just yesterday evening I watched a DVD from Japan on a regular
Sony DVD player, played perfectly. So far we have not had any problems playing
NTSC DVDs regardless whjere they have come from. The PAL DVDs are variable,
is it the media used? the method of transcoding to MPEG2? something to do
with the original DV? There appears to be some variable that our Cyberhome
DVD player does not like,
Ned C
"Peter Copestake" <copestak@fish.co.uk> wrote:
Sony DVD player, played perfectly. So far we have not had any problems playing
NTSC DVDs regardless whjere they have come from. The PAL DVDs are variable,
is it the media used? the method of transcoding to MPEG2? something to do
with the original DV? There appears to be some variable that our Cyberhome
DVD player does not like,
Ned C
"Peter Copestake" <copestak@fish.co.uk> wrote:
"Ned C" <ned@ampsvideo.com> wrote:
For this year's AMPS Festival we had a mixture of NTSC and PAL DVDs. All
the
NTSC DVDs played perfectly in our $36 CyberHome 300 DVD player. This cheap
DVD player actually transcodes to NTSC from PAL and we found that some
of
the PAL entries played and transcoded and others did not. For example,
"Forgotten
Hero", "Melissa", ""225" played and transcoded perfectly, "One day at a
time"
suffered minor sound glitches at some of the transitions, Paul Chater's
"A
Quiet Country Lane" froze several times. It would be interesting to know
if the success in playing or not is related to the MPEG2 transcoding software
rather than the players. We were completely in p[laying out the PAL winners
to a DSR11 from the CyberHome and making miniDV copies for the compilation,
Ned C
What about Japan? Is there a different system again there?
Peter C.
-
Dave Watterson
Re: DVD compatibility
"Ned C" <ned@ampsvideo.com> wrote:
just MPEG audio if you wish, whereas NTSC ones must have either PCM or Dolby
Digital. Is that a clue?
Dave
I am an absolute beginner in this area but I know that PAL DVDs can haveThe PAL DVDs are variable,
is it the media used? the method of transcoding to MPEG2? something to do
with the original DV? There appears to be some variable that our Cyberhome
DVD player does not like,
just MPEG audio if you wish, whereas NTSC ones must have either PCM or Dolby
Digital. Is that a clue?
Dave
-
Ian Gardner
Re: DVD compatibility
"Peter Copestake" <copestak@fish.co.uk> wrote:
some are on DVD. The worst films are the ones that have been encoded by standalone
recorders, like the ones that record from the TV. Most films encoded on the
computer are fine.
Ian Gardner
Club Secretary.
We have film nights at our Club (The Isle of Wight Video Camera Club) and"Ned C" <ned@ampsvideo.com> wrote:
For this year's AMPS Festival we had a mixture of NTSC and PAL DVDs. All
the
NTSC DVDs played perfectly in our $36 CyberHome 300 DVD player. This cheap
DVD player actually transcodes to NTSC from PAL and we found that some
of
the PAL entries played and transcoded and others did not. For example,
"Forgotten
Hero", "Melissa", ""225" played and transcoded perfectly, "One day at a
time"
suffered minor sound glitches at some of the transitions, Paul Chater's
"A
Quiet Country Lane" froze several times. It would be interesting to know
if the success in playing or not is related to the MPEG2 transcoding software
rather than the players. We were completely in p[laying out the PAL winners
to a DSR11 from the CyberHome and making miniDV copies for the compilation,
Ned C
What about Japan? Is there a different system again there?
Peter C.
some are on DVD. The worst films are the ones that have been encoded by standalone
recorders, like the ones that record from the TV. Most films encoded on the
computer are fine.
Ian Gardner
Club Secretary.