Learning Curve - Singapore

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John C
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Learning Curve - Singapore

Post by John C » Sat Oct 06, 2012 7:20 am

I have tried to take on Board the helpful comments made on my previous film and I now post three subsequent films to see how I have got on.
[Following a suggestion from Tim Stannard, I have split this topic into separate threads for each film. - Editor]

Both films ,as most of my films are, shot on Holiday.

The first is about a Charity evening on a Tall Ship, Antigua.

The second film is about Singapore

The third is about Enamelling Beads.

Awaiting with baited breath,

John C

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g7Jbh6tzvg0[/youtube]

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TimStannard
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Re: Learning Curve

Post by TimStannard » Sun Oct 07, 2012 8:08 am

John, those three vdeos are coming up as "private". Please change the status to "Unlisted" which means anyone with the specific link can see it, but it won't be seen by idle browsers.
Tim
Proud to be an amateur film maker - I do it for the love of it

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FredD
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Location: The New Forest, Hampshire.

Re: Learning Curve

Post by FredD » Sun Oct 07, 2012 7:56 pm

I think that you have to study and learn a lot more about SOUND.
I found your material difficult to watch because the sound tracks were so poor.
Picture wise things could be improved a lot,
Also editing could be a lot 'sharper'.
Sorry to sound so negative, but that is how I was left feeling after watching.
Keep at it. you can only improve ! :)
"Films are never released, they escape !" Ben Burtt

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TimStannard
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Re: Learning Curve

Post by TimStannard » Sun Oct 07, 2012 8:09 pm

Singapore (posted separately to make it clear which comments refer to which film)
This was nicely structured with a well researched and well written script with images which illustrated the spoken material.
I was listening with headphones and it was immediately apparent your voicover was on the left channel only. This is normal when recording with a moni mic, but take a look in your software and see how to mix it so it appears central in the stereo spectrum.
I found the background music was up a touch too high. See if your software will allow you to "dip" the volume of the music track when you speak. It's amazing how quiet a music (and ambient) track can be,yet still remain audible under a voiceover - try listening to professional documentaries for this specifc point.

My only criticism really is that, in common with many "novice" travelogues, it told us lots of history and facts about the place but absolutely nothing of the impression it left on you - the feeling you had of the place, the people, the architecture etc. Anyone, given enough time and enthusiasm, can research a place and tell us the same facts an figures - but only you can tell us your experience and this is what will make your film unique.

Incidentally - it's easy for me to say that, much harder to do. Making something personal is something I struggle to do, but one day I'll achieve it as I believe it makes for a much more interesting film.
Tim
Proud to be an amateur film maker - I do it for the love of it

John C
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Joined: Mon Mar 30, 2009 2:48 pm

Re: Learning Curve - Singapore

Post by John C » Tue Oct 09, 2012 3:22 pm

Dear Fred D,

I have been looking for information on sound and have Audition 1.5 but the terminology is a new language all of its own.

Can you point me in the direction of some Tutorials that cover film making issues?

KR John C

John C
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Re: Learning Curve - Singapore

Post by John C » Tue Oct 09, 2012 3:25 pm

Dear Tim,

I use Edius 6 and the software can do what you suggest so I will work on cemtering the sound track. In fact i vaguly remember reading that there is a feature that centers it for you.
Thank you for your advice.

KR

John C

john ingham
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Location: Exmouth

Re: Learning Curve - Singapore

Post by john ingham » Sat Oct 13, 2012 8:29 am

Hi John, I can not comment as an expert but more as a viewer, and also as a new comer to the film making hobby,
I too am making many mistakes , audio being the main problem, its always easier to see someone else's mistakes than your own ...

what comes over most is the level of music to the level of your voice, this makes it hard to listen to you describing things....the music need to lower when your speaking, saying that, It does not need to go up and down like a fiddlers elbow
as for the camera work, like myself there are a few little issues, and believe me i make the same mistakes too, one that jumped out at me was the shot of the 1st hotel, you seemed to be shooting under some sort of canopy and included it in the latter part of the clip
that was distracting,and took the focus away from the hotel shot

I do realise this is a holiday film and not a film where you set each and every shot up,

keep up the good work , as learning can be as exciting as watching ....

and don't forget..rules are there to be broken,

kindest regards
john
Keep trying, for one day you will get it right

col lamb
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Location: Preston, Lancashire

Re: Learning Curve - Singapore

Post by col lamb » Sat Oct 13, 2012 11:41 am

John

If you have a look at my area on Vimeo you will find a couple of movies that I made when we visited Singapore in 2009

go to www.vimeo.com and type in "colin lamb" including the quotation marks in the search box

You will find movies on Raffles Hotel and the Singapore Flyer

You may find it useful to compare how a different take on the holiday type of movie gives a bit of variation rather than a travelogue type

Also have a look at the movie Hong Kong Garden, which shows the hustle and bustle of the City and yet tranquility is just a short walk away

When I am on holiday and want to make a movie I always make sure I have a steady shots as possible aim for each clip to be no less than 10 seconds, panning very slowly, no zoom, no changes of direction, 3x more close ups than you think. and plenty of people shots, whilst videoing be aware of the sound, if you want to use the sound such as I did of the instrument player in Raffles, let the camera roll for the full duration, that way you can in editing overlay different video over the sound. The stall holder in the movie was very happy to show off his instrument playing skills especially as we have just bought one of his CD's

To give an example, street theatre where you want to capture all the sound, film all the performance, then when they are doing another performance film the crowd reactions avoiding the performance, you can then overlay the reactions over the original performance.
Col Lamb
Preston, Lancashire.
FCPX, Edius6.02, and Premiere CS 5.5 user.
Find me on Facebook, Colin Lamb

John C
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Re: Learning Curve - Singapore

Post by John C » Mon Oct 15, 2012 10:51 am

Col,

Thank you for your guidance. You also gave me an additional pleasure in showing me Chester, a town I knew well in the 1950's and Chester Cathedral where my nephew was ordained some years ago.

What audio settings do you use in Edius, I am confused about chanels and all the different choices?

KR

John C

col lamb
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Location: Preston, Lancashire

Re: Learning Curve - Singapore

Post by col lamb » Mon Oct 15, 2012 8:44 pm

John

Some camcorders have five channel stereo, for me the best thing you can do with these is to switch them to stereo if you can. The Chester movie used the Canon 7D DSLR inbuilt mike which is practically useless so in that most of the sound is via the music background

So in Edius (and other editing software) make sure that the source video and audio format matches the preset for the project, it really is that simple. Most AVCHD camcorders record audio in AC3 but some use linear uncompressed PCM

When editing I generallly have 3 VA tracks for the captured video and audio, another seperate track only for commentary and yet another seperate audio track only for background music. This way I can have a long video sequence on a lower track number and I place the short duration cutaways on the tracks above, during playback the editing software shows only the video on the higher numbered track but plays all the audio, if you have not tried this then can I suggest that you give it a try as it is a very useful technique

I always trim every video file so that I can place an audio fade between each clip, it makes the sound change between clips less defined. I only do this after all the video has been trimmed and placed in the timeline/sequence

Then I go through each clip and adjust its individual volume until I get the same sound pressure level throughout the whole movie, then I can use the audio mixer to adjust the whole track sound level to suit

Add the commentary, now I do not use the PC to capture the commentary sound, in a room with plenty of soft furnishings and hence low reverberation use your camcorder with a decent add on mike to record the commentary in smallish sections, capture the files to the PC and place on the timeline, unlink the video and audio and delete the video

The sound will be cleaner and if your mike has a foam windshield and furry cover then that is even better

Then add any background music to its own track

Add the audio transitions to the clips

Use audio mixer to get the levels right

Now if you have used more than one track for your video, if you wish to boost the sound at any point things can get a bit messy

A better technique is to use one sequence for editing your captured video/audio files

Create a new sequence and from the bin window drag the first sequence onto this second sequence, you will see that sequence one is on one track and hence the audio will be so much easier to adjust

In the second sequence add your commentary and music

Using this editing technique any changes to commentary and music can be very easily changed, you can also have a third sequence again with sequence one dragged into it but this time with a different commentary and different background music

Sorry if I have gone on a bit but the better an editor knows his software the easier the editing process and hence the creativity can come to the for

Good luck
Col Lamb
Preston, Lancashire.
FCPX, Edius6.02, and Premiere CS 5.5 user.
Find me on Facebook, Colin Lamb

John C
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Joined: Mon Mar 30, 2009 2:48 pm

Re: Learning Curve - Singapore

Post by John C » Tue Oct 16, 2012 8:46 am

Dear Col,

Experience makes things sound so simple. What a wonderful checklist for sound editing.

Thank you.

Why do you not publish that for beginners like myself?

So sorry I cannot be at Grange but I will catch up with you sometime and provide some sustenance!

KR

John C.

col lamb
Posts: 680
Joined: Tue Oct 16, 2007 8:51 pm
Location: Preston, Lancashire

Re: Learning Curve - Singapore

Post by col lamb » Thu Oct 25, 2012 11:42 am

John

Many thanks for the kind words

Regarding publishing the process, I did just that a few years ago when a large number of members started out editing (I have been editing on a PC since about 1994).

I produced a series of video tutorials that many IAC members found useful at the time

As it happens I am in the process to making some more which will be on my Vimeo site in due course.

On Vimeo there is a plethora of video tutorials available, some great some medioce and some dire.

The problem of video tutorials today is that there are so many editing systems, in the early days there was Premiere, Media Studio and other more expensive ones and as Premiere and MS were very similar one Premiere tutorial worked with minor tweaks in MS, today there are so many varieties of editing software each with there own quirks

I Use Premiere and Edius and for sound both are very similar with Premiere having a considerable edge so I will produce a "how to do sound" video in due course

I need to get on with these as I have a couple of presentations to local clubs to make in the new year

In the north west the IAC used to do full training weekends and I was often bribed into hosting the weekend, initially it took three months of free time work to prepare all the slides and videos, today it is so easy to capture the PC screen

Sorry to babble on but I got in full flow
Col Lamb
Preston, Lancashire.
FCPX, Edius6.02, and Premiere CS 5.5 user.
Find me on Facebook, Colin Lamb

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