Music and Picture Copyright and the IAC Competition

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Ian Gardner

Music and Picture Copyright and the IAC Competition

Post by Ian Gardner » Sat Oct 29, 2005 7:25 pm

Dear all,
Could any of you help me. On the details for this competition...

Our club has a IAC Number. I on the otherhand do not but I am secretary for this club. Can I still enter the comp under Member or would I have to join Myself?

The film is a sort of funny film but I would put it in the catogory of story. I have used a few bits of music in it that are copyright ie say a snip of Frankie goes to Hollywood and 3 lions. If I included credits for these at
the end titles, would this be acceptable? Would I be shot and called a pirate?

In the kitchen shot, in the background there might be a washing up bottle say `Fairy Liquid`! Would I have to edit this out?

I like the film as it is. I could do a major re-edit with music. I would have to learn to play the guitar and piano won`t I! All by January?

Any help and ideas would be most helpful.
You don`t know how good you are until to try. They might think I`m *rap!

Thanks Guys,
Ian Gardner.

Dave Watterson

Re: The IAC Comp Closing Date 4th Jan 2006

Post by Dave Watterson » Sat Oct 29, 2005 10:59 pm

"Ian Gardner" <forums@theiac.org.uk> wrote:
Our club has a IAC Number. I on the otherhand do not but I am secretary
for this club. Can I still enter the comp under Member or would I have to join Myself?
MAIN POINT: The IAC competition is open to members and to non-members.

The only difference is that non-members pay a two pound handling charge which members do not
have to pay.

Club membership only applies to club films - i.e. made by the group. Individuals who want to enjoy the benefits of IAC membership need to join themselves. Elsewhere on http://www.theiac.org.uk you can find lots of good reasons to join.
I have used a few bits of music in it that are copyright ... If I included credits for these at
the end titles, would this be acceptable? Would I be shot and called a pirate?
Shot possibly. Not by IAC but by the music industry.

You need a special set of licences to record any commercial music - unless it is the kind specially made for movies - usually costing £30 or more per CD. But if you join IAC yourself you can get the necessary licences to cover most music you use for your own films.

Where you use an identifiable artist you need permission from the Musicians Union too - but they are usually very helpful and rarely make a charge for genuine amateur use. It is complicated - and once again there is a whole section on the main website where you can read the frightening details.

BUT - in the UK the music industry especially hates you showing the details of the music used. (I think they are worried you might try to promote a film on the basis of the band or something.) So do NOT list them. Oddly enough other countries have exactly the opposite rules and MUST show band names.

Score 0 out of 10 to the music industry for being consistent world-wide.
In the kitchen shot, in the background there might be a washing up bottle say `Fairy Liquid`! Would I have to edit this out?
No. We have never had anyone worry about that sort of thing. If your whole film consisted of a series of record sleeves the painters/photographers who created those sleeves might be upset, but that's different. Do be careful if you make a film where the washing-up liquid turns nasty and makes people green ... that could be considered as defaming the product. In that case create your own label and don't use a bottle with a distinctive shape.

As to what the judges think of your film ... you'll find out.

Every entry gets a written critique from the judges. That is the case for all the three major festivals in Britain (IAC, Cotswold and Guernsey). The IAC one also sorts all the entries it gets into colour-coded bands: blue for beginners, bronze for promising, silver for very good and gold for "awe shucks this is amazing"! So if you enter in 2006 and get blue, you enter another movie in 2007 and hope you have improved to bronze and so on.

Cheers

Dave

Ian Gardner

Re: The IAC Comp Closing Date 4th Jan 2006

Post by Ian Gardner » Sun Oct 30, 2005 10:43 am

So Dave, in your opinion...

Do I keep the film as it is, enter it, and risk being done?

Would it be disqualified for having copyright material?

It would be ashame if I had to redo it. Because I`ve heard copyright free music. Have you!!!!!!!?

I think our club only has one cd because I always seem to hear the same song!!!

The Music Industry seems to shoot its own foot. If they let amateurs use it then the people seeing the films may say `Thats a nice piece of music, I`ll try and buy that`. If there is credit as well then all the easier!

Thanks for any more advice you may have.

See Yer........

Ian Gardner.

Michael Slowe

Re: The IAC Comp Closing Date 4th Jan 2006

Post by Michael Slowe » Sun Oct 30, 2005 2:27 pm

Ian, do not get too hooked up on the copyright issue, I relied on the IAC Scheme for the last 30 years and during the course of that time had some pretty high profile films, some even making television.

However recently I must admit to looking into the copyright free situation and encountered an outfit called audio network plc. I was amazed at the range of their library (they supply music for many professional production houses). I am choosey about the music I use for my films, as other users of this forum will testify,
and my latest film (Melissa, currently featured elsewhere on the IAC site) has only audio network material. I agree with you that most music advertised as copyright free is dreadful "wallpaper" and you have to take the trouble to be selective. For now, join the IAC and enrol in their scheme is my advice.

Ian Gardner

Re: The IAC Comp Closing Date 4th Jan 2006

Post by Ian Gardner » Sun Oct 30, 2005 2:46 pm

I sent an email to the IAC regarding this matter and I may join it myself.

My club belongs, but that is no use to me as a contributer. To do it properly may be a bit too costly and not worth it. Membership is no problem but all the licencees I need make it a bit perfectic!

Composers and performers need a licence. The CD producers need theirs and a licence is needed for pubic display and for people to watch it. I recon a couple of hundred quid to do it legal! This puts it into a league of Pro in my opinion! The video only cost about 8 quid! And that was for a black suit that I destroyed!

Ian Gardner.

Dave Watterson

Copyright costs - but not too much !

Post by Dave Watterson » Sun Oct 30, 2005 9:18 pm

"Ian Gardner" <ian@gardner44.freeserve.co.uk> wrote:
The video only cost about 8 quid!
And 8 quid is more than the copyright licences will cost you, Ian !

At the moment the full set of licences costs IAC members seven pounds 17 pence. That should not break the bank and they will last you for a year's film making.

I'd recommend joining IAC yourself, getting all the licences and entering the competition. Unless you can get copyright clearance no respectable competition will let you take part.

I certainly agree that a lot of royalty-free music is uninspired. There is another IAC service which helps you use a far wider range of recorded music - check out the music advisory service. Essentially that helps you find suitable music from some of the libraries who supply music for professional film and television work. You can only buy their discs through the IAC.

The best answer is always to do your own music or have someone compose and play it for you - making sure you have an agreement that lets you use their work freely. It's not impossible. Lots of people - young and old - can play musical instruments and just need to be invited. You may have to tactfully turn down some pieces ("Not exactly right for the mood of this film, but I might be able to use it in one I plan for next year" ...) But that way you can music you really like and which fits your film perfectly.

Cheers

Dave

Ian Gardner

Re: Copyright costs - but not too much !

Post by Ian Gardner » Mon Oct 31, 2005 11:08 am

"Dave Watterson" <david.filmsocs@virgin.net> wrote:
At the moment the full set of licences costs IAC members seven pounds 17 pence. That should not break the bank and they will last you for a year's film making.
Thats pretty good! In fact excellent! It should be shouted from the hills!
That is pocket money. That would make it totally legal. You cannot even buy 2 magazines for that. Wow.

An idea for theiac could be to include it in the cost of membership for single members. For example £50 per year all in. That would save alot of hassle.

It looks like I`m joining then! I will also part with my £7.17 pence and get all the licences!
Thanks Dave.

Ian Gardner

Michael Slowe

Copyright Clearances.

Post by Michael Slowe » Mon Oct 31, 2005 4:51 pm

As to the IAC I am sure others will put you right but the expenses are nothing like those you mention.

Apart from the annual subscription the Copyright license is a few pounds, purely nominal, and you get permission to record and dub and you certainly don't have to get more permission from the record producers. In fact with the people I use I do have to pay rather more for worldwide clearance but the IAC scheme is fine for you.

Ian Gardner

Re: Copyright Clearances.

Post by Ian Gardner » Tue Nov 01, 2005 11:30 am

I joined theIAC yesterday! Just waiting now for my membership number! When I get it I will order the 3 licencess. You are right, they come to a total price of £7.17 pence! I could not believe this. This seemed too cheap to me. I still don`t believe it, considering the music industry seem to be a greedy bunch of *******!! But at this price, even the poorest filmmakers can afford this.
Well done to the IAC for organising this. Excellent.

Ian Gardner

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