How do young people feel about our name?

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FILM THURSO
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Post by FILM THURSO »

No, no no, It's a perception by many that amateur film makers produce porn. Film-Thurso has never made porn and certain their is no way we're going down that road. At no time did I say that's what you'd find if you poped amateur film into an internet search. It is a response from people when the term is used. The smile appears on the face of limited understanding and then they make the suggestion.
I might have said it was just something peculiar to small town Thurso but it's a response I've gotten from people who have come into Caithness from other parts of the world.
I'm all for the rebranding but Federation is a bit strong, Institution has to go. British Movie Makers Association would be good. The whole look and feel of the organisation needs to be more mainstream but of course not drop any attantion to the more traditional film makers already within the organisation.
The tricky thing is to balance the branding so that we do not alienate existing members and member groups but also open up to be more inclusive of other film makers.
A common thing I found when active within a local arts organisation was with the mention of including young bands in our arts showcases. When I mentioned bands meaning teenagers playing whatever from pop to metal I was met with, "yes it would be rather good to get some young jazz musicians!" A head in hands moment as "jazz" means jazz not pop or metal or for that matter, anything a young band might want to play.
In the choice of name it has to convey the traditional interest of older members yet have the appeal of a major company and perhaps a more company like name and approach would be more supportive.
The IAC is a national organisation with member groups all over the country, could this not be utilised as distribution and exhibition network for amateur films so that films made by amateurs get the chance to tour the country to show to a real audiences. Film Thurso is certainly interested in running monthly film shows and we don't want to show only our own films, get's a little bit sad when you do that. (OOO look another one of OUR films! :shock:
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Dave Watterson
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Post by Dave Watterson »

Comments from Ned and CforT prompt me to remind everyone that the IAC does have a video library with a wide selection of movies that can be hired. You can find details on the main website - click the link on the left marked "Video Library".

- Dave
Chrisbitz
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Post by Chrisbitz »

Dave Watterson wrote: A few years ago there was a strong connection in many people's minds between "amateur film" and porn ...

Dave
I really think that's not the case anymore and more in teh realm of the limited stand-up commedian - maybe in the 70s that was true, but porn is actually very big budget and very professional nowadays.
There's some sex-related series on cable, about a porn filmmaker, and you should see the (filming!) equipment they have! (**That's hillarious! the forum has replaced s e x, with meaningful physical relationship, but left porn intact!)

I've seen pro steadicams, large jibs, boom mics. not remotely in the realm of some dodgy bloke with a beard and a VHS camera! :-)

Personally, I don't see anything wrong with the word amateur. When I think amateur, I just think they don't do it for profit.

Worrying about a word in the name is in the realms of the pink elephant in the living room. It's the WHOLE BRAND IMAGE that's at fault, not a word in the name.

There, I've even coloured it in to make it stand out. :-)
I like to make films, this is- my Youtube account. What's yours?

"all of the above is nothing more than nonsensical ramblings, and definately should NOT be misconstrued as anyone's official policy"
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FILM THURSO
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Post by FILM THURSO »

When folk see people filming in public they don't think anything of it. It's at the point of just mentioning amateur film that people respond with the suggestion of porn. The image is still very much alive and holding us back in places throughout the UK.
To start a film project we need to speak to folk and it's at that point that this ugly reputation surfaces. We get concerned faces and huge uncertainty from people we ask to get involved. It's our main reason for having five films not yet in production and they are upwards of 10 years on from original writing.
Film Thurso works hard to make it clear that amateur film makers are not porn producers. How bad is this problem in our area? It's really bad. We are stuck making documentries and topical films and even then folk who contribute content want nothing to do with being seen, heard or credited in the finished film and it makes no difference what equipment we are seen using in public. The porn reputation exists!
Mike Shaw

Post by Mike Shaw »

Must be local to you. I've been maing amateur films for the past 12 years - only family moves before that - and not once during that time have I ever been tarnished with the porn brush when informing people I make 'amateur movies'.

I find it very difficult to get to grips with this argument that changing the name will be a great panacea for curing the (supposed) woes of the IAC.

Do photographic club members suffer from people who think that, as 'amateur photographers' they shoot porn pictures? I don't think so. (Not round here, anyway).

If you want more members, make your meetings more interesting and informative - don't just have 'watching films' evenings, and make sure the meetiings are not clicky!

Involve visitors and new members, make them feel welcome and part of the group, and there's a good chance they'll come back for more. Make them feel like newcomers, not part of the 'group', and they won't.

None of which has anything whatsoever to do with the name of the IAC. Remember, most (but not all) IAC members come from clubs. So the place to start encouraging IAC membership is within the clubs.

There is, in fact, a scheme for doing just that ... why should video and film club members join the IAC - what are the benefits over and above belonging to a local club - two of the questions being answered with special visits and talks to clubs by IAC members. (Ask about the 'Ambassador' scheme).

If you want to go further and change the way IAC organises itself, then the best way is from within - get involved with the organisation and running of the IAC. then have your say (but don't expect everyone to share your views!)
ned c
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Post by ned c »

It's not just about changing the name, it's about changing the image and of which the name is a part.

If somone said "that is a very amateurish film looks as if it was made by a bunch of amateurs" one would be hard pressed to see that as a compliment or even a neutral statement.

The world of traditional amateur film making is now a very small and shrinking minority activity and is increasingly disconnected from the mainstreams of film making whether non-commercial or commercial.

We are at a sort of crossroads, we can retain the amateur structure and ethic which is sustained by an aging membership and there's nothing wrong with that provided that is acceptable, or we can restructure and attract a much wider involvement. There is a very real need for a body that represents and meets the needs of all non-commercial film makers, including those with professional aspirations.

So those contributors here who look for change then get involved with the managemnt of the IAC, I am trying to do my best with the rapidly shrinking "amateur" world here in the USA

ned c
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Dave Watterson
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Post by Dave Watterson »

(**That's hillarious! the forum has replaced s e x, with meaningful physical relationship, but left porn intact!)
Just to explain ... there was a time when we had a few messages posted promoting porn sites so we set the forum up to change certain words. We never found a porn posting with "meaningful physical relationship" in it! Oddly enough not many of them used the word "porn" in their messages.
The registration system makes it harder for spammers to join so we don't have much of a problem that way now. At one point a year or so back, Ian and I had to check every hour or so to delete dodgy messages.

Dave
Last edited by Dave Watterson on Thu Oct 09, 2008 6:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Graeme Webb

Post by Graeme Webb »

It's at the point of just mentioning amateur film that people respond with the suggestion of porn.
My only experience of this was when I was working for a swanky photographers studio in the west end of London in the late 60's on high society 16 mm wedding films. I was actually asked by a guy who I later found out to be a 'Gangster' if I would actually man the camera for a series of 'adult action films' I was only 19 at the time and thought it was seriously 'uncool'. Mind you the money would probably have come in useful :P
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FILM THURSO
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Post by FILM THURSO »

Our only experience (in the last week)... was last week!

I think there may be two trains of perception happening. It looks like a kind of split in the amateur film making world which is to say (and at 40 years old I'm stuck in the middle ground here) older film makers regard themselves as "amateur film makers" whilst younger or new producers regard themselves as "film makers".

What this points to is the nature of non-comercial film making at the time when the older members came into it. The origins of amateur film were in the realms of enthusiasts who enjoyed film to the extent of wishing to produce there own movies yet having no direct aspirations to become a "professional" in the main stream. The interest was for fun and enjoyment. At that time the nature of film in any respect was a matter of affordability and most folk couldn't afford it. It was the era of the film club.

It's only in the last 15 years that's it has truly reached a level where most people have either the required equipment or access to it so the older producer has come from a slightly different position.

It is the last 15 years that mark the separation of the perception. new or younger film makers don't use the word "amateur" they simply say that they are film makers. They approach the industry with the view that they do it because they enjoy film and like to make their own with no direct aspiration to becoming professional or work in the mainstream- sound familiar?

Obviously in both fields there are those who definately want to become Hollywood's next big producing sensation.

It's that word "amateur" which creates the perception problem and sadly it stems from that period of the 70s when I were just a wee lad when 'adult interest film' was being produced down sleazy little streets with a super 8 camera! That film-anywhere ability got people a little paranoid. What would come to your mind if you saw a man in the park wearing an overcoat, pulling out a little movie camera and filming people?

Film-Thurso has been asked twice to produce adult material and it was made clear how un-interested we are in that field. Perhaps we struggle more against the porn perception because Caithness is a small population of about 35,000 with the nearest city (if you can realistically call it as such- coz it ain't big) being Inverness 110 miles away.

Clubs are fading because of the shift in availability and access to movie making equipment. Every pc has Windows Movie Maker and you can make av presentations even if you don't have a movie camera. Webcams enable direct filming, mobile phones likewise. There's even a competition out there for films made with mobile phones and we certainly view them as an option for production techniques. Most folk can afford at least a basic video camera and failing that, they have access to one from maybe a friend or other family member. For any club like a business, it's survival depends on it's public image and sometimes a re-brand is essential to give a fresh image. Ask a kid for their view of clubs generally and see if you can identify how to move in a way to attract younger membership.

A word to the positive here is that "amateur" film making is alive and kicking and definately not fading into the past. The non-commercial industry is much more active than Hollywood and whether we call ourselves film makers or amateur film makers, whether we are in a club or happily independent, home movie production is the biggest it's ever been, see youtube if you don't believe me! :D
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DavidBeard
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Post by DavidBeard »

How old is 'Young'?
I'm 46 so I guess that makes me young here - but most music composing competitions have an age limit of 35 which makes feel very old!!!
Anyway - regards the name - I agree with most of the posts I've read already - drop the name 'Amateur' - How about replacing it with 'Academy'? 'International Academy of Cinematographers'
Best wishes.
David.
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FILM THURSO
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Post by FILM THURSO »

Crucial thing we have to note here after all the time this thread has been going is that no young person (under 35) has respond to it. We have only the views of I*C membership which in old money is the middle-aged to retired bracket!
How about simply National Film Association (hmm, pondering alternative translation of the initials) or International Film Association.

"film" makes it more embracing than 'Cinematographers' which is only one field of movie production. Movie makers at low/no budget end do every job.

"association" further inhances the togetherness and all embracing nature of the organisation. 'Institute' of 'fedaration' imply authority of high powers of control which make people feel a bit meek. "Association" puts us at the same user-friendly level :D
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stingman
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Post by stingman »

DavidBeard wrote:How old is 'Young'?
I'm 46 so I guess that makes me young here - but most music composing competitions have an age limit of 35 which makes feel very old!!!
Anyway - regards the name - I agree with most of the posts I've read already - drop the name 'Amateur' - How about replacing it with 'Academy'? 'International Academy of Cinematographers'
Best wishes.
David.
I`m 42 so i`m just a baby!
If we changed the name 'Amateur' and replaced it with 'Academy', I think people would think that we are a bit posh and not want to join. We need to tell them that we are `the man on the street`, and not posh.

Be good.....

Stingman
Ian Gardner
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Mike Shaw

Post by Mike Shaw »

But - hasn't the 'amateur' part of the name already been dropped? It's now called 'IAC, The Film & Video Institute', and the magazine is called 'Film & Video Maker'.

If you are referring to the fact that the 'A' in IAC' relates to Amateur - well, it may have done once, but now, its just 'IAC'', standing for nothing in particular as far as I am aware.

So isn't all this 'amateur' stuff a bit academic now?

As for the other thorn in people's side - 'Institute' being read as 'institution' - I son't wear that one. It doesn't worry the Institute of (Electrical/Mechanical) Engineers and so on. They have members of all ages.

I think I may have said before ... it isn't the name that brings in new members. It's what you do and how you do it.

Remember too, anyone can join the IAC - including individuals who don't belong to clubs.

As far as I can see, the only place where 'Amateur' could be ascribed is BIAFF - and I wonder how many people know what the full acronym stands for?
Last edited by Mike Shaw on Fri Oct 24, 2008 6:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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FILM THURSO
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Post by FILM THURSO »

The Institute of Engineers is a professional body and it's name adds merit to it's standing as a recognised body of professionals. The IAC whilst run by qualified persons as a charitable company, is not here to represent any professional. For the former it would certainly not have it's membership affected by it's name. It would be quite the reverse as any qualified tradesman would wish to add weight to their training and skills by being able to display membership of such a body. The Engineers Club would have have a quite a detremental affect not so much attracting qualified tradesmen, more likely to attract men of some persuasion possibly in a drinking direction!
The name of an organisation must be representative for the function it serves and the group of people for whom it is the banner. "Amateur" as a word is old hat. Ask any film maker if they what their hobby is and they will say 'film making' not 'amateur film making'. The modern generation of film makers don't make any verbal destinction as to professional or amateur status. The word "amateur" is dying out so let's put it in it's box and bury it. :shock:
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stingman
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Post by stingman »

Good words Film Thurso.

When asked what I do, I sometimes don`t even mention my 9 to 5 job title! I say i`m a Film Maker. Much more fun then fixing Pushbikes! I think you will ALL agree 8)

Be good...

Stingman
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