Wobble Cam

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TimStannard
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Wobble Cam

Post by TimStannard » Tue Mar 12, 2019 5:16 pm

I thought it was worth sharing this here, although I'm pretty certain I can predict the concensus of opinion.

On another forum someone (who is a member of a UK club, and maybe even the IAC) posted this film for comment, under the heading "Tripod? Amazing new Mercedes promo" (Having shown it at his own club he said it set the cat among the pigeons among the old guard)

https://youtu.be/vsGrFYD5Nfs

One of the interesting responses included a link to another video, which pretty much helped clarify in my head my own thoughts on the matter (although this is not totally relevant to the Mercedes Benz example above as it concerns itself solely with action films.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=evQZLw33htE

if you want to see the short discussion in which the OP, yours truly, and a couple of pros respond it's here: http://www.videoforums.co.uk/threads/52 ... edes-promo
Tim
Proud to be an amateur film maker - I do it for the love of it

ned c
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Re: Wobble Cam

Post by ned c » Thu Mar 14, 2019 5:18 pm

Some thoughts:
1. The Mercedes ad tells a story which is easy to follow with a satisfactory resolution.
2. "The Old Guard" what still here? The reason the IAC is struggling to grow membership.
3. I loved jochicago's comment "the DP who allowed this should be fired". I am sure the style was agreed long before the ad was shot and the DP fully aware of what was proposed; does jo actually believe that a DP can override a director's/producer's stylistic decision on a high end ad? I am sure this ad cost a small fortune!

It is pointless complaining about films aimed at the largely adolescent audience for superhero and comic book films. I am aware that I am not the target audience so avoid them, there are enough grown-up films to meet my viewing needs.

ned c

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TimStannard
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Re: Wobble Cam

Post by TimStannard » Sat Mar 16, 2019 1:20 pm

ned c wrote:
Thu Mar 14, 2019 5:18 pm
Some thoughts:
1. The Mercedes ad tells a story which is easy to follow with a satisfactory resolution.
Which it would have done even better if it hadn't had the distraction of the shakey camerawork (which took me "out of the moment"). I doubt anyone could argue it would have lost anything without it in several shots (but I'd love to enter into that discussion).
ned c wrote:
Thu Mar 14, 2019 5:18 pm
2. "The Old Guard" what still here? The reason the IAC is struggling to grow membership.
Note here as in this forum, but at his club (in the north of England). The Old Guard not liking newer "styles" is perfectly reasonable. What is unreasonable is a blanket disregard for anything in a newer style (and we do see this rather too often).
ned c wrote:
Thu Mar 14, 2019 5:18 pm
3. I loved jochicago's comment "the DP who allowed this should be fired". I am sure the style was agreed long before the ad was shot and the DP fully aware of what was proposed; does jo actually believe that a DP can override a director's/producer's stylistic decision on a high end ad? I am sure this ad cost a small fortune!
I suspect he was deliberately overstating the point - he was certainly worked up about it!
ned c wrote:
Thu Mar 14, 2019 5:18 pm
It is pointless complaining about films aimed at the largely adolescent audience for superhero and comic book films. I am aware that I am not the target audience so avoid them, there are enough grown-up films to meet my viewing needs.
Whilst I agree in terms of content, I do not entirely agree about style. Film making is just a form of communication and the director's responsibility should be to communicate events and emotion as clearly as he or she can with no distraction. Action films in particular are about a sequence of events. The examples from the Bourne series showed how fast cutting used well can add to the energy whilst still clearly showing who is doing what, where and to whom. The YouTube vid then contrasts other action sequences where it's just fast cutting and we totally lose track of what's actually happening. On occasions when I watch action films I will often find I suddenly lose interest in a scene and this study explains the reason well. I've literally "lost the plot" and so I am no longer commited to the scene.

How often have you watched a car chase and felt its gone on too long? Most likely it has felt too long because of one of two things: repetitiveness or confusion. In the former we can follow what's going on and don't need more of the same. In the latter we have lost the plot (who is doing what to whom) and the only relevance now is the outcome.

This is not about old style vs new style - it's about communication. "Old Style" would suggest jump cuts should be avoided at all costs. "New Style" frequently involves jump cuts (primarily in vlogging, but increasingly used in feature film) and where used well it aids communication. A good use of a new style (my opinion)

Equally the hand held look can add dynamics to a shot - perhaps taking the viewer into the action in a high octane scene or adding a nervous tension in a POV shot in athriller or horror. But here it serves a purpose. It may serve a purpose in the Mercedes ad (and indeed it does in some shots), but I find it distracting in the main.

(Incidentally, I wouldn't say I'm complaining - though perhaps you were referring to jochicago's comments - I'm just observing and making comment)
Tim
Proud to be an amateur film maker - I do it for the love of it

Michael Slowe
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Re: Wobble Cam

Post by Michael Slowe » Sun Mar 17, 2019 1:31 pm

I loved this film, great atmos, beautifully shot and edited. I was not too disturbed by the shaky opening shots but equally, they could have done just as well without them in my opinion. I think the intention was to indicate the alarm that the appearance of the vehicle caused. After those first few seconds I can find no fault. The absence of a tripod thereafter was essential to the mood of the piece. Styles of film making have changed over the years, although not greatly from Eisenstein's famous 'Odessa Steps' scene from I think the 1920s. If it works, then accept it, judge on the effect, not on semantics.

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TimStannard
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Re: Wobble Cam

Post by TimStannard » Sun Mar 17, 2019 9:31 pm

Michael Slowe wrote:
Sun Mar 17, 2019 1:31 pm
I think the intention was to indicate the alarm that the appearance of the vehicle caused.
I hadn't considered that. Now I have, I don't believe youre right. the opening shots are of people pulling a plough and it begins before they are aware of the car's existance. However, I'm prepared to accept that for motivation when the villagers see the car travelling through the village.
Michael Slowe wrote:
Sun Mar 17, 2019 1:31 pm
If it works, then accept it, judge on the effect, not on semantics.
Agreed. And the effect on me was to make me realise I was watching a film rather than get involved in the story.
Tim
Proud to be an amateur film maker - I do it for the love of it

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