THE END
It`s quite interesting that many amateurs still put this at the end of their
film to tell the audience that the film is actually finished. Why do we need
to be told this? Is it not obvious?
This seemed to be the general policy of older (40s/50s) cinema films but
now at the cinema or on video/DVD the end credits just roll.
I have not put a "THE END" on a PHASE 4 film for years, in case anyone has
taken notice. To me, the story is told and it comes to an end. Then we have
credits and the year the film was made... and black! Surely a much more polished
idea.
I have also taken to the idea of (usually) not listing the actors/ performers
at the start. This helps to keep up the air of mystery as to what is going
to happen next. For example, if we say there are three actors in the film
and three have already appeared, we know the story must be resolved without
the intervention of another character.Could be a big disadvantage with a
thriller especially!
I think we should discourage the use of "THE END" as much as possible.
THE END OF THE POSTING. Ken.
THE END
-
AN
Re: THE END
"Ken Wilson" <forums@theiac.org.uk> wrote:
to
mutter all together as one, "Thank Christ for that!"
That is why I have put and will continue to do so, the end title up.
When "THE END" title of an amateur film comes up it enables the audienceTHE END
It`s quite interesting that many amateurs still put this at the end of their
film to tell the audience that the film is actually finished. Why do we
need
to be told this? Is it not obvious?
to
mutter all together as one, "Thank Christ for that!"
That is why I have put and will continue to do so, the end title up.
Albert..."In the beginning there was (projector) light!"THE END OF THE POSTING. Ken.
-
Reg Lancaster
Re: THE END
When I started to make films with my Dutch pal Vladimir Murtin in the early
eighties he, as a former Czech, was absolutely fanatical about NOT using
"The End" on films, which was very much the norm then.
I'd noticed it on his own films but when it came to the end of our first
combined venture and we were ready to release it, I dug out my "The end"
stock reel which we all had in the Super 8 days, and prepared to cut off
a title.
"No way" insisted Vladimir. I went along with him, but asked why did he get
so up tight?
"For thirty years, I had to watch Russian films," he muttered, "and when
the film came to an end, it would say, in Czech, after whatever the Russian
end title said, "That is the end of the film." He always felt that if there
had been room, it would have said "put your hats and coats on, for it is
cold outside, for it is winter- time," as well.
Mind you, first time entered a film in a non club competition, a documentary
about the corner of a field through the seasons, the judges faulted it for
having tricked them with a sunset in the middle of the film. We thought that
was the end, they wrote, even though it was followed by a moon, and a sequence
of nocturnal animals moths and spiders. The convention in those days was
sunset equals the end of the movie, and they'd started to write their comments
when they saw the red sky!
Thank Heaven we have moved on, a bit.
Reg Lancaster
8607
eighties he, as a former Czech, was absolutely fanatical about NOT using
"The End" on films, which was very much the norm then.
I'd noticed it on his own films but when it came to the end of our first
combined venture and we were ready to release it, I dug out my "The end"
stock reel which we all had in the Super 8 days, and prepared to cut off
a title.
"No way" insisted Vladimir. I went along with him, but asked why did he get
so up tight?
"For thirty years, I had to watch Russian films," he muttered, "and when
the film came to an end, it would say, in Czech, after whatever the Russian
end title said, "That is the end of the film." He always felt that if there
had been room, it would have said "put your hats and coats on, for it is
cold outside, for it is winter- time," as well.
Mind you, first time entered a film in a non club competition, a documentary
about the corner of a field through the seasons, the judges faulted it for
having tricked them with a sunset in the middle of the film. We thought that
was the end, they wrote, even though it was followed by a moon, and a sequence
of nocturnal animals moths and spiders. The convention in those days was
sunset equals the end of the movie, and they'd started to write their comments
when they saw the red sky!
Thank Heaven we have moved on, a bit.
Reg Lancaster
8607
-
Michael Slowe
Re: THE END
"Reg Lancaster" <amlancaster@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
"comments"!
Michael Slowe (Grinding an Axe).
>
Maybe just a bit Reg, but not all that much if you read some recent judgesWhen I started to make films with my Dutch pal Vladimir Murtin in the early
eighties he, as a former Czech, was absolutely fanatical about NOT using
"The End" on films, which was very much the norm then.
I'd noticed it on his own films but when it came to the end of our first
combined venture and we were ready to release it, I dug out my "The end"
stock reel which we all had in the Super 8 days, and prepared to cut off
a title.
"No way" insisted Vladimir. I went along with him, but asked why did he
get
so up tight?
"For thirty years, I had to watch Russian films," he muttered, "and when
the film came to an end, it would say, in Czech, after whatever the Russian
end title said, "That is the end of the film." He always felt that if there
had been room, it would have said "put your hats and coats on, for it is
cold outside, for it is winter- time," as well.
Mind you, first time entered a film in a non club competition, a documentary
about the corner of a field through the seasons, the judges faulted it for
having tricked them with a sunset in the middle of the film. We thought
that
was the end, they wrote, even though it was followed by a moon, and a sequence
of nocturnal animals moths and spiders. The convention in those days was
sunset equals the end of the movie, and they'd started to write their comments
when they saw the red sky!
Thank Heaven we have moved on, a bit.
Reg Lancaster
8607
"comments"!
Michael Slowe (Grinding an Axe).
>
-
Dave Watterson
Awards and The End
I take the point about modesty preventing people reporting the number of awards
...
Stay as nice and humble as you are, guys!
-------------------
As to the end ... it is a great failing in many amateur performers
and speechmakers that they do not cue the audience when to applaud
at the end of their talk. Usually people, being generous, want to
do so but hesitate in case the speech is not over.
US Presidents can mark the cheer-here point by saying "God Bless America!"
The rest of us have to resort to a rousing climax and a slight bow.
In movies ... I think it depends on the nature of the piece. Sometimes
a firm, definite "The End" provides such a "cheer-point". In most cases
as Ken says you just need to fade to black and/or run the credits. The
worst ending is where the audience wonders if the projector just broke
down ...
I kinda like the "Vladimir" end title saying "Off you go. Drive safely.
Don't forget to put the cat out."
There are a few comic end credits which slip into the interminable lines
of assistants comments like "If you had left the theatre when the
credits started you would be home by now." One movie even interspersed
recipes with the credits.
The end issue is all tied up with the question of structure in movies which
is
one of my own hobby-horses. If the structure is in place it is probable
that the movie will come to a fairly natural and obvious conclusion.
My favourite end credits are from Godard;s "Le Weekend" - a virtuoso
curiosity of a movie. Successive title cards read:
"Fin"
"Fin du Con"
"Fin du Conte"
If you don't speak French, let's just say that the middle one might be
modestly translated as "Farewell to that awkward customer."
Dave "thankyou and goodnight" Watterson
...
Stay as nice and humble as you are, guys!
-------------------
As to the end ... it is a great failing in many amateur performers
and speechmakers that they do not cue the audience when to applaud
at the end of their talk. Usually people, being generous, want to
do so but hesitate in case the speech is not over.
US Presidents can mark the cheer-here point by saying "God Bless America!"
The rest of us have to resort to a rousing climax and a slight bow.
In movies ... I think it depends on the nature of the piece. Sometimes
a firm, definite "The End" provides such a "cheer-point". In most cases
as Ken says you just need to fade to black and/or run the credits. The
worst ending is where the audience wonders if the projector just broke
down ...
I kinda like the "Vladimir" end title saying "Off you go. Drive safely.
Don't forget to put the cat out."
There are a few comic end credits which slip into the interminable lines
of assistants comments like "If you had left the theatre when the
credits started you would be home by now." One movie even interspersed
recipes with the credits.
The end issue is all tied up with the question of structure in movies which
is
one of my own hobby-horses. If the structure is in place it is probable
that the movie will come to a fairly natural and obvious conclusion.
My favourite end credits are from Godard;s "Le Weekend" - a virtuoso
curiosity of a movie. Successive title cards read:
"Fin"
"Fin du Con"
"Fin du Conte"
If you don't speak French, let's just say that the middle one might be
modestly translated as "Farewell to that awkward customer."
Dave "thankyou and goodnight" Watterson
-
AN
Re: Awards and The End
"Dave Watterson" <dave.movies@virgin.net> wrote:
in the west"
or "As the sun sinks slowly in the east" and so on. On of my successfull
films not only had "THE END" on it, but said too, "and they all lived happily
ever after?"
that statement being a real laughable punchline in the film's previous context.
I like the sun sinking in the west as the cowboy rides off/ the camera tracking
away from the kissing couple/the ships wake being shown as it sails away/the
train departing from platforn two. All old fashioned but the stuff of magic
used correctly. For that is what it all comes down to eventually as you
say Dave, structure, and I would add imagination to create those magical
moments, all so few alas.
Albert...conjuring up some magic!
A science fiction film/story could well end, "As the suns(!) sink slowlyThe end issue is all tied up with the question of structure in movies which
is
one of my own hobby-horses. If the structure is in place it is probable
that the movie will come to a fairly natural and obvious conclusion.
in the west"
or "As the sun sinks slowly in the east" and so on. On of my successfull
films not only had "THE END" on it, but said too, "and they all lived happily
ever after?"
that statement being a real laughable punchline in the film's previous context.
I like the sun sinking in the west as the cowboy rides off/ the camera tracking
away from the kissing couple/the ships wake being shown as it sails away/the
train departing from platforn two. All old fashioned but the stuff of magic
used correctly. For that is what it all comes down to eventually as you
say Dave, structure, and I would add imagination to create those magical
moments, all so few alas.
Albert...conjuring up some magic!
-
Atta Chui
Re: Awards and The End
Why does it help to show "the end" at the end of the film if the end of the
film does not make itself obvious that it's the end?
If the film does not tie up all the loose ends, and therefore it does not
give the audience a satisfactory ending, then why would the film be a better
one if it says "the end"?
To tell those chaps who just wake up that - yes, the film has ended?
There are worse things you can do though: a Hollywood film may end with a
rolling credit, together with a not-quite-relevent pop song that serves little
as the end of the film, but probably helps the sale of the CD full of songs
"inspired" by the film.
For us, just cut to credits with maybe 2003(c) at the end should make it
pretty obvious that the filmmaker intends to end the film there.
Take this comment lightheardedly: if you see audience fail to clap their
hands at the end of a film, there are probably other problems with the film
itself, not just because it hasn't got a "The End".
There are many ways to end a film. "The End" is one of them.
Atta
film does not make itself obvious that it's the end?
If the film does not tie up all the loose ends, and therefore it does not
give the audience a satisfactory ending, then why would the film be a better
one if it says "the end"?
To tell those chaps who just wake up that - yes, the film has ended?
There are worse things you can do though: a Hollywood film may end with a
rolling credit, together with a not-quite-relevent pop song that serves little
as the end of the film, but probably helps the sale of the CD full of songs
"inspired" by the film.
For us, just cut to credits with maybe 2003(c) at the end should make it
pretty obvious that the filmmaker intends to end the film there.
Take this comment lightheardedly: if you see audience fail to clap their
hands at the end of a film, there are probably other problems with the film
itself, not just because it hasn't got a "The End".
There are many ways to end a film. "The End" is one of them.
Atta
-
Dave Watterson
Re: Awards and The End
Another of my favourite commercial movie endings is from
"Electra Glide in Blue" by James William Guercio.
We are in Monument Valley - majestic, red-and-ochre vistas
familiar from thousands of Westerns. A two-lane blacktop
runs across it. Our hero, a good guy and motorcycle cop has
been chasing some hippies in a VW camper van to return their
property but they think he is just another cop hassling them
and having reached the end of their tether ... shoot him.
He tumbles from the Harley and ends up slumped astride the white
line as the bike crashes off into the desert. Music swells.
The camera slowly tracks back along the road leaving this tiny
speck of humanity lying there.
The audience starts to leave their seats ... but there are no
credits. The camera keeps tracking back, the music swells louder
and we gradually notice a buzzard circling high above. As it
homes in on the body the frame freezes, but the music adds a new
layer ... an enormous choir begins "God Bless America" and the
image stays .. and stays ... the audience is rooted to the spot
half in and half out of their seats ... until finally the credits
begin to roll...
Stunning.
McDave the Awestruck
"Electra Glide in Blue" by James William Guercio.
We are in Monument Valley - majestic, red-and-ochre vistas
familiar from thousands of Westerns. A two-lane blacktop
runs across it. Our hero, a good guy and motorcycle cop has
been chasing some hippies in a VW camper van to return their
property but they think he is just another cop hassling them
and having reached the end of their tether ... shoot him.
He tumbles from the Harley and ends up slumped astride the white
line as the bike crashes off into the desert. Music swells.
The camera slowly tracks back along the road leaving this tiny
speck of humanity lying there.
The audience starts to leave their seats ... but there are no
credits. The camera keeps tracking back, the music swells louder
and we gradually notice a buzzard circling high above. As it
homes in on the body the frame freezes, but the music adds a new
layer ... an enormous choir begins "God Bless America" and the
image stays .. and stays ... the audience is rooted to the spot
half in and half out of their seats ... until finally the credits
begin to roll...
Stunning.
McDave the Awestruck
-
Ned C
Re: Awards and The End
"Dave Watterson" <dave.movies@virgin.net> wrote:
Bryce, an easy drive to to the N Rim and Monument Valley and a vey fine canyon
10 minutes down the road, let me know I still have a PAL VX1000,
Ned C
If you need red rock footage - we are 45 minutes from Zion, 2 hours fromWe are in Monument Valley - majestic, red-and-ochre vistas
familiar from thousands of Westerns. A two-lane blacktop
runs across it.
Bryce, an easy drive to to the N Rim and Monument Valley and a vey fine canyon
10 minutes down the road, let me know I still have a PAL VX1000,
Ned C
-
AN
Re: Awards and The End
"Ned C" <red@rocks.net> wrote:
land it's right outside my front door.......
.....and outside the back door too.
Albert...."And did those feet in ancient time....."
Ned, if you need any shots of England's green and pleasant"Dave Watterson" <dave.movies@virgin.net> wrote:
We are in Monument Valley - majestic, red-and-ochre vistas
familiar from thousands of Westerns. A two-lane blacktop
runs across it.
If you need red rock footage - we are 45 minutes from Zion, 2 hours from
Bryce, an easy drive to to the N Rim and Monument Valley and a vey fine
canyon
10 minutes down the road, let me know I still have a PAL VX1000,
land it's right outside my front door.......
.....and outside the back door too.
Albert...."And did those feet in ancient time....."
-
Ned C
Re: Awards and The End
"AN" <AnimatioN@btopenworld.com> wrote:
inferior NTSC so have to shoot on that or transcode.
Thanks all the same,
Ned C
Thanks, I will be in England Sept/Oct and for use here I am stuck with the
Ned, if you need any shots of England's green and pleasant
land it's right outside my front door.......
.....and outside the back door too.
Albert...."And did those feet in ancient time....."
inferior NTSC so have to shoot on that or transcode.
Thanks all the same,
Ned C