Age

[Fraught]

Just out of curiosity... how old are you? I've been reading through this
forum and it only tends to be a handful of 10 or so people that regularly
post, so was wondering what the general age of this forum is?

I'll start... i'm 33.

[Ned C]

I am curious why you have asked the question. Age is just numbers and there
are mature 18 year olds and immature 45 year olds. Ideally, but not necessarily
age should add experience. There are a small number of posters here, I suspect
more viewers. I am trying to make the connection between age and posting,
if there is one

Ned C


"Fraught" <forums@theiac.org.uk> wrote:

Just out of curiosity... how old are you? I've been reading through this
forum and it only tends to be a handful of 10 or so people that regularly
post, so was wondering what the general age of this forum is?

I'll start... i'm 33.

[ian gardner]

"Fraught" <forums@theiac.org.uk> wrote:

Just out of curiosity... how old are you? I've been reading through this
forum and it only tends to be a handful of 10 or so people that regularly
post, so was wondering what the general age of this forum is?

I'll start... i'm 33.
I`m 40 on the 26th of this month! I feel like i`m 18 so I must be imature.

I was a mature teenager so somewhere between 18 and 39 I stopped getting
older. I`ve got 20 years of videoing under my belt and joined a local video
camera club 2 years ago. Because of my modern outlook and trying different
styles of filming and editing, I won my clubs video maker of the year award
in my first two years! I`m going for the triple.

Ian (speilburg) Gardner

[Peter Copestake]

"Fraught" <forums@theiac.org.uk> wrote:

Just out of curiosity... how old are you? I've been reading through this
forum and it only tends to be a handful of 10 or so people that regularly
post, so was wondering what the general age of this forum is?

I'll start... i'm 33.
74, why? Peter C

[Fraught]

Not sure i totally agree Ned that "Age is just numbers and there are mature
18 year olds and immature 45 year olds". Because at the end of the day, someone
who is 33 cannot enter a Youth Competition no matter how 'immature' they
may be. The 'with age comes experience ' side of things is not really
true either, especially if you are referring to experience in video & film...
someone could have only taken this wonderful hobby up this very morning.
I've seen instances of a 16 year old amateur film maker, who has more experience
with making videos than a 55 year old.

I read the forums on a reasonably regular basis, sometimes contributing,
and i get the impression that the majority of posters are older than me,
or are not as 'immature' as me, with the odd exception. (not trying to insult
anyone btw!) I'm just curious whether i'm right or not. Do we have a decent
youth following? Or as the articles and images in AFVM suggest, the youth
are just staying away...

What has prompted me to write this... was i posted a string on this forum
regarding using YouTube as a method of getting out to the youth or indeed
reaching film makers of the world. Yet no one has decided to respond... why
is that? I'd love to know, as i think its the perfect tool to reaching a
much wider audience and maybe even a much wider membership. YouTube is the
fastest growing website in the World, and its all about people posting their
home made movies up online... what could be better!?

ps... Love the Profile thing Ian... i think we should all do it!

"ian gardner" <ian@gardner44.freeserve.co.uk> wrote:

"Fraught" <forums@theiac.org.uk> wrote:

Just out of curiosity... how old are you? I've been reading through this
forum and it only tends to be a handful of 10 or so people that regularly
post, so was wondering what the general age of this forum is?

I'll start... i'm 33.
I`m 40 on the 26th of this month! I feel like i`m 18 so I must be imature.
I was a mature teenager so somewhere between 18 and 39 I stopped getting
older. I`ve got 20 years of videoing under my belt and joined a local video
camera club 2 years ago. Because of my modern outlook and trying different
styles of filming and editing, I won my clubs video maker of the year award
in my first two years! I`m going for the triple.

Ian (speilburg) Gardner

[Ian Gardner]

"Fraught" <nothing@nothing.com> wrote:

Not sure i totally agree Ned that "Age is just numbers and there are mature
18 year olds and immature 45 year olds". Because at the end of the day,
someone
who is 33 cannot enter a Youth Competition no matter how 'immature' they
may be. The 'with age comes experience ' side of things is not really
true either, especially if you are referring to experience in video & film...
someone could have only taken this wonderful hobby up this very morning.
I've seen instances of a 16 year old amateur film maker, who has more experience
with making videos than a 55 year old.

ps... Love the Profile thing Ian... i think we should all do it!

Thanks. You mentioning the youtube thing is similar to alot of things. It`s
getting people motivated. Summer isn`t a good time as people are on holidays
etc. It`s like getting volunteers to make the tea at the club meets!
Also, people are very cageie to give their details out! I know anybody can
see and post to this forum, but I don`t mind giving certain details out.
Some people like to hide behind a vertual wall as is the internet. On the
internet, people can become who and what they want. I could pretend to be
a BBC producer (I wish!) on here and people would believe me! But unfortunatly
I work for my brother as a cycle mechanic. Cheap wages and not much fun living
in a council house with my family! But with doing film making, You can do,
and become what you want. I love making films and I love people to watch
them and laugth at me on them. It gives one a buzz. Judges (no disrespect)
are a different matter! I even post with my real name!

Ian (Mr ordinary Guy) Gardner.

[Fraught]

You maybe right Ian. Motivation maybe the key... so how can i do it? I want
the IAC to take the 21st Century by the horns and catapult itself out there...
rather than die out like a dinosaur.

I'm a little cagey about giving out my email address, especially as i have
been a victim of spam, and this forum is the only place that my email address
has been available, hence why i use nothing@nothing.com... i feel sorry for
whoever may use that email address!! LOL...

Thanks. You mentioning the youtube thing is similar to alot of things. It`s
getting people motivated. Summer isn`t a good time as people are on holidays
etc. It`s like getting volunteers to make the tea at the club meets!
Also, people are very cageie to give their details out! I know anybody
can
see and post to this forum, but I don`t mind giving certain details out.
Some people like to hide behind a vertual wall as is the internet. On the
internet, people can become who and what they want. I could pretend to be
a BBC producer (I wish!) on here and people would believe me! But unfortunatly
I work for my brother as a cycle mechanic. Cheap wages and not much fun
living
in a council house with my family! But with doing film making, You can do,
and become what you want. I love making films and I love people to watch
them and laugth at me on them. It gives one a buzz. Judges (no disrespect)
are a different matter! I even post with my real name!

Ian (Mr ordinary Guy) Gardner.

[Ned C]

"Fraught" <nothing@nothing.com> wrote:

You maybe right Ian. Motivation maybe the key... so how can i do it? I want
the IAC to take the 21st Century by the horns and catapult itself out there...
rather than die out like a dinosaur.

I'm a little cagey about giving out my email address, especially as i have
been a victim of spam, and this forum is the only place that my email address
has been available, hence why i use nothing@nothing.com... i feel sorry
for
whoever may use that email address!! LOL...

Now we are getting somewhere. I posted recently on how do we attract a new
generation of film makers and that discussion died out pretty quickly. So
where are all the media graduates and wannabe film makers who have failed
at the professional level? Suggest that you look at shootingpeople.org Here
in my opinion are some of the problems:

1. The word amateur is death in a film making context. If you want to rubbish
someone's film call it "amateurish".
2. Yes, age is an issue in clubs and societies, who wants to go to a meeting
with people their grandparents age (or their grandchilddrens age even?) There
is a generation gap and it is difficult to bridge.
3. With some notable exceptions judging needs to be brought into the 21st
Century.
4. I agree that the Internet is the future of distribution but we are not
quite there yet in terms of full resolution and speedy downloads so need
other distribution routes.
5. The IAC website is very good and has access to some videos and a video
section accessible to members to post and visit would add to the value of
membership.


Now you young guys, offer some solutions!!

Ned C

[ian gardner]

"Fraught" <nothing@nothing.com> wrote:

You maybe right Ian. Motivation maybe the key... so how can i do it? I want
the IAC to take the 21st Century by the horns and catapult itself out there...
rather than die out like a dinosaur.

It takes alot of time and energy to motivate people. Even people replying
to the club BBQ. Some didn`t bother, but still came anyway! It`s ALWAYS the
same caring people who are in the front line and stand up and help if you
ask for help.
So the answer is alot of hard work indeed. One thing about putting your
films online is that you would have to convert them and squach them so the
files are smaller. At 4 gig for a twenty minute film is great. Most people
would not know how to compress there films or cannot be bothered to do it!

Ian Gardner

[ian gardner]

"Ned C" <ned@ampsvido.com> wrote:

Now we are getting somewhere. I posted recently on how do we attract a new
generation of film makers and that discussion died out pretty quickly. So
where are all the media graduates and wannabe film makers who have failed
at the professional level? Suggest that you look at shootingpeople.org Here
in my opinion are some of the problems:

1. The word amateur is death in a film making context. If you want to rubbish
someone's film call it "amateurish".

2. Yes, age is an issue in clubs and societies, who wants to go to a meeting
with people their grandparents age (or their grandchilddrens age even?)
There
is a generation gap and it is difficult to bridge.

3. With some notable exceptions judging needs to be brought into the 21st
Century.

That is a hard one because (again, it could be age) you could film a sequence
perfectly without a tripod, jerking all over the place (intended) and the
judges may not get the point and award 1 point for stedy camerawork. What
i`m getting at is that judgeing is one mans opinion. I`ve lern`t this year
to ignore judges comments unless there good!

4. I agree that the Internet is the future of distribution but we are not
quite there yet in terms of full resolution and speedy downloads so need
other distribution routes.

5. The IAC website is very good and has access to some videos and a video
section accessible to members to post and visit would add to the value of
membership.

I like the IAC`s website. It`s one of the best one`s.

Ned C

Some good points there Ned.
At 39, I am the youngest in my club. I used to be club secretary, it lasted
for 9 months! Thats another story......
I felt (and still do) believe that it`s my job to encourage younger people
to use more modern ways of filming and editing. It took alot of work, but
we started to get alot of middle aged people into the club. Now i`m not secretary,
(who thev`e replaced with a 59 ish year old) I feel that the club will die.
If you don`t get younger people in the the older one`s get ill and die! I`m
sorry to say this but it`s true. I`ll be one of the older one`s in 40 years
time!! I`m so incenced with the situation that I may only go to the club
on a competition night to collect my judges comments and to hear my name
after the words `First place goes to......`!! When you`ve been hit hard between
the legs, it`s hard to get up again and help. So at the moment, i`m a bit
of a limpet and a clingeroner.

Ian Gardner

[Willy Van der Linden]

"Fraught" <forums@theiac.org.uk> wrote:

I agree with Ned. He started that discussion some weeks ago and "fraught"

(who's fraught ?) re-opened it. I even think that the older generation(s)
replied to Ned's questions. We're all worried about the generation gap. I
think that we're all responsible for it. In the course of all those years
after WW2 we spoilt our children and grandchildren too much. Now they don't
have the energy anymore to do enormous efforts like organizing everything.
Have they become too lazy ? Are they too careless ? Perhaps everything has
become too heavy for them. What do you think ? Perhaps these questions are
a bit delicate. I expect being attacked by the younger friends on this forum,
but I just ask some questions. As a former teacher I've seen a change in
the mentality of our youngsters. Years ago our parents were very angry with
us when we had done something wrong at school. Nowadays the parents are very
angry with the teachers when their children have been punished at school.
That's a pity. Years ago we did our utmost to write compositions without
any spelling-mistakes. Nowadays everybody uses a chatting-language. We don't
even end our sentences anymore. We neglect everything. I'm the editor of
our club magazine. Nobody wants to replace me because nobody has the energy
such a thing anymore. About 50 years ago there were stages in The Tour the
France of 250 miles or longer. Now the racers want shorter stages because
otherwise they have to take drugs. Doping is necessary to do enormous efforts
they pretend. It's also a bit like that in film making. Carrying a heavy
tripod is not good. It may cause back-aches. The easier the better. That's
the slogan of today. Oh, now I'm so negative. Perhaps I'm an old trestle.
No, I'm not. I'm just a bit provocative. I repeat Ned's questions. What
can we do ? I don't want us to be like dying dinosaurs.

[Fraught]

Ian,

what you said has basically summed up how i have felt about the IAC and Video
Clubs in general. I remember when the club i belonged to got a 60'ish year
old guy to run the show (ex-BBC), the first thing he asked us to do was make
a short documentary on how to make a cup of tea! Now i know people need to
learn the basics... but isn't our hobby all about having fun too!?

Here are my ideas on getting youngsters into the IAC;

1) Use YouTube.com as a recruitment area... put up a couple of good films,
see what people think and lure them to the IAC website.

2) Create some Awards at BIAFF for specific Genre's like 'Best Comedy Film'
or 'Best Horror Film'. Thats the sort of thing youngsters are making...

3) The website could do with a little revamp... more pictures, and maybe
a slightly different layout.

4) Lets start going to all the Film Making Websites like MySpace amongst
others and start spreading the good word!

If i think of any more... i'll let you know

At 39, I am the youngest in my club. I used to be club secretary, it lasted
for 9 months! Thats another story......
I felt (and still do) believe that it`s my job to encourage younger people
to use more modern ways of filming and editing. It took alot of work, but
we started to get alot of middle aged people into the club. Now i`m not
secretary,
(who thev`e replaced with a 59 ish year old) I feel that the club will die.
If you don`t get younger people in the the older one`s get ill and die!
I`m
sorry to say this but it`s true. I`ll be one of the older one`s in 40 years
time!! I`m so incenced with the situation that I may only go to the club
on a competition night to collect my judges comments and to hear my name
after the words `First place goes to......`!! When you`ve been hit hard
between
the legs, it`s hard to get up again and help. So at the moment, i`m a bit
of a limpet and a clingeroner.

Ian Gardner

[Fraught]

Hi Willy,

You've kinda got a point here... but i'm only 33, and yet my most prolific
time for making films was in the the 80's and early 90's before i was 21.
My films were always criticised for being too long (i was always aiming for
that epic feel)... i tended to have large casts, often complicated stories,
and plenty of time consuming FX. All of which took lots of planning and organisation.
Of course i'm only referring to myself, so cant speak for any others with
regards to youngsters being lazy... but i certainly wasn't. I seem to have
gotten more lazy as i've gotten older!

I've come up with some ideas in another answer to the AGE thread... but i
have had another thought... now when i was a kid, the things that really
excited me and made me want to makes films were tv programmes like Take Over
TV & Screen Test. What is needed is for something like that to come back...
amateur films being shown on prime-time tv!

Ps: Willy... if you want to know more about me, go to http://www.fraught.net




"Willy Van der Linden" <vanderlindenhig@telenet.be> wrote:

"Fraught" <forums@theiac.org.uk> wrote:

I agree with Ned. He started that discussion some weeks ago and "fraught"
(who's fraught ?) re-opened it. I even think that the older generation(s)
replied to Ned's questions. We're all worried about the generation gap.
I
think that we're all responsible for it. In the course of all those years
after WW2 we spoilt our children and grandchildren too much. Now they don't
have the energy anymore to do enormous efforts like organizing everything.
Have they become too lazy ? Are they too careless ? Perhaps everything has
become too heavy for them. What do you think ? Perhaps these questions are
a bit delicate. I expect being attacked by the younger friends on this forum,
but I just ask some questions. As a former teacher I've seen a change in
the mentality of our youngsters. Years ago our parents were very angry
with
us when we had done something wrong at school. Nowadays the parents are
very
angry with the teachers when their children have been punished at school.
That's a pity. Years ago we did our utmost to write compositions without
any spelling-mistakes. Nowadays everybody uses a chatting-language. We don't
even end our sentences anymore. We neglect everything. I'm the editor of
our club magazine. Nobody wants to replace me because nobody has the energy
such a thing anymore. About 50 years ago there were stages in The Tour the
France of 250 miles or longer. Now the racers want shorter stages because
otherwise they have to take drugs. Doping is necessary to do enormous efforts
they pretend. It's also a bit like that in film making. Carrying a heavy
tripod is not good. It may cause back-aches. The easier the better. That's
the slogan of today. Oh, now I'm so negative. Perhaps I'm an old trestle.
No, I'm not. I'm just a bit provocative. I repeat Ned's questions. What
can we do ? I don't want us to be like dying dinosaurs.

[Michael Slowe]

The age question is very misleading because we are all so different. I am
71 but can't really believe it. I train in the gym with a personal trainer
twice a week where they take it very seriously and if you aren't prepared
to practically die each session they don't want to train you and I've done
this for 14 years!

I am prepared to carry heavy tripods and cameras and take whatever trouble
it takes to make a decent film. Willy is right, it doesn't come easy with
film making if you want to succeed.

Young people are making films (videos mostly but film on the continent)and
we do get the best ones at BIAFF. It's nothing to do with the judges, they
(and anyone else with half an ear and eye) know whether a film is good or
not. I do not like the idea of putting films on the web. Even if we can
compress them to fit I think you need a decent size screen to convey the
impact I intended when making the film. A small computer screen tucked away
in a cutting room is not the right forum in my opinion.

As to general exposure things have got worse. 30 years ago with the old Ten
Best competition I had many films shown at the National Film Theatre and
on ITV's 'Clapperboard' programme (together with interviews!). Channel 4
are doing their bit with More 4 and their documentary competitions so there
is a forum out there but I can't access it as they really only want 4 minute
films (4 is the key!)!

[Cinema For Thurso Group]

1) Use YouTube.com as a recruitment area... put up a couple of good films,
see what people think and lure them to the IAC website.

2) Create some Awards at BIAFF for specific Genre's like 'Best Comedy Film'
or 'Best Horror Film'. Thats the sort of thing youngsters are making...


3) The website could do with a little revamp... more pictures, and maybe
a slightly different layout.

4) Lets start going to all the Film Making Websites like MySpace amongst
others and start spreading the good word!

If i think of any more... i'll let you know

HEY IS ANYBODY LISTENING TO THIS MAN CAUSE HE'S RIGHT!

Promotion has to appear in the right places. Having a website isn't enough.
When we launched thursopicturehouse we covered our town with daybills and
some are still up. Dropping updates notes into forums like this is another
way we get attention for our site along with any excuse to get it in the
local paper. If you want to get the youth membership you need someone who
is on their wavelength. Such a person can connect by having a knowledge of
where the most popular places young people are at, knowing what they are
interested in, etc. To some extent it is more a comercial than artist approach
but that's where it starts. A kid buys a cd of a popular band, the more music
they hear the more they want to explore the artform. Movies are the same.

I spent some amount of time trying to get through (banging my head off a
brick wall) to older members of an arts organisation that the main focus
of youth interest in the arts is mainstream movies and music. If the older
members show an interest the youngsters open up and discussion begins. New
ideas are shared with experience to create a vibrant mix of creative posability.

www.aimfortheface.piczo.com Have a look at the silly stuff our juniors (16
to 20) get up to. They are currently working on a comedy called "American
Dog" on which I've assisted the writing and direction. Their pyrotechnics
tests were hilarious and the project is looking good so far. Even though
we have very few members we have an even spread of young and older (coz no-one
is over 55 yet). "American Dog" is a project created by our young members
and they are delighted by the encouragement they get to make their movie
as they see fit whilst benefitting from assitance and advice that does not
intrude on their vision of the project. Hell the cameraman has even taken
up super 8mm as a filming tool after being shown material from our archives
and "The Bilbster Adventure", and he loves it.
We have only to listen to their ideas and help them find ways of making
their movies happen.