You Tube .......again

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TimStannard
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Re: You Tube .......again

Post by TimStannard » Tue Jan 12, 2016 12:54 am

I suspect the rates were never intended to provide an income for composers/musicians, but were simply a means of covering the costs (to PPL & MCPS) of administering it. There is probably an arguments that says if it's bona fide amateur, then we are happy to help. The licences are, I'm guessing, simply a means of establishing someone is genuinely making amateur (ie no payment received) movies.
Of course it wouldn't prevent people "cheating" but if one has the licence one is less inclined to cheat.

And, equally, the internet rather of changes all this. I want to show my (eg) kids singing new lyrics to a Beatles tune on the internet and I'd really like to licence it properly, but there's no way i could afford the licence that would really be required. So I buy the IAC licence and feel I'm semi legit (although, of course there's no such thing)

John (R) hits on the most important point though - and that's control over where one's creations are used. Lennon and McCartney would probably have a fit at what I've done, but they'd probably be rather more agitated if I'd used it in (say) extreme right wing propaganda.

It would be interesting to see how copyright will be dealt with after another 50 years when the law might have caught up with digital technology. I have a feeling IP rights might change dramatically and copyright become a thing of the past. I've no idea what that would do for creativity and artistry.
Tim
Proud to be an amateur film maker - I do it for the love of it

John Roberts
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Re: You Tube .......again

Post by John Roberts » Wed Jan 13, 2016 10:01 pm

John Smith wrote:The only plus would be that your music would be being heard and appreciated but now in a much wider arena than the original licenses were intended for.
TimStannard wrote:the most important point though - and that's control over where one's creations are used. Lennon and McCartney would probably have a fit at what I've done, but they'd probably be rather more agitated if I'd used it in (say) extreme right wing propaganda.
I agree with both the above points! The major issue is as Tim states, having control over one's work to ensure it is not used in a context against the creator's wishes or original intentions. In reference to John's point, which I agree with in principle (after all if no-one knows who the composer/artist is then it is no exposure whatsoever to them) control is also needed. Some 'kind soul' decided to post my entire album on the now-defunkt Limewire just after the album's release, on the grounds that it would give my work more exposure. All that happened was that interested people downloaded it for free and didn't buy the CD!

There is also an interesting clause in the IAC agreements, regarding the BPI licence, and I quote (including the bold text): "The names of all instrumental groups, bands, orchestras, choruses, solo artists and/or performers shall NOT be identified in subtitles or credits." I assume this is to avoid the possibility of any artist gaining financially from increased sales on the back of a non-commercial film, but it does mean that unfortunately John's point about increased exposure becomes null and void if no mention is allowed of who actually performed the music!

TimStannard wrote:It would be interesting to see how copyright will be dealt with after another 50 years when the law might have caught up with digital technology. I have a feeling IP rights might change dramatically and copyright become a thing of the past. I've no idea what that would do for creativity and artistry.
Good grief, who knows, Tim? It could go one of two ways I imagine, both extreme. It'll either be a complete free for all or...

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/travel/trave ... LEGAL.html


Anyway, enough of my waffling, but just to throw a spanner in the works, whilst reading the IAC copyright clearance scheme pamphlet that arrived with my licences, clause 'g' of the MCPS licence states:

(...permits the licencee to record (dub) musical works...) "For inclusion, as clips and short videos, in YouTube and Google Video, provided there is no financial gain and no commercial advertising is attached. Such clips may be "embedded" in IAC and club websites so long as they are hosted by YouTube/Google Video.'

It's all as clear as mud :lol:

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Dave Watterson
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Re: You Tube .......again

Post by Dave Watterson » Wed Jan 13, 2016 11:47 pm

I think (even I was not around then) that when the IAC licences were agreed, the industry feared that giving the artist's name etc might associate them and their record label with a film ... something they would not want without the power of veto.

As for the YouTube Google Video reference ... that refers to the often mentioned deal YouTube made with the main music agencies to pay something for the use of the work they control. That YouTube deal applies to anyone who uses it, not just IAC members.

John Roberts
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Re: You Tube .......again

Post by John Roberts » Thu Jan 14, 2016 1:03 am

My apologies for going round in circles :lol:

Lee Prescott
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Re: You Tube .......again

Post by Lee Prescott » Thu Jan 14, 2016 3:32 pm

oooooo - Youtube and U!!! :)

Yeah well my having just spun out of John's "circles" and Dave's comments about
the industry feared that giving the artist's name etc. might associate them and their record label with a film ...
I always understood this was concerning the quality of any dubbed, copied, recording! Of course this was long before this "digital (quality) age"! Probably back to when I used to wind up the old gramophone! [or for our over the Pond friends Phonograph)!

An interesting point though is that in OZ i.e. FAMM, I understand that they MUST credit at the end of any video film the Names of any artists et al they dub! Certainly in all their video films I have been privileged to judge these always appear without exception.

LEE..... 8)

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