Well here's a pickle but I'm sure one of you can answer it.
Cinema For Thurso is about to optically reprint some rare Dufycolor 9.5mm
stock to super 8 which is going to be included with other 35mm footage. We
have a specific not to exceed 2x 50ft carts of Super 8. We have about 75
to 100ft of 9.5 to reprint which has been shot at 16-18fps. We have already
used about 42ft and the 35mm material will possibly occupy most or all of
the next cartridge. How much running time does 9.5 take?
9.5mm Running Times?
-
Cinema For Thurso Group
Re: 9.5mm Running Times?
"Cinema For Thurso Group" <forums@theiac.org.uk> wrote:
P.S. NEED THE ANSWER TONIGHT- got a deadline to meet!Well here's a pickle but I'm sure one of you can answer it.
Cinema For Thurso is about to optically reprint some rare Dufycolor 9.5mm
stock to super 8 which is going to be included with other 35mm footage.
We
have a specific not to exceed 2x 50ft carts of Super 8. We have about 75
to 100ft of 9.5 to reprint which has been shot at 16-18fps. We have already
used about 42ft and the 35mm material will possibly occupy most or all of
the next cartridge. How much running time does 9.5 take?
-
Dave Watterson
Re: 9.5mm Running Times?
Am I missing something?
If you count how many frames there are in a foot
of 9.5mm (I make it 40) and multiply by the number
of feet you get the total number of frames.
You know it was shot around 16-18 fps so divide
by 17 to get a fair idea of the running time.
BUT beware - 9.5mm often used titles and
inter-titles which were notched. (i.e. the film
was physically cut one one edge. This caused the
projector to pause with the title in the gate
until the operator moved the film on again.
If you have any of those you need to shoot those
frames several times.
Good luck!
Dave W
PS How about that? I managed to lay my hands on
a cartridge of 9.5mm and a ruler in a matter of
seconds!
If you count how many frames there are in a foot
of 9.5mm (I make it 40) and multiply by the number
of feet you get the total number of frames.
You know it was shot around 16-18 fps so divide
by 17 to get a fair idea of the running time.
BUT beware - 9.5mm often used titles and
inter-titles which were notched. (i.e. the film
was physically cut one one edge. This caused the
projector to pause with the title in the gate
until the operator moved the film on again.
If you have any of those you need to shoot those
frames several times.
Good luck!
Dave W
PS How about that? I managed to lay my hands on
a cartridge of 9.5mm and a ruler in a matter of
seconds!
-
Cinema For Thurso Group
Re: 9.5mm Running Times?
Thanks Dave, most helpful. I have an abundance of old 9.5 about half of which
is home-movie stuff and the other is package movies. I have some of the little
cartridge movies with the notches but in this instance it's the home-movie
stuff that's getting our attention.
Dufycolor, for those who may not know is an early color film which has a
monochrome emulsion as normal but the plastic base of the film is criss-crossed
with red and green primary lenticular lines. It works in the same way as
color images photographed through separation filters except the image is
parmanently registered in color.
However the film has a tendancy to peel with age due to the surface upon
which it lies. If you peel off the emulsion you will see it in black and
white. The color quality is remarkably good although naturally blues are
not to strong but certainly appear better than some other systems of the
day.CFT has about 100ft of Dufycolor and it is starting to peel so reprinting
is now absolutly essential to preserve these valuable images. Of the seven
reels of footage including some WW2 stuff of exceptional rare and possibly
unauthorised shots of Nazi Germany, the bulk is in good condition and there
is no rush to reprint anything other than the Dufycolor.
Again, thanks Dave
is home-movie stuff and the other is package movies. I have some of the little
cartridge movies with the notches but in this instance it's the home-movie
stuff that's getting our attention.
Dufycolor, for those who may not know is an early color film which has a
monochrome emulsion as normal but the plastic base of the film is criss-crossed
with red and green primary lenticular lines. It works in the same way as
color images photographed through separation filters except the image is
parmanently registered in color.
However the film has a tendancy to peel with age due to the surface upon
which it lies. If you peel off the emulsion you will see it in black and
white. The color quality is remarkably good although naturally blues are
not to strong but certainly appear better than some other systems of the
day.CFT has about 100ft of Dufycolor and it is starting to peel so reprinting
is now absolutly essential to preserve these valuable images. Of the seven
reels of footage including some WW2 stuff of exceptional rare and possibly
unauthorised shots of Nazi Germany, the bulk is in good condition and there
is no rush to reprint anything other than the Dufycolor.
Again, thanks Dave
-
Michael Slowe
Re: 9.5mm Running Times?
"Cinema For Thurso Group" <canuimagine@btopenworld.com> wrote:
I must say how nostalgic I am to read of your latest endeavours. All us
older film makers of course started by holding up to the light handfulls
of film and later editing on small viewers and it was truly "the real thing".
We probably made films that were more concise due to the difficulties and
costs involved compared to today. There is to be sure something about the
film image but annual improvements in the modern production process is narrowing
the gap - fast. Restoring and rescueing old film images is however vital
and it sounds like you are doing a great job.
Hope to see you in Harrogate!
Michael Slowe.
Lest you think, Mr. Thurso, that people now working with video are all philistines,Thanks Dave, most helpful. I have an abundance of old 9.5 about half of
which
is home-movie stuff and the other is package movies. I have some of the
little
cartridge movies with the notches but in this instance it's the home-movie
stuff that's getting our attention.
Dufycolor, for those who may not know is an early color film which has
a
monochrome emulsion as normal but the plastic base of the film is criss-crossed
with red and green primary lenticular lines. It works in the same way as
color images photographed through separation filters except the image is
parmanently registered in color.
However the film has a tendancy to peel with age due to the surface upon
which it lies. If you peel off the emulsion you will see it in black and
white. The color quality is remarkably good although naturally blues are
not to strong but certainly appear better than some other systems of the
day.CFT has about 100ft of Dufycolor and it is starting to peel so reprinting
is now absolutly essential to preserve these valuable images. Of the seven
reels of footage including some WW2 stuff of exceptional rare and possibly
unauthorised shots of Nazi Germany, the bulk is in good condition and there
is no rush to reprint anything other than the Dufycolor.
Again, thanks Dave
I must say how nostalgic I am to read of your latest endeavours. All us
older film makers of course started by holding up to the light handfulls
of film and later editing on small viewers and it was truly "the real thing".
We probably made films that were more concise due to the difficulties and
costs involved compared to today. There is to be sure something about the
film image but annual improvements in the modern production process is narrowing
the gap - fast. Restoring and rescueing old film images is however vital
and it sounds like you are doing a great job.
Hope to see you in Harrogate!
Michael Slowe.
-
Ned C
Re: 9.5mm Running Times?
"Michael Slowe" <michael.slowe@btinternet.com> wrote:
did many of the trials with Dufaycolor. All film restoration is important
so add my thanks,
Ned C
The nostalgia hits even harder here as an old cameraman chum (Geoff Mulligan)Lest you think, Mr. Thurso, that people now working with video are all philistines,
I must say how nostalgic I am to read of your latest endeavours. All us
older film makers of course started by holding up to the light handfulls
of film and later editing on small viewers and it was truly "the real thing".
We probably made films that were more concise due to the difficulties and
costs involved compared to today. There is to be sure something about the
film image but annual improvements in the modern production process is narrowing
the gap - fast. Restoring and rescueing old film images is however vital
and it sounds like you are doing a great job.
Hope to see you in Harrogate!
Michael Slowe.
did many of the trials with Dufaycolor. All film restoration is important
so add my thanks,
Ned C
-
Cinema For Thurso Group
Re: 9.5mm Running Times?
Well guys I've done the initial reprint run and it should be interesting.
Most of the footage awaits this essential work and the bit that was done
will be done again as it was not only a rush job but really a test. Whatever
the outcome the reprint will be shown at the Caithness Arts Showcase event
on Fri 30th April at Skinandis Nightclub, Thurso (our old Picture House)
along with a trailer for "The Bilbster Adventure", our little baby with all
the optical composites and animation on live action effects made possible
by 65mm PIP. And if that wasn't enough a selected scene from "The Adventures
Of Maya" (1922-silent Niterate) has also been reprinted for the occasion
(including PIP formated titles).
Reprinting the 9.5 was a fun experience. As with all experimentation there's
always something right in the middle. The film was being illuminated by a
12v 20w lamp thru a power convertor. I had noticed a smell but hadn't quite
taken concious notice until the converter went "POP" and the lamp went out.
So a quip trip to the techy cupboard and out came another converter which
turned out to be even better giving a brighter light. I think the picture
is going to jump a bit in brightness and quality but anyways it's going to
be nice to see the old footage on new film.
As well as making films Cinema For Thurso is very keen to explore possabilities
with old material. PIP format has opened up matting and with this we are
planning a film that will put actors into old images to bring old scenes
to new life. Flip-side, we are interested in pulling live-action elements
from old footage to add them into new. To do all this we need to reprint
old films which is important in terms of preservation and handy for us when
we find a way to use the various shots that have been saved. PIP can be used
to create composites, animation effects, titles or subtitles, title animation
sequences individually or onto live-action which is all then returned to
Super 8mm.
The past is our lesson for the future and so we turn to old to learn new
things.
Don't you just love movies?
Most of the footage awaits this essential work and the bit that was done
will be done again as it was not only a rush job but really a test. Whatever
the outcome the reprint will be shown at the Caithness Arts Showcase event
on Fri 30th April at Skinandis Nightclub, Thurso (our old Picture House)
along with a trailer for "The Bilbster Adventure", our little baby with all
the optical composites and animation on live action effects made possible
by 65mm PIP. And if that wasn't enough a selected scene from "The Adventures
Of Maya" (1922-silent Niterate) has also been reprinted for the occasion
(including PIP formated titles).
Reprinting the 9.5 was a fun experience. As with all experimentation there's
always something right in the middle. The film was being illuminated by a
12v 20w lamp thru a power convertor. I had noticed a smell but hadn't quite
taken concious notice until the converter went "POP" and the lamp went out.
So a quip trip to the techy cupboard and out came another converter which
turned out to be even better giving a brighter light. I think the picture
is going to jump a bit in brightness and quality but anyways it's going to
be nice to see the old footage on new film.
As well as making films Cinema For Thurso is very keen to explore possabilities
with old material. PIP format has opened up matting and with this we are
planning a film that will put actors into old images to bring old scenes
to new life. Flip-side, we are interested in pulling live-action elements
from old footage to add them into new. To do all this we need to reprint
old films which is important in terms of preservation and handy for us when
we find a way to use the various shots that have been saved. PIP can be used
to create composites, animation effects, titles or subtitles, title animation
sequences individually or onto live-action which is all then returned to
Super 8mm.
The past is our lesson for the future and so we turn to old to learn new
things.
Don't you just love movies?
-
Ned C
Re: 9.5mm Running Times?
"Cinema For Thurso Group" <canuimagine@btopenworld.com> wrote:
films with an archive?
Ned C
Having gone to a great deal of trouble do you deposit copies your restoredWell guys I've done the initial reprint run and it should be interesting.
Most of the footage awaits this essential work and the bit that was done
will be done again as it was not only a rush job but really a test. Whatever
the outcome the reprint will be shown at the Caithness Arts Showcase event
on Fri 30th April at Skinandis Nightclub, Thurso (our old Picture House)
along with a trailer for "The Bilbster Adventure", our little baby with
all
the optical composites and animation on live action effects made possible
by 65mm PIP. And if that wasn't enough a selected scene from "The Adventures
Of Maya" (1922-silent Niterate) has also been reprinted for the occasion
(including PIP formated titles).
Reprinting the 9.5 was a fun experience. As with all experimentation there's
always something right in the middle. The film was being illuminated by
a
12v 20w lamp thru a power convertor. I had noticed a smell but hadn't quite
taken concious notice until the converter went "POP" and the lamp went out.
So a quip trip to the techy cupboard and out came another converter which
turned out to be even better giving a brighter light. I think the picture
is going to jump a bit in brightness and quality but anyways it's going
to
be nice to see the old footage on new film.
As well as making films Cinema For Thurso is very keen to explore possabilities
with old material. PIP format has opened up matting and with this we are
planning a film that will put actors into old images to bring old scenes
to new life. Flip-side, we are interested in pulling live-action elements
from old footage to add them into new. To do all this we need to reprint
old films which is important in terms of preservation and handy for us when
we find a way to use the various shots that have been saved. PIP can be
used
to create composites, animation effects, titles or subtitles, title animation
sequences individually or onto live-action which is all then returned to
Super 8mm.
The past is our lesson for the future and so we turn to old to learn new
things.
Don't you just love movies?
films with an archive?
Ned C
-
Cinema For Thurso Group
Re: 9.5mm Running Times?
There's nothing in Archives yet, neither the Scottish or National Film Archives
were interested in retaining the last know 35mm copy of The Adventures Of
Maya which is why it has come down to CFT to do all the rescue work. I can
understand their point about saving things of a significant cultural or historical
nature due to costs but as the 20th century was thusfar the most recorded
century of modern times I've always felt any film should be worthy of preservation.
"Maya" was originally around 72 minutes but only 40 remain on 35mm. Out
there somewhere, should be a full length version on 16mm and possibly sections
on 9.5mm. Nothing has turned up so far.
There is a long term plan with us to deposit copies of all our footage with
the IAC's library and "The Adventures Of Maya" might be included but we have
to do a second reprint after Kodak made a fine mess of the first reprint
with those famous blue marks that have trashed many other peoples' films
as well.
The 9.5 material is only retained by CFT and as yet we do not have full
ownership of the footage although we are able to use it fairly freely with
consideration to persons on the film who are still alive.
Of course as we are at the low to non-existant end in financial terms, the
process of transferring film to film will be mostly when the mood and spare
cash take us.
Whether our films go to archive or not I hope you will all take note that
CFT is willing to show footage when practically possible and through the
coming years the public will get the oportunity to see the old films. Cinema
For Thurso celebrates 20 years this November and there are plans for a lot
of our material to be shown that month. So if you want to see our stuff you'll
have to head for Thurso.
If you don't know how to get here ask an old soldier and he will guide you
to London Euston to board the Jelico Express.
were interested in retaining the last know 35mm copy of The Adventures Of
Maya which is why it has come down to CFT to do all the rescue work. I can
understand their point about saving things of a significant cultural or historical
nature due to costs but as the 20th century was thusfar the most recorded
century of modern times I've always felt any film should be worthy of preservation.
"Maya" was originally around 72 minutes but only 40 remain on 35mm. Out
there somewhere, should be a full length version on 16mm and possibly sections
on 9.5mm. Nothing has turned up so far.
There is a long term plan with us to deposit copies of all our footage with
the IAC's library and "The Adventures Of Maya" might be included but we have
to do a second reprint after Kodak made a fine mess of the first reprint
with those famous blue marks that have trashed many other peoples' films
as well.
The 9.5 material is only retained by CFT and as yet we do not have full
ownership of the footage although we are able to use it fairly freely with
consideration to persons on the film who are still alive.
Of course as we are at the low to non-existant end in financial terms, the
process of transferring film to film will be mostly when the mood and spare
cash take us.
Whether our films go to archive or not I hope you will all take note that
CFT is willing to show footage when practically possible and through the
coming years the public will get the oportunity to see the old films. Cinema
For Thurso celebrates 20 years this November and there are plans for a lot
of our material to be shown that month. So if you want to see our stuff you'll
have to head for Thurso.
If you don't know how to get here ask an old soldier and he will guide you
to London Euston to board the Jelico Express.