Club Films on Youtube

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Peter Copestake
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Club Films on Youtube

Post by Peter Copestake »

As it was the required method of entry, Pendle's short film in support of the local authority's application for Portas High Street Project funding (Google Nelson's Portas Pilot Project if you want to see it), one of our members did it for the club and the result was far better than the few examples that I have previously looked at, not being a great fan. The picture was great though originated only on SD, and it made me wonder whether putting more club films on under our club name would be a good thing or not.
I had previously felt, probably foolishly, unhappy about them going out of our control.

What have other clubs found? Does it attract new members? Are there any disadvantages?

We shall be deciding at the beginning of May whether to go ahead.

Peter.
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TimStannard
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Re: Club Films on Youtube

Post by TimStannard »

My favourite bit of that film is the way the maker has proudly inserted the word "Amateur" into Pendle Movie Makers! That's right up my street - pride in being amateur in the true sense of the word.

But I digress. I'm not entirely sure whether you're asking about posting club films on YouTube on individual members' accounts or on a club account.

I do think that in this day an age it is expected that any club will have examples of members/club films posted somewhere online. It is beneficial in that potential members get some idea of the level of competence of at least some members. in the main I think this is likely to prevent people being put off because the films are of a quality beyond their aspirations. However, I don't think having films on YouTube is actually likely to attract members.

There are a couple of possible downsides: people can post "dislikes" - and plenty do for no apparent reason - and comments where people could post unflattering or abusive comments, but you can at least them off.

The other thing to watch out for is that members who already have a YouTube account may not be keen to have their films posted to a club account as well as this effectively "dilutes" the number of hits they receive.

At Staines we simply have a page on our website linking to individual members' YouTube channels.

Of course, you may consider a Vimeo account which has much more of a serious film makers reputation. The issue here is that fewer people are likely to search Video for "Nelson's Portas Pilot Project" than YouTube.
Tim
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Dave Watterson
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Re: Club Films on Youtube

Post by Dave Watterson »

On YouTube each account holder can choose to refuse to permit comments etc. Go to the film in your YouTube account, click "Edit" and amend the settings as you wish.

If a club embeds videos on the club website, those viewings still count to the video's total views because - in fact - they are being shown on YouTube. Think of it as a small window cut out of the club website, revealing the YouTube site under it, showing that movie.

Helpful members can choose to add the club web address to the details which appear under a video on YouTube (see the edit options mentioned above) or even to add the web address to the end of their films. Someone who enjoys their movie may just click through to see the club website.

Remember that if a club itself opens a YouTube account puts a movie online, then the club (not an individual member) should have the rights for music and any other copyright parts of the film. If the club embeds a member's movie on the club website, then the club does not have to worry about the rights.

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Michael Slowe
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Re: Club Films on Youtube

Post by Michael Slowe »

I can't see any disadvantage in posting films on YouTube (or Vimeo for that matter). Why be afraid of comments? Every time we show a film we are exposing ourselves to criticism (or, rarely, praise) and to try and avoid that is surely nonsense. My grouse regarding films on line is that they are not designed to be viewed on a small computer screen. A 42'' plasma is about the minimum requirement in my opinion.

On the copyright issue I have just received an E Mail from YouTube informing me that they received a complaint that one of my films used music that was owned by someone. The film was Potter's Lunch, made about ten years ago, using music that I had on a CD and which was (I thought) cleared under the IAC scheme to which I subscribe. I wasn't terribly worried, I merely removed the film from YouTube. I have about five other films still there with similar commercial music, nowadays I always use music from the fantastic Audio Network company to whom I pay a license fee for each production.
tom hardwick
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Re: Club Films on Youtube

Post by tom hardwick »

Every year YouTube pay a huge dollop of money to the Mechanical Performing Rights Group (or whoever they are) to cover the millions of 'unauthorised' up-loadings of commercial, copyright music. If you get a YouTube warning pop up regarding copyright you can be sure it's been computer generated. Generally it'll be accompanied by an advert saying click the link to buy this tune, and I'm pretty sure I've done my bit in selling a song when they see the little pop-movie I've made to sync with it.

So no need to remove your Film Michael. If everyone did that YouTube would be decimated (or whatever 10x decimation is).

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TimStannard
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Re: Club Films on Youtube

Post by TimStannard »

Michael Slowe wrote:Why be afraid of comments? Every time we show a film we are exposing ourselves to criticism (or, rarely, praise) and to try and avoid that is surely nonsense.
Opening yourself up to criticism on a forum such as this, or indeed many other film making forums, where constructive criticism is actively encouraged is a world apart from posting something where spotty oiks can, and do, post mindless abuse or can simply "dislike" a film without giveing any reason - thus you don't know whether it's someone who can justify their "dislike" or just someone trolling and disliking as many films as he can in an evening.

I'm thick skinned enough to take any sort of abuse on YouTube as I understand all this, but there are members of our club and I'm sure others who are of a more sensitive nature and might start to get upset that someone "dislikes" a film they made about something that is important to them or if someone posts a comment about what they would like to do to their daughter/granddaughter. It does happen!

I'm very much in favour of YouTube, but before a club posts any of it's members films on it, the members should at least be made aware of this, as well as the concern Peter raised in his original post about the films going "out of the club's control".

Incidentally I ran a club evening of films from the internet which have inspired or entertained me - some I think have even been mentioned here. If anyone is interested, I've linked to them all at our club website http://www.stainesvideo.co.uk/. On the home page, just scroll down to Chairman's Evening.
Tim
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Peter Copestake
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Re: Club Films on Youtube

Post by Peter Copestake »

Thanks for all comments which have been helpful.
Our Portas film does at least seem to support the bid rather more than some of the others that I've looked at.
The reason for the addition of 'amateur' like that was in case the judges thought a Sennheiser microphone, even if not held as intended, deemed the film to be not amateur - a requirement of the exercise.
Peter.
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FILM THURSO
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Re: Club Films on Youtube

Post by FILM THURSO »

Posting films on youtube is certainly a good way to go. There's a huge mixed bag of content good, bad and middling. Obviously there is so much material that it can take a bit of time for people to subscribe to your channel but people do see your work and even if it isn't getting too many views it is at least being seen further afield than your home town. Youtube is very useful for conecting to film makers all over the world. There's a lot of experience and plenty of new young film makers at work.
Some years back there was the question of whether amateur film making was dying out among clubs and it made me see how out of touch most clubs are. Amateur film making is more previlant today than it has been at any time in motion picture history and I'd dare say there are more amateur movies being made than professional (and sometimes much better for it).
I would suspect a bit of stuffy nose if a club is humming and hawing at going on youtube. Cinema For Thurso went on youtube on 18th December 2006 and while most of our film don't generate very high views in our time we have amassed 72,679 views to date! We could not have hoped to have that many people see our films if we stuck to showing locally.
In higher population areas clubs will benefit from finding film makers in their area that they never knew about. It is possible to message the film makers and ask if you can become involved in their productions providing cast or extra technical support (remember never to tell an independant producer how to make films- s/he's managed without you so far). By supporting them they may look to support you. We all like to talk to fellow film makers and share tips and ideas and even if the independants don't join your club you know each other exists and can still work together from time to time. We're always looking for films to work on whether our own or someone elses.
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FredD
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Re: Club Films on Youtube

Post by FredD »

Film Thursos' attitude is 100% correct in this matter !!
The only advice / opinion that I would add is if you are going to put your material on a 'social movie site', then DON'T use YouTube, but open a VIMEO account !!
VIMEO is by far the more 'mature' site when it comes to amateur/independant film makers 8)
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Fred D
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fraught
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Re: Club Films on Youtube

Post by fraught »

I say use both YouTube and Vimeo! :-) We make films for people to watch, right?

My YouTube channel has had over 1.4 million views, from people all over the globe. My most popular film is 'Overtime' with nearly 64,000 hits alone. The same film on Vimeo has had just over 7 thousand hits.

I've had great comments and feedback, plus some negative ones... but you take it all on the chin and choose to do with each one as you see fit.
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Chrisbitz
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Re: Club Films on Youtube

Post by Chrisbitz »

I totally agree with Fraught's opinion on film sharing. I make films for people to watch and enjoy, so for me, Vimeo and their small audience is a waste of effort. Miniscule "claimed" differences in quality are irrelevant. They will not make one iota of difference to the watchability of my films, or the enjoyment of my audience.

I've heard all the excuses under the sun for not putting films on the internet, but for me, I can either show it to 100 people at one of our bi-annual shows, or I can show it to 50,000+ viewers. The more people see it, the more it was worth all those hours of effort making it.

With regard to clubs putting members films on YouTube, OVFM have also considered this. A few years ago, we received a substantial grant to digitise and archive all our historic films, and any subsequent films that we thought were worth archiving too.

We therefore have the capability to put the entire back catalogue of OVFM films on YouTube, but we won't be doing that, simply because it would be a minefield of permissions from film-makers and copyright.
Instead, we've decided that if a member has a YouTube account, and their films are online, we will link to their YouTube copy from our Database, and if necessary, from our website too. That way we are happy to publicise any members' films, but they have the responsibilities, and the viewing numbers.

At the moment, only a few of our tech-savvy members do this so far, but it's not going to go away, and uptake will increase as the years go by.
I like to make films, this is- my Youtube account. What's yours?

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Re: Club Films on Youtube

Post by FILM THURSO »

It has to be said, independant youtubers are scoring points way ahead of the clubs and while they may work individually most of the time they do also make joint ventures and even have big and small gatherings all over the world. Perhaps youtube is the worlds biggest film making club without realising it and the entire world of working people can relate so well to "Overtime" (and it's sequel) :D
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TimStannard
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Re: Club Films on Youtube

Post by TimStannard »

Chrisbitz wrote: Instead, we've decided that if a member has a YouTube account, and their films are online, we will link to their YouTube copy from our Database, and if necessary, from our website too. That way we are happy to publicise any members' films, but they have the responsibilities, and the viewing numbers.
Precisely what we do at Staines as well. though we do have a "club" YouTube account fo those films we want to link to but for one reason or another (eg the maker not having a YouTube account) can't be liked to in another way.
Tim
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col lamb
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Re: Club Films on Youtube

Post by col lamb »

It should not be the case of restricting uploading movies to Youtube.........upload them to whatever web site will accept them.

It is also worth looking at just what the viewer watches, I am not sure of Youtube but on Vimeo you can get an analysis on the number of hits, the partial and full watches.

Yes; a movie may get 50,000 hits on Youtube, but just how many users watch more than the first few seconds. That is what the vast majority do, I certainly do. Out of 10 movies I start to watch on Vimeo I will probably only complete watching 1 or 2, the same on Youtube.

What I am proposing is that your movie needs to grab and intrigue the online audience within the first few seconds or it is history. When we watch movies at a club we are captive and only hit the skip button on the remote if the majority agree that the movie is dire, online you do not have that luxury......hit the online audience hard and fast.

Also create a Facebook account and link to the movies from there, you will find a lot of "friends" there and they in turn will pass on their actions automatically to others thus increasing the potential views.
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Re: Club Films on Youtube

Post by FILM THURSO »

Youtube does have viewer analysis which is very useful but if there's anyone out there who thinks their movies are the best ever (yet not) it might be worth avoiding it! :lol:
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