Amateur and Professional??????

[Frank Maxwell]

Now that the New Year has started many will be editing their Xmas video ?. The other day a question came up and a topic which has been debated over and over again. What is a professional and what is an amateur?.
There is no difference only monetary gain.
When we go and watch a film we say afterwards that was good or a load of rubbish. They are the pro's because they got paid and we pay.
Give an amateur £1 million to make a movie and he will turn a product out good or bad. Once you pay to see his work the amateur tag is removed.
Few video clubs will venture out of the comfort zone and make any sort of video which the public would pay and see. But that is not the aim of video clubs. So are video clubs in the amateur category ? No they are in the knowledge base arena.

Change of topic. Any person editing in FCP-X finish your work as I spent the Christmas period editing a Polish war video. As Apple now have launched FCP10.1 and there are a few alterations. Is this a professional software or amateur.???? I only have one category at times? "BLOODY NIGHTMARE".
But fun when things go right.

I hope 2014 will be a good year. Watch out computer companies will say the same to get your money.

[Dave Watterson]

We have been over this ground many times ... as the equipment and programs available to us for home use get closer and closer to the things used by the professionals it is increasingly possible for an "amateur" to produce work which is as good as many a professional does.

But our hobby has only a few people with the talent and desire to make that sort of top-class work. Most of us accept our limitations, while admiring the people who can do better.

So what can we do for the majority of people in our hobby?
Should we focus on basics?
How can we encourage everyone to do just a bit better than they are now?

[col lamb]

There is very little difference, with the likes of Hitfilm being used to make cinema releases, Avid and Final Cut also being industry standards. Premiere made the leap into serious Pro use when Apple screwed up the initial release of FCPX which was supposedly so bug ridden many users fled.

With Premiere now being subscription based and updates being made available as and when they have been completed this in turn has led to problems with users updating only to find major problems with their system.

The golden rule is..........if it aint broke dont fix it.

As for the future I have been using my iPad more and more and even made a few short videos on it using iMovie and Pinnacle's equivalent, so easy so quick and so cheap.

It is the generations who make movies this way that we should be encouraging by specific categories within BIAFF, even if a team has to trawl youtube and vimeo etc for movies and make an award to the movie maker even though they have not submitted it directly

[Michael Slowe]

Col, your last point rings a bell with me. Recently I have been approached by an American organisation organising an on line film competition. They select films from entrants who may apply but in my case they 'pre selected' one of mine that they'd seen on Vimeo. Another organisation asked whether they could use one of my films that they'd also seen on line, for a food DVD they are compiling, and then circulating. And, currently, a German based record company wants to send out one of my films with a reissue of some classical music CD's. All from seeing on line films, so you are right, we do not have to submit directly to gain recognition. On the amateur or professional debate, I hasten to add, I never seek or obtain any financial benefit from this situation, on the contrary, I'm having to deal with the copyright issues involved, which might well cost me.

[ned c]

Where to start as this opener seems to have hit every hot topic except judging!

1. The professional v amateur discussion does need some resolution when high end professional actors and a professional crew get together to raid the "amateur" world. Many amateurs make fine films that can stand their own (vide Michael Slowe's post) but most of us meet Dave's "middle of the road" level of skill. It is interesting that the opening statement of the BIAFF rules is "only open to bona fide amateur film makers." As this defines the MAKERS not the film and as surely "makers" means all the people involved then the appearance of a face famed on TV suggests this rule is broken or ignored or both. If the competition is really amateur then anyone who is or has been employed in the production or post production of film or TV is excluded. I think we can allow distribution and exhibition as they employ very different skills. This will exclude the wedding and event film makers many of whom started in the ranks of amateurs but are now professionals. So if the hobbyist is to be served than then the "bona fide" amateur rule must be enforced, it just needs honesty on the part of the participants and rigor on the part of the judges. Alternatively define the entries as "non-commercial" which any group making a film for fun may enter provided no-one is paid and the film is not to be used to generate income. You could have two classes "N-C" and "Amateur" if the IAC wants to serve both worlds.

2. What is the role of video clubs? And what is the role of the IAC in relation to them? Are the Regions part of the IAC or separate organizations? Does the IAC have an International role or is that just UNICA? These are all interlocking subjects and are important as the world of film making at every level has changed so much since the digital revolution. The current version of the video club has a very limited future (OK there are one or two successes but when the management burns out they too will fail). If the IAC sees itself as serving the traditional clubs then it too has a dim future although it has a tremendous potential if it gets its audience right. The BIAFF is of course the jewel in its crown but how long can it depend upon the good will of armies of volunteers? No, I don't have the answers but i have some suggestions that may be worth discussing.

3. Final Cut; I have been a Mac user since the G3 and EditDV changing to FCP at v2 and continuing through variations of machines and releases up to FC Suite 3. When FCX came out I found myself with a mountain of projects stored as old FCP edit files which now faced an uncertain future due the complete incompatibility between FCP and FCX. Apple run on a degree of arrogance I find breathtaking and with little respect for their minority users as my heap of now obsolete Firewire external hard drives attest. When you make the sort of money from iTunes and Apps who cares about the small volume professional user! I am all for progress but please some degree of backwards compatibility so that we can catch up without having to retool everything. Now a new machine that cannot be internally expanded; those expensive add-on boards I have in my Mac cannot be ported over. Well at last it looks as if I am heading to Microsoft world for my editing!!

Enough I hear you say; who is this wretched American (actually I'm not; just married to one) with too much to say.

Have a great New Year

ned c

[col lamb]

Interesting Ned.

Am v Pro will never be resolved within the IAC, nor will a definition acceptable to all be agreed, there will remain the ambiguities.

To me a more simple answer is that no financial payments either directly or in kind shall be made between the producers of the movie and participants.

Therefore production costs would be limited to equipment, props, set and transport.

The transport costs would be for set, equipment, and props and not personnel.

As for clubs, we have noticed that you are very sceptical about them, but and it's a big one, without the clubs the IAC would be a shadow of what it is. Each club makes a financial contribution directly to the IAC, and members of each club have a sizeable number who are IAC members in their own right. So both need each other, both need to be more outgoing and supportive of others, the plodding along mentality of it works or it's too much effort has to go, we need to be more dynamic. We need top quality marketing and advertising personnel involved in the organization. We also need those involved in the running of the IAC to be more open and communicative and present here in these forums.

Regarding Apple, I am a convert but only as far as the iPad. Never would I buy a Mac, for the exact reasons you have stated, a well specified PC (as per my sticky post) will be way cheaper than a Mac and way cheaper to expand. PC editing, well if I was starting again, Avid, Edius, or Hitfilm would be on my check out list

[TimStannard]

You could have two classes "N-C" and "Amateur" if the IAC wants to serve both worlds.

Although there are problems with this (making the distinction between what is N-C and what is amateur being a massive hurdle, for one) this has some merit, but it highlights another issue.

Perhaps some of the "true amateurs" like Michael Slowe and Robert Lorrimer are genuinely interested in how their films fare when pitched against n-c films made by professionals with access to professional facilities. (These are perhaps not the best examples as I don't believe either of these two gentlemen are "pot hunters" - but it illustrates my point)

[Michael Slowe]

Actually Tim, the answer is that we don't fare well at all when our films are in the mix with professional productions. Speaking personally (Bob Lorrimer may disagree), I am sometimes surprised when I see the selected films at a 'professional' festival into which I entered. Whilst some are brilliant, there are some, which, to be honest, that I considered inferior to mine (I would think that wouldn't I!). There is a gulf though,no doubt about that. The main consideration for me, is that we have the freedom to make a film without any external pressure as to genre, content or time scale. That is a priceless privilege.

[TimStannard]

Thanks for the info Michael - are you suggesting that judges in professional comeptitions somehow know whether the film has been made by amateurs or pros?

However:

The main consideration for me, is that we have the freedom to make a film without any external pressure as to genre, content or time scale. That is a priceless privilege.

Whilst I'm not (yet?) in the position of having been commissioned to make anything (and the restrictions this may place upon me) - I totally agree.

[Michael Slowe]

No Tim, the judges for festivals don't know or care about the distinctions between amateur or professional (and I don't think any judges should, but that is a whole different matter). It is simply that films entered in the wider world's festivals are of a higher standard, by and large, than ours. Nothing to do with equipment or access to actors, just artistic skill and imagination.

[TimStannard]

Very relieved to hear it, Michael. And I entirely agree - judges shouldn't know or care and I wonder sometimes whether we shouldn't (at our club) insist on any makers' identification being removed from films - tough, of course, most makers' work is identifiable within a few seconds by fellow club members)