1 2 3 4 5 STARS BIAFF 2013

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Peter Copestake
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Re: 1 2 3 4 5 STARS BIAFF 2013

Post by Peter Copestake »

Well,Tom, 4* "may however have minor flaws which detrimentally affect the audience appeal."
So it depends on the audience, in this case the judges, and what affects the appeal to them and I suppose we expect BIAFF judges to be as affected as we, experienced amateurs, are.

What I realise, as a maker of what you call 'worthy documentaries' (I hope and believe they are worth something) that however well they are made they have to be of something of exceptional interest to gain more than 3 stars.
As long as we know that this is the case I'm happy. I can't expect judges to agree that what I think is important necessarily is.

But a worthy documentary may be in competition with, say, a film about someone attempting suicide but failing, presented as humour, which I think is distasteful in the extreme whatever the outcome, then, however well-made that film is, the appeal to me is less, and the 'worthiness' less, than something that records a real event that cannot be recaptured or an occupation which few people will see.

In other words, you and I have different opinions as to what makes a film good, and the relative value of documentary and drama, and no amount of rationalising about commercial cinema will alter that. We both just have to accept it.
Peter Copestake
ned c
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Re: 1 2 3 4 5 STARS BIAFF 2013

Post by ned c »

Just to help me can someone compile a list of technical faults please.

Thanks

ned c
tom hardwick
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Re: 1 2 3 4 5 STARS BIAFF 2013

Post by tom hardwick »

Have you read my current Positive Image article in FVM, Ned?
ned c
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Re: 1 2 3 4 5 STARS BIAFF 2013

Post by ned c »

Hasn't arrived yet here in the ex colonies.

ned c
col lamb
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Re: 1 2 3 4 5 STARS BIAFF 2013

Post by col lamb »

Tom

In the light of your post I have just read for the first time your article in FVM, great advice, a job well done.

I am sure many will put it to one side and re-read, digest the advice, plan the shoot for the next BIAFF movie and follow the post production advice, if they/we all do this then what a BIAFF it should be next year and just how difficult the judges job will be
Col Lamb
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tom hardwick
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Re: 1 2 3 4 5 STARS BIAFF 2013

Post by tom hardwick »

Thanks Col. The silence surrounding my 'How to win Film Competitions' was beginning to worry me.
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Willy
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Re: 1 2 3 4 5 STARS BIAFF 2013

Post by Willy »

I have, Tom. A very interesting list. Things we must think about each time when we make a film. A very constructive and positive article. I would call it even very impressive. I will read it out loud at my club next time. I don't like the title "Your film is in competition", but you are right. We are in competition with other filmmakers each time when we enter a film. However competing doesn't mean rivaling. I hate rivalry. I hope you understand what I mean. I always encourage the best filmmakers to enter their best films (in my opinion!). Each time I "create" my own competitors. That's part of my fun.

Take one sentence in the introduction of your article: "All the judges ((at BIAFF) are in lean-forward, concentration-mode, acutely aware that potentially this one screening is the only chance they'll get to evaluate the feel, pace, storyline, editing, photography and overall competence of the filmmaker. It's a lot to ask of the three people that sit in judgement because potentionally they've been in this mode for hours if not days on end." This is something we must not forget.

Of course I was very happy to hear that forum-friends enjoyed my films at BIAFF (see other thread). Many thanks for these very kind words. Now I am making my next films, while thinking of Tom's words like : "The film has been going 10 seconds, maybe less. Yet in this very short time, all of the judges know. Expectations are raised or hopes dashed..." I will keep your article on my desk when making my films, Tom. " Leave the judge wanting more: make a shorter, snappier, more compact and pressure-cooked version of your film just for competition..." That's a very good advice, Tom. I failed (again) last time.
Willy Van der Linden
Peter Copestake
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Re: 1 2 3 4 5 STARS BIAFF 2013

Post by Peter Copestake »

I hope Tom will be glad, if he cares, to hear that I fully agree with Colin & Willy about the excellence of his advice. He won't perhaps mind if I add one point to his impressive list. Balance the sound. You (the film maker) know what the words of the drama/commentary are. Can they be heard by an audience? Tom says don't have music all the way through, to which I would add (but I guess this is a personal feeling) don't, generally, have music and background sound and speech competing. It may be only my hardness of hearing but too many different sounds make it harder to sort out the spoken word.
Tom will expect me to quibble over 'switch to 16:9'. He has already given me good advice on a camcorder to buy but this is real money to spend, not just a matter of switching. I still prefer 4:3 as I'm used to framing it, but I'm hoping to go WS. Has anyone else noticed the better (to my eyes at least) framing of the pictures on the AV page compared with the widescreen ones on the BIAFF pages? But if others do agree over that, notice that the film ones are actually printed wider than 16:9. Only their makers will know if they have been cropped or stretched. The AV ones are mostly shown about 14:9. I'm told the programme was shot 3:2, nearly 14:9, which is how I watch old TV programmes.
My only other comment is about how we have reached the point where the pressure on the judges is defining the sort of films we should submit and, while I entirely understand that longer films must be an extra strain on them, it is not really a happy state of affairs. I hope to be remembered, if at all, for producing meatier films than the juicy excerpts that are recommended for winning prizes.
Peter Copestake
Mike Shaw

Re: 1 2 3 4 5 STARS BIAFF 2013

Post by Mike Shaw »

The widescreen format - from conventional cinema 4:3 ratios through Cinemascope - is, I'd say, here to stay and accepted as 'the way things should look' for the moving picture. I far preferred the 4:3 format until forced into widescreen when buying a replacement TV. Now, 4:3 looks positively old hat and restricting - to me that is - so I guess its what you get used to.

The interesting thing I found in Tom's article is that the concepts are very similar to those fed to trainee 'pup' advertising copywriters: with an ad headline, you have just a few seconds to get the reader sufficiently interested to read further - or to impart the entire sales message! (The classics often quoted are "Do you seriously want to be rich?" - for an investment programme, or "As Used By The Heads of Europe" - for a new hair care product (read on), and "Chickies Eggs 5 pence each - this week only!" (entire message)).

Other concepts in Tom's article also apply in the copywriting/advertising world. It all boils down to the art/science of communication in general - whatever it is one is trying to communicate, whether sales messages or stories, people respond in similar ways. The other things copywriters are 'taught' are - "know your audience, and write accordingly" (meaning not everything one does will appeal to everyone who reads/watches), and - "always finish with a 'sparkle', a 'ting', a memorable 'high point'". That too can be applied to film-making: so often films finish in a pretty flat way - consider for example those 'joke' films that linger on long after the punch line with false facial expressions and so on - virtually killing the impact.

The big problem in many ad campaigns though is what is known as the Video Vampire ... one remembers the humour or the commercial or whatever, but not the product being advertised... not something we would need to worry about with our movies I guess!

Fascinating.
col lamb
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Re: 1 2 3 4 5 STARS BIAFF 2013

Post by col lamb »

Peter

The longer movies must not only be a strain on the judges but they were a strain on me at Chesterfield

I have back problems and I need to frequently stretch and move so whilst I did sit through two very long movies which were both excellent I really was wishing that they would end after 15 minutes

To take Tom's advice, surely less is more, cut down that masterpiece to a punchy 15 minutes, certainly one of the overly long movies I saw could have been better at 10-15 minutes as after 15 minutes it became a little repetitive

There again Tom's 10 seconds to impress criteria can sometimes go out of the window, I have just re-watched a certain movie about an Egg and the first 30 seconds are just about putting a couple of eggs on to boil, hardly cutting edge, hardly building up tension, quite relaxing really, yet the end result is a masterpiece of movie entertainment
Col Lamb
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tom hardwick
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Re: 1 2 3 4 5 STARS BIAFF 2013

Post by tom hardwick »

Ah but Col, l maintain that the first 10 seconds of Egg DO captivate you, do insist you don't flip channels. It may well be about boiling an egg but have you ever seen it shown in such a compelling way?
col lamb
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Re: 1 2 3 4 5 STARS BIAFF 2013

Post by col lamb »

Very true Tom
Col Lamb
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TimStannard
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Re: 1 2 3 4 5 STARS BIAFF 2013

Post by TimStannard »

tom hardwick wrote:Ah but Col, l maintain that the first 10 seconds of Egg DO captivate you, do insist you don't flip channels. It may well be about boiling an egg but have you ever seen it shown in such a compelling way?
Particularly as Bob employs a very clever device - naming the film "The Egg" yet showing two, prompting in the viewer the question "which one?" or "why?" :wink:
Tim
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ned c
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Re: 1 2 3 4 5 STARS BIAFF 2013

Post by ned c »

My copy of F&VM has arrived and Tom's review of what judges look for and how they react is spot on. The subjective nature of judging is well put although many still think that giving a numerical value is somehow more accurate but in truth it is just subjectivity with numbers.

This year for DOCUTAH screening teams of four have been recruited and the entries viewed by them and reports filed; yes a numeric evaluation is part of it but a lot of room for comments and a simple recommendation "should this film be screened at the Festival; why?" Each film is reviewed by three teams and there are 50 (yes 50) teams. So each entry is previewed by 12 people before it goes to the final selection. Obviously this requires a deal of organization; twice a week we can pick up and return films at the local university and if we preview 10 films we get a free ticket to the Festival screenings! When completed I will talk with the committee and see how it worked out.

ned c
Michael Slowe
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Re: 1 2 3 4 5 STARS BIAFF 2013

Post by Michael Slowe »

Sounds good Ned but I couldn't enter as my film (shorter version) at 33 minutes exceeded the limit. I don't think limits are a good idea, if the film is too long then judges will mark it down accordingly and it will have failed in its task. I've seen a six minute film that seemed too long and a forty five minuter that I wanted to see more of.
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